I do note that this site is evangelical about LCHF.
When William Banting first formulated his LC approach to diets, it was used primarily as a treatment for epileptic children not diabetes at all. It is I believe still used for that purpose, But then the Swedish took it to the next level and developed it into LCHF.It's always fun and interesting to engage with you @Oldvatr !.
Well, yes, Sweden is a democratic modern western nation which holds folks and even authorities with differing opinions. I attended a living with diabetes course in Stockholm, and absolutely - the emphasis was on my exciting journey to taking insulin. Complete with up front and personal sessions with syringes. (In NZ, to give us Kiwis credit, the up front and personal was with a blood glucose meter, just to compare and contrast, although NZ emphasises the imho ghastly glycemic load stuff nutritionally.) The session with the (very slender and attractive) Swedish dietician had a very strong long and popular focus on what bread to choose to eat. Even the softer sell (but perfectly good don't get me wrong) mediterranean diet was not mentioned there, although, it is in the printed diabetes info brochures. But I was impressed, as I have always been, with Swedish medical types to accept me not treating them as gods and engaging with them in the science. The chief endo and I agreed to disagree on the relative ease of living with 'dietary restrictions' versus the idea that the HCLF diet was normal and easier and T2 diabetics will all eventually be taking insulin injections, but the 1-1 session we had together was very civil and mutually respectful. (I thought, in fact, as I still do, that perhaps I had a more urgent and pertinent inroad to the answer to that question of relative ease, but that is my own bias.)
Back at the very large medical centre 'ground zero', my diabetes nurse was absolutely fabulous, and held and monitored group Newcastle diets/VLCD with diabetic patients, and accepted different 'ways of eating' as a matter of course as a way of dealing with T2D, and absolutely, LCHF as one of them. (Which is my own attitude - I am not a zealot nor a missionary - each to his own, 'chacun a son gout' and all that, absolutely - where food is concerned. Exercise choice too I might add!)
May I add here too that 'smorgasbord' (without the umlaut and little o dot) is a Swedish word. It's out there, food wise, on the table - you just choose what you want and what suits your wants and needs. Tidy and tasty. Excellent for T2 diabetics when it comes to choosing what to eat to live longer and better etc etc. (Even, and I struggle with this with family members and friends with metabolic dysfunction, when the choice is to go high carb.) (The latter is very pertinent to the pasta issue!)
My understanding and experience is that LCHF has been accepted in the sense, due to legal reasons, due to Dr Dahlqvist, ie the opposite of Poor Professor Noakes, and the Aussie chap who has fallen foul of authorities that I can't recall his name right now. When I lived in Stockholm there were two LCHF stores, and LCHF options in the groovier suburbs cafes were well evident by the time I got very sick and needed and found out about such dietary options. This makes Sweden unique re LCHF, I believe. Regardless of what is online.
I too googled 'LCHF in Sweden' and the best source I could see was the wonderful Kendrick on the topic, as in below. But I am biased.
http://foodmed.net/2016/11/kendrick-sweden-gets-it-right-with-idiot-dietitians-lchf/
When discussing food choices, and in this thread it would be whether or not pasta was a safe choice for us with diabetes, the word 'choice' is absolutely paramount. And my understanding is that LCHF is just one of many choices on the table for us.
In my own food world, the resistant starch, reheated pasta info is what I discuss with folks interested in maintaining non diabetic status, especially when there is an increased risk (my children! for instance. My daughter for instance, uses the resistant starch research to keep eating pasta and being healthy). My own health is too compromised with blood glucose dysregulation to take pasta in my diet in any kind of way. But I have chosen not to take the insulin syringes path mapped out for me. (Wish me luck!)
By the way - I was a pasta queen in my pre T2D life. With factory made pasta sauce. The cheese was just the condiment. Regularly on my menu and at my table. And here I am with severe insulin resistant type two. Sigh.
Do I wish I had known about LCHF when I first started experiencing insulin resistance 30 years ago? Oh yes.
It's nearly lunchtime! I must go eat something that's not going to kill me too quickly, ie low carb. Not pasta.
Given that there is no lack of mainstream information on low cal and low fat diet, I see little need to be apologetic about that.
Brief interjection. You may like to investigate Banting's diet .It still included a fair amount of dry toast (he considered butter contained 'saccherine matter' )some fruit and a 'rusk or two' together with what today would be considered an immoderate amount of alcohol.If you work out his intake, a large amount of his daily calories were from the latter. Unsurprisingly he says he slept well on his diet!When William Banting first formulated his LC approach to diets, it was used primarily as a treatment for epileptic children not diabetes at all. It is I believe still used
I think when Banting was involved (and alive) the classification of diabetes was not as delineated as it is today, There was no proper treatment for T1D in those days until Frederick Banting discovered the way to isolate and produce insulin from animals, and so there was not much progress until later, So the LC part may have been triggered by William, but I think the link to diabetes was probably down to others to experiment with. Having said that, the diet he proposed could well be considered useful for T1D and T2D on insulin as it stood, and indeed there was a pamphlet for nurses printed in the 30's that advocates this as treatment, (shared in another post on this forum last year). So it seems that the LC revolution was accepted back then but got bypassed and demonized more recently as medicine switched to the drugs big time after the war.Brief interjection. You may like to investigate Banting's diet .It still included a fair amount of dry toast (he considered butter contained 'saccherine matter' )some fruit and a 'rusk or two' together with what today would be considered an immoderate amount of alcohol.If you work out his intake, a large amount of his daily calories were from the latter. Unsurprisingly he says he slept well on his diet!
https://archive.org/stream/9213277.nlm.nih.gov/9213277#page/n14/mode/1up
Now back to lurk mode. I agree with many of your points which is why I sit on my hands and very rarely post here anymore.
Zoodles is just right for my version of Piopi diet which is a cross between Mediterranean and a keto diet. Haven't tried konjak root, but have heard of it, Not available in my area, I suspect.Yes we do all have different lives, bodies, taste, and approaches to food, medicine, and other health considerations too sometimes, and this site would be a sorrier place indeed if folks were scared off due to an evangelical approach to what we eat. Quite right @Oldvatr.
I would absolutely love to still be eating pasta - but my ol' diabetic bod cries out, "NO NO NO". The beauty of blood glucose meters is you can see how one's poor ol' diabetic bod takes to different foods, for sure. Even pasta that has been cooled and reheated, alas, for me, is a spiker. Tied into that is I have no problem maintaining a 'normal' body weight now, which was not the case back in my pre-diagnosis pasta-eating days. But I just look at carby food and I put on weight. I am though clearly very insulin resistance prone.
And I definitely make my own red sauces again now, post diagnosis. I found a great pasta substitute, made from konjak root, or I slice up zucchini and fry them in coconut oil (which I prefer to the fake spag actually, but sometimes it's great just to open a packet.) Perfect for mixing in a good serving of sardines or tuna - my fave omega-3 sources, and tasty too. Zoodles (as in zucchini noodles) and red sauce with parmesan on top - still a great go-to dish for any time of the year. Mmmmmm. Mama Mia!
It's surprising what you can find these days.Zoodles is just right for my version of Piopi diet which is a cross between Mediterranean and a keto diet. Haven't tried konjak root, but have heard of it, Not available in my area, I suspect.
Now I know it is also called Glucomanan that makes it easier to find at the normal suspects. Thank you.It's surprising what you can find these days.
https://www.bulkpowders.co.uk/gluco...MI7vDU98-12gIV7rvtCh07Xg8fEAQYAyABEgKfmPD_BwE
The point is that an overly evangelical approach combined with an inability to accept other options is driving some people away from this site.
People we could help without them going down the LCHF route.
People who could help this site take a balanced view.
If people who don't want to follow LCHF are effectively driven away from this site we are all losers.
I agree with your second point about remaining engaged to update our minds as new data becomes available, but I have a problem with your assertion that people leaving do so with closed minds. I am not sure quite what point you are making here. Is it that they leave because their minds are already as closed up to new ideas as those following LCHF are said to be? I think that would be an assumption too far.I disagree.
Those who choose to leave and disengage from the forum are those who have decided to closed their minds and lost out in hearing balanced views.
By continually remaining actively engaged, we have to constantly re-evaluate and re-validate our own experience against others who may have differing views/experiences.
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