Waist size, bmi and diabetes risk

Andrew Colvin said:

oh yes the boney a**e is a pain in the butt literally - I actually sit on a cushion on my computer chair. Apart from that I do like being able to cross my legs again and hold my hands behind my back when I walk.

For me there was a direct correlation between waist and glucose response. I am down to 31" waist from greater than 46" and my BMI is still between 26 and 27.

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Is that your actual waist where your trousers would sit or the waist that the medics measure which appears to mean around the tummy button which to me is top of hips and not our actual waist?

im the same in both places with a lot of loshish skin (such a nice image hey)

Andrew Colvin said:

im the same in both places with a lot of loshish skin (such a nice image hey)

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Brilliant result for you...well done. I guess I just need to keep trying and slim down even more

Gezzabelle said:

Ohhhh I lament the loss of my boobs....from a D cup to a C cup....4 inches gone around my ribs too....so no clothes/bras fit me now At this rate I will be a 32 EGG cup Waited all my life for a decent pair and now they are disappearing by the week

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SO agreed! Fat, and fat on breasts, can be so soft and so appealing. But them's the breaks, - totally agree.
But DOES make wearing one of those sports bra lycra thingies far more comfortable . I practically live in mine. (And yes - bras with the top parts falling in do NOT look good!)

In an ideal world I would live with the decreased attractive cup size , but keep some butt-fat for comfort. My hope is by changing the dietary fat composition of my food I can keep my BG levels lower/more healthy, but keep the comfort of a bit of padding on my person. All part of the big experiment!

AloeSvea said:

The belly button per se is not a good determiner of whether it's your waist proper, but is for some folks like you? who have a low waist. As in this woman on this wiki-how demo

http://www.wikihow.com/Measure-Your-Waist

but not this one -
https://mamathatcould.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/skinny-gal-tape-measure.jpg

But I like this one for figuring out where your waist is - makes sense - (and a real retro look!)
http://www.waistshaperuk.com/pages/size-guide

But I like the fact that this one talks about different ethnic groups and height-waist ratios -
http://www.whyiexercise.com/waist-circumference.html

Who would think it would be so complex? (Bodies, huh?!)

Interesting thinking about which came first - the insulin resistance or the belly fat. Hmmm. Still thinking about it...

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Well with my body shape, short body longer legs, my tummy is tubby in the moderate risk range. 88cm for my waist and 105 for my hips.... means my waist to hip ratio is 0.88. In the the not so good range. I have to lose 6.5cm to have a waist exactly half the size of my height.
So whilst I am losing, due to my body shape my ratio will always be in the at risk category.

As an aside I remember a BBC show with the Dr who lisps, had an ulta sound or something that showed how much fat he had around his abdominal organs even though he was ropey skinny. He has Type2 in his immediate family history and was trying to reduce his risk of developing the disease. Turned out high intensity exercise everyday (going at the stationary bike like a loon for 5mins) increased his glucose tolerance.

So I would say even the best of tape measures, there is something more going on. Like insulin resistance as a genetically determined scenario and due to this the laying of fat noticeable or not, added to other inflammatory systems, stir stuff up that homeostasis, our very own endocrine system can't cope with our diets/exercise/stress levels.... and BOOM Type2 makes you pee for your country. Just my totally non-informed opinion. ;-)

Gezzabelle said:

Ohhhh I lament the loss of my boobs....from a D cup to a C cup....4 inches gone around my ribs too....so no clothes/bras fit me now At this rate I will be a 32 EGG cup Waited all my life for a decent pair and now they are disappearing by the week

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I have the opposite problem I'm afraid.... I started with a Gcup now an F and would love a D. I want to see my feet please....

But I lament my butt, I have slim hips and my weight loss goes from my a$$ first. I want junk in my trunk.... :-(

AloeSvea said:

SO agreed! Fat, and fat on breasts, can be so soft and so appealing. But them's the breaks, - totally agree.
But DOES make wearing one of those sports bra lycra thingies far more comfortable . I practically live in mine. (And yes - bras with the top parts falling in do NOT look good!)

In an ideal world I would live with the decreased attractive cup size , but keep some butt-fat for comfort. My hope is by changing the dietary fat composition of my food I can keep my BG levels lower/more healthy, but keep the comfort of a bit of padding on my person. All part of the big experiment!

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I would have to agree, doing shoulder stands in my yoga classes always made me feel like I'm suffocating under boob flesh. Now the sports bra is able to contain everything, certain activities are easier.

Gravity-Carb said:

I have the opposite problem I'm afraid.... I started with a Gcup now an F and would love a D. I want to see my feet please....

But I lament my butt, I have slim hips and my weight loss goes from my a$$ first. I want junk in my trunk.... :-(

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If only we could pick and choose where to lose the fat from. I am skinny all over....little bum with no fat , slim legs and arms...small REAL waist...you know, the one where your skirt waistband goes lol....the tummy still has that pesky little circle doughnut that refuses to budge although it is much smaller and I have the correct hollow area under my ever protruding rib cage so I am afraid I have done all I can to move the tape measure now and if it isn't enough then so be it. I can't eat any less than I do now. I now fit easily into jeans I bought 15 years ago ( I hung on to them in the vain hope they would fit one day ...and as a plus flares are back in fashion haha ) I would also now proudly wear a bikini which I couldn't and wouldn't have done 4 months ago and on that note...I rest my case.... A boob job is top of my christmas wish list

Gravity-Carb said:

Well with my body shape, short body longer legs, my tummy is tubby in the moderate risk range. 88cm for my waist and 105 for my hips.... means my waist to hip ratio is 0.88. In the the not so good range. I have to lose 6.5cm to have a waist exactly half the size of my height.
So whilst I am losing, due to my body shape my ratio will always be in the at risk category.

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Forget about the hip-waist ratio! At least for health purposes. (I understand that there is a definite attraction-factor in more noticeable hip waist ratios .) (I like Marilyn Monroe's shape too!) But many health markers and so on don't take into account the hip-waist ratio any longer, but do the waist-height ratio, as there is so much human variation around the hip-waist thing, and so it does not always apply.

I am not a natural with numbers, but I lamented to Mr Svea about the fact that even though my hips and waist were declining, back when they were diminishing rapidly, the ratio was not. Well, when you are slim hipped as you are (and I am absolutely too), this is what is going to happen! So said Mr Svea, who actually likes numbers and ratios and so on. Ie the ratio might never change, even though your waist size does get smaller with weight loss. (That is basically my situation.) So I have ignored that figure and been perfectly happy ever since. But the waist-height ratio is a far more satisfying a health marker for we slim-hipped women. (And applies to men too of course, so even more a convenient health marker.)

AloeSvea said:

Forget about the hip-waist ratio! At least for health purposes. (I understand that there is a definite attraction-factor in more noticeable hip waist ratios .) (I like Marilyn Monroe's shape too!) But many health markers and so on don't take into account the hip-waist ratio any longer, but do the waist-height ratio, as there is so much human variation around the hip-waist thing, and so it does not always apply.

I am not a natural with numbers, but I lamented to Mr Svea about the fact that even though my hips and waist were declining, back when they were diminishing rapidly, the ratio was not. Well, when you are slim hipped as you are (and I am absolutely too), this is what is going to happen! So said Mr Svea, who actually likes numbers and ratios and so on. Ie the ratio might never change, even though your waist size does get smaller with weight loss. (That is basically my situation.) So I have ignored that figure and been perfectly happy ever since. But the waist-height ratio is a far more satisfying a health marker for we slim-hipped women. (And applies to men too of course, so even more a convenient health marker.)

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I hate numbers...we seems ruled by them...and more so now we are diabetics As long as the scales are heading in the right direction...down not up and I have to constantly pull UP my size 14 jeans cos they are falling down due to my efforts so far, then I am a happy bunny We can't all achieve the perfect ratios and numbers but we are sure as heck giving a darned good go

Gezzabelle said:

If only we could pick and choose where to lose the fat from. I am skinny all over.... ... A boob job is top of my christmas wish list

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Now Gezzabelle! You don't want to have done all this diet and exercise work to get better from T2D, have quit smoking and all, just to go ahead and die on the operating table getting a boob job?!

AloeSvea said:

Now Gezzabelle! You don't want to have done all this diet and exercise work to get better from T2D, have quit smoking and all, just to go ahead and die on the operating table getting a boob job?!

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Hmmm okay....if you put it like that I will amend the christmas wish list to some padded bras then

Gezzabelle said:

Hmmm okay....if you put it like that I will amend the christmas wish list to some padded bras then

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MUCH safer. And there's beautiful bras to choose from out there .

AloeSvea said:

Forget about the hip-waist ratio! At least for health purposes. (I understand that there is a definite attraction-factor in more noticeable hip waist ratios .) (I like Marilyn Monroe's shape too!) But many health markers and so on don't take into account the hip-waist ratio any longer, but do the waist-height ratio, as there is so much human variation around the hip-waist thing, and so it does not always apply.

I am not a natural with numbers, but I lamented to Mr Svea about the fact that even though my hips and waist were declining, back when they were diminishing rapidly, the ratio was not. Well, when you are slim hipped as you are (and I am absolutely too), this is what is going to happen! So said Mr Svea, who actually likes numbers and ratios and so on. Ie the ratio might never change, even though your waist size does get smaller with weight loss. (That is basically my situation.) So I have ignored that figure and been perfectly happy ever since. But the waist-height ratio is a far more satisfying a health marker for we slim-hipped women. (And applies to men too of course, so even more a convenient health marker.)

Click to expand...

The table I posted above is waist to height. On a general number waist/height [no cheating use the same units ] should be less than 0.5 (0.6 for over 50s)

zand said:

Well I'm pretty sure my waist grew when I started to become insulin resistant. Before then any extra weight was always on my hips/thighs. So to me it's the diabetes that causes the larger waist, not the larger waist measurement causing the diabetes. So yes you could be within a normal BMI range and have a bigger than expected waist measurement because that's the nature of diabetes.

My own experience is that both my waist measurement and BMI are far too high.

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My waist/hip size increased dramatically just a few months before symptoms and diagnosis. First the pounds started creeping on for no obvious reason, especially on my tummy and hips,...then the mysterious groin itch....then the tiredness and fatigue. Five months later.....I was diagnosed as diabetic so the fat on my tummy which at least doubled if not more, was a result of the lead up to diagnosis and not the cause as it obviously appeared because of insulin resistance. It all but announced the impending arrival of diabetes !

Gezzabelle said:

My waist/hip size increased dramatically just a few months before symptoms and diagnosis. First the pounds started creeping on for no obvious reason, especially on my tummy and hips,...then the mysterious groin itch....then the tiredness and fatigue. Five months later.....I was diagnosed as diabetic so the fat on my tummy which at least doubled if not more, was a result of the lead up to diagnosis and not the cause as it obviously appeared because of insulin resistance. It all but announced the impending arrival of diabetes !

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Ah yes. I get sad indeed when I think about the unknowing lead-up to my own diabetes diagnosis - I had no idea all these what I thought unrelated symptoms meant. Now we know.

Andrew Colvin said:

The table I posted above is waist to height. On a general number waist/height [no cheating use the same units ] should be less than 0.5 (0.6 for over 50s)

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Ah yes. Led me to go online and have a look at the Ashwell charts and so on, that you Brits are perhaps more familiar with? Good charts!

http://www.ashwell.uk.com/shapechart.htm

http://www.nii.org.uk/wp-content/up...l-Goodbye-BMI-Hello-waist-to-height-Ratio.pdf

I always knew that my belly fat was the dangerous for health kind, but I had no idea, back in the day (ah - nearly 30 years), about its relationship to insulin resistance. And I had absolutely no idea about insulin resistance and its relationship with carbohydrates. This makes me both sad, and ****** off. (Even though I know my doctor didn't know either.) Too late for me not to be tipped over in to damaged system that takes everything I have got to get better from! But you guys know the story. It's our story.

But now, with all the studies, and all the knowledge we now have, these relationships should be highlighted as part of the run of the mill diabetes education, all over the world. And it is not! Still. Which is appalling. But the existence of this forum, and the diabetes.co.uk generally, and the fantastic high quality of discussion we have about these issues, and educating ourselves, gives me a lot of hope about how we can get this knowledge out there to the general public.