Work issue

Hello Tricky. I hope someone is able to provide you with an answer to your question. You are ckearly in a very difficult psition. good luck.

Hi Tricky,

Unless things have been explained to you properly as to why this possible disciplinary route is being taken then your employers need to be more specific. The fact that you refused a sick note from your G.P. does not strengthen your case I am afraid.

Employment and disability laws are a minefield and you need professional help. They may have decided that you are not suitable for the job, regardless of your disability.


If I was in your shoes then I would get in touch with the careline on DUK and ask for their help. They are used to cases like yours.
http://www.diabetes.org.uk/How_we_help/Talk-to-someone/Careline/

Unfortunately most employers now go by something called The Bradford Factor and any time off is awarded points so you would be better off taking the Drs notes rather than odd days, suggest you google it, yes its those pesky yanks again, it is supposed to stop people taking the mick with sickies, himself fell foul of it after he had a bad angina attack the a migraine he couldn't get on top of and landed in hospital, but that's another story, the upshot being is if they are using this factor ask them for details and go back to HR and talk to them about your choices.

Its supposed to help people but it seems to us it only helps employers, now there's a novelty.

They should use trigger points, eg 4 occasions in a year. That applies to everyone, however, if you do have a formal sick meeting make them aware you have a long term condition, which will be with you long term. If all your episodes were diabetes related this should taken into account and they would be counted as one episode that is what's deemed as reasonable adjustments.

How many days off are we talking about. Also join a union if you have one and do take a rep / colleague with you preferably to any meeting. Especially if HR are involved.

In the hospital where I work it's 18 days or 4 occasions in a year for informal counselling. But know the private sector are harsh and 18 days could lead to a warning.

Might be worth reducing your hours if you can afford it. Also ensure you take regular holidays, eg day or did every 6 weeks and get OH advice, it must be a big company to have an OH dept or contract with a provider.

However if you are really sick then your sick and should be off that's the advice I've always given.

Good luck tho.

What they should do and actually do, are we have found two entirely different pigs, himself ended up on enforced reduced hours mind it did mean he was entitled to low income benefit

Tricky said:

Good morning everyone Tricky here I have been a type 2 Diabetic for about a year and am on Metformin and Citalopram and am coping and managing it ok, however whilst my GP who I see on a regular basis is pleased with me, I have had a few as he puts it " rainy days" bad days in other words and therefore have had a fair bit if time off work.Having said that there have been times when my GP has wanted to give me a sick note for 2 weeks and I have turned it down. I work in a office environment and have had sessions with occupational health one of which led me to working reduced hours for a while when I was going through a particuley bad time. I was encouraged to go back to normal working hours after about 3 weeks. last week my boss called me in and basically said that if I take off anymore sick leave in the next 12 weeks it will have to go down the Dicilplinary route ( apparently I am to receive a letter to conform this ) I am aware of the guidelines under what was called the Disability Act now called the Equality Act 2010. I would like to hear some views or advice from friends on line if my Employer is ACTUALY allowed to put me under that sort of pressure, as well know anxiety, stress, and worry is not good for Diabetics and therefore they have not done me any favours with what they have communicated.

Thanks everyone.Tricky

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Hi Tricky, some immediate thoughts:

1) I would not regard this as a disciplinary matter unless they believe that you are malingering and, on the face of it, taking you down the disciplinary path is inappropriate. It looks to me more like what is known as a "capability" matter - i.e. they should more properly be taking action against you because they believe you to be incapable of doing your job effectively due to your repeated absences. They are entitled to do this, but to avoid accusations of discrimination against you they would need to be able to show that the way they are treating you is consistent with the way that they treat other people who are regularly absent from work for one reason or another. So - for example - how do they treat people who are regularly off work because of the need to receive therapy for a medical condition of some kind?

2) It would be worth making the point to them that putting you under stress is actually worsening your b/g levels; if they don't take this on board, put it in writing. If nothing else, it might well be regarded as an aggravating factor if you end up having to bring an unfair dismissal claim against them, and this could be a consideration for them in deciding how to handle the current situation. It's not, however, a magic "get out of jail" card that will render you impervious to your employer taking action against you - there's no such thing, no matter what the barrack room lawyers may tell you.

3) Be honest with yourself: if you were sitting in your boss's chair, would you have difficulties in getting the job done with a member of your team regularly going absent? It sounds as if they have tried to accommodate your condition in the past and - perhaps - that they don't feel they can carry on doing so indefinitely. Sorry if this sounds heartless, but it's one of the factors that is used to judge whether an employer is acting fairly or unfairly.

4) As well as DUK, the Citizen's Advice Bureau can provide some Employment Law advice and (limited) access to a lawyer. Also, if you belong to a union, this kind of thing is exactly what they are there for, so use their resources

5) If they carry on treating this as a disciplinary rather than a capability matter, you may be able to get them for wrongful (as opposed to unfair) dismissal. I would explain the distinction between these two things but it's probably not worth your time or mine for me to do so. If you get to the point where you are taking legal advice, mention it to your brief and s/he will understand the distinction, and why your employer may have tripped up procedurally.

Good luck and let us know how it goes; hope this helps

(I'm not a lawyer, but I have worked in HR for most of my career so I've been on the other side of the desk in a number of similar situations to this....)

Oops sorry: my finger slipped in point 1). What the first line should say is: "I would not regard this as a disciplinary matter unless they believe that you are malingering and, on the face of it....."

Sorry

My original post has now been edited so that it doesn't read like gibberish (well; not so much, anyway).

Bev18 said:

If all your episodes were diabetes related this should taken into account and they would be counted as one episode that is what's deemed as reasonable adjustments.

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I don't necessarily agree that multiple episodes should be dealt with as if one. That merely encourages creating sickness; i.e. employee has migraine/tummy bug or the like, and self-certs a diabetes related issue. I wouldn't expect a diabetic to have almost unlimited sickness leave, without challenge. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not suggesting this is what the OP would do, just pointing out the potential.

@Tricky - You need to familiarise yourself with the sickness policy. It'll probably be on an intranet site somewhere. For all we know, you may already be well in excess of the usual allowances quoted on there, after all, you do talk about "a fair amount of time off work".

As Bev18 suggests, it probably makes a lot of sense to join a union, if you have one available to you, and as Catherine suggests, it could be worthwhile contacting the DUK helpline. Also, ensure you record (in writing) any informal chats you might have with your line manager, and anything you feel may be relevant, even if not relevant to that particular day.

On a more general note, should the matter go to a disciplinary, it doesn't necessarily mean the outcome will be against you. It is possible that the outcome could require your line management to make additional allowances for you, or indeed to accommodate a degree of flexible working.

The concept of reasonable adjustments will depend on your role, hours, working patterns and so on. Some roles can be comfortably covered utilising flexible working, including working from home, whilst others need the individual to be present in their place of work, between set hours. At employment tribunals reasonableness is at the core of the whole process and decision making.

A bit like diabetes itself, but no one size fits all. Good luck.

As an add-on, I agree this is more likely to be a conduct than a truly disciplinary matter, but stuck with that to keep things simple.