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Wot next.

Just an observation (I'm not a T2 )

Meal 1 had 3 foods that were starches breadcrumbs ( could be a little and negligible or a lot just depends on how thick the crust was) plus potatoes and then peas.
Peas are a legume and so would as the Americans say fit in the grains and starchy veg section (I get the same message here in France)
http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fi...lthy-food-choices/non-starchy-vegetables.html
Meal 2 was more balanced and had meat, potatoes and brussel sprouts. In that case you had one small portion of starch; potatoes and a leafy veg; sprouts
Most people whether they say that they eat low carb or not would I think agree that it is better to eat larger portions of non starches (half a plate is the advice here)

edit : Annie below is quite right to draw attention to your other conditions. I don't know If you are taking blood thinners , but if you are, then you need to take advice on changing vegetable intake some veg are far higher in vit K than others.
( I really should be aware of that one, I always worry a bit when I cater for my father because I tend to cook 3 times the amount of veg that he is used to in his normal diet; but being an inveterate veg hater he leaves them anyway!)
 
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You are rather anticipating that Marions nurse will give her poor advice I just feel that is wrong to tell her that before she has even seen her and just add to what is a stressful time for her having just been diagnosed She may need to follow her HCP's advice as she has to be a more careful than some others because of her heart problem and also with any medication she may be on already that is something she needs to discuss with them so we can't really know at this point what will be best for her.
 

Fair enough comment. However, Marion did ask what support she could expect from her nurse, and I did say this varies from nurse to nurse. Of course she will have to take account of her existing heart problems and medication. If I have inadvertently caused Marion extra stress and anxiety, I apologise
 
It's the norm here @AnnieC to bash HCPs and it is like everything else in life. Very few people praise good service but plenty of people form opinions and expect the worse when they read this forum.

I would like to say that I received good advice from Day1 following a heart attack. I was given 90 minutes of time between my G.P. and a qualified DSN. My heart problems were taken into account with regards to my diet, I was given loads of literature, some handwritten for my particular situation and was told to ask all the questions I needed to at my next appointment and was given advice about testing blood sugars when they gave me a meter and test strips.

11 years on I am still following that advice, can still order test strips but do not need many other than a full day of testing once a month and when I am ill. I can phone my DSN if needed and am given all the tests that are recommended. I often wonder if I am one of the lucky ones but as my surgery offers the same facilities to all diabetics then I doubt it. I live in a large, deprived town which has higher levels of poverty and social problems than most and there are a large proportion of diabetics that use my surgery.

Some people here have become judge and jury as to treatment on offer. You will notice that when people query an education course that is on offer then the usual suspects will tell people that it is a waste of time. Wouldn't it be nice if people formed their own opinions rather than rely on people here to decide what is best for them.

It is the same with diet. People are told what they can and cannot eat, even to the point where some people label foods as good and bad. There is an individual response to complex carbs and people can often find that a smaller portion of these foods will be acceptable to them. There is not a blueprint of a diet for diabetics even if some forum members would have you believe there is. A sixteen stone, 6 foot, younger man who is very active is going to need different advice than a nine stone, 5 foot female pensioner who has other health issues and is non ambulant.

Don't eat this, eat more of that, eat the same as me, ignore your G.P, are always one liners on here. If we were all the same height, weight, had the same activity levels, same lifestyle, were all the same age and all ate the same foods there would still be discrepancies in our blood sugar tests. We are not robots and the human body is not a one size fits all. Plenty of complaints about HCPs dishing out the same advice to diabetics but it is happening here too,
 
I have been very grateful for all the advice I have received. Absolutely NO ONE has made me feel in the least bit stressed. This forum has provided me with support and information for a condition that I had no understanding of whatsoever. I am aware that support from the practice in my area may well differ from that offered by others. However I was told by the receptionist on wednesday 'yes, your readings were high and you have type 2 diabetes, the nurse is having a few days off so can you come in on Wednesday'.. she then asked if I was alright so obviously she heard the 'upset' ( I was crying) in my voice. But at no point did she offer me any advice ie someone I could speak to, point me in the direction of literature etc. This is from the practice who MANAGE my heart issues so they no whats goin on with me. Infact what is really desperate is the previous app that I had was to discuss the problems I had handling my anxiety attacks...so u can see that while I really hope that I get proved wrong on wed and get the support I really do need, I don't hold out much hope. Sad.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Good luck with your appointment Marion. I really hope it is a positive one.
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Thanks. I really hope so too. I will keep you posted. I have a list of questions written down to make sure I cover everything. If I miss anything I'm sure you guys will keep me write. I just want to understand what is happening with my own body and do the right thing. On a happy note I walked my dogs and went for a three mile cycle ( not much I know , cycle that it is, but hey I only started on friday ) came and got a 4.6 bg. However last day of hol so having a very small chow mein which will probably undo my good work but after that no more junk food....
 
Thank you Catherine Cherub some one who thinks the same as I do
I have been here a few months now and I find it more and more worrying that some people here seem to think they are the experts when it comes to diet and managing diabetes and that they are qualified to tell others what they must do. It is becoming more and more the LCHF club rather than a general Diabetes forum and if you don't join their club then they are really not interested in what you have to say Newbies are told straight away by those who have no medical training or any qualifications in the managment of diabetes whatsoever.... although many newbies probably don't realise that.... to ignore what their HCP's say as it will be bad advice and that is very wrong to say that to them and are then told they must go on a LCHF diet without ever considering it may be totally wrong for them. Advice is one thing but now some have set themselves up as the experts on what people should do or not and do not hesitate to tell them so.
 
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I think most of us try mainstream health advice first. When that doesn't work we can either keep following what the medical profession tell us or look elsewhere. I followed my doctor's advice and then was accused of not following it because it didn't work. I would prefer to follow what my doctor tells me, because it's easier and means I don't have to think for myself and take responsibility. However I have become disillusioned because the advice I have been given doesn't work. That's why I'm here. If the advice from the forum doesn't work it's still as good as what I was getting from healthcare professionals.

The hospital treatment I had for my heart has been excellent. It's a pity that an interaction of two prescribed blood pressure tablets is known to cause the particular heart problem I had. No forum member has ever given me advice to take these two tablets together.
 
Firstly please let me make it clear I had excellent support at the time I had a heart attack....this however is NOT what brought me to this forum. Diabetes type 2 did. My reference to the heart attack was due to the information online stating that a complication of diabetes could be heart disease. As I already had this it was a considerable cause for concern. In one of my last posts I told how the news of my diabetes diagnosis was broken to me and the lack of guidance received given their knowledge of my medical past. As my appointment with the nurse was 6 days away I turned to this forum to take advantage of other peoples experience of diabetes and to gain some sort of understanding in the interim. I have taken all information received at face value and I am thankful for it. Again as on my previous post I truly hope that the support is there for me when I visit on wed but at this time I don,t what form it will take.
All I wanted from this forum was guidance and I thought I had this until my today when it would I appear that my ignorance has caused a certain amount of back biting..in all probability I will not visit this forum again.
 
I agree it must vary a lot from nurse to nurse my husbands DN for instances did not talk much about diet at all she just said to try and cut out the sugar stuff But still people should not be told... as many have said on here... not to take any notice of diet advice given by DN's. What they tell us is not wrong we just need to tweak it to our own needs just as we would have to with any other diet simply because one diet does not suit all
 

I can only relate my own experience, and what is a common experience on here, and therefore I am careful to phrase it along the lines of "many have had success with LCHF ..." or something similar. Of course I have no medical training and would not claim otherwise, however I do have T2 diabetes, and diabetes is recognised as one of the few conditions that the individual can manage and mitigate by their own actions. I hope I am becoming an expert on my own body and how it responds, and I know that had I followed the dietary advice given by the DN and had I not found this site then I would not have made the improvements I have. I don't think there's any issue that reducing carbs is beneficial, nor that some people have problems with fats, and nobody is forcing anyone to do this thing or that thing. I would hope not anyway. I think to label the site as becoming an LCHF club that is antipathetic to other views is a bit unfair; if some perceive it as such it is only because those who are adherents of LCHF are enthusiastic about it because it has worked for them.
 
I want to thank everyone who gives diet advice on here.

I've picked up vast amounts of information - and I certainly wasn't ignorant before.

The low carbing advice has been particularly excellent, and it has resulted in me actually losing weight (me! losing weight!!!) after years of resigned stagnation. Even my consultant doesn't hold out hope of that! My skin and hair are both in better condition. My digestion has improved. My knees are less stiff... And my BG levels are exactly where I expect, based on my carb intake. That is so precious to me. It has totally transformed my feelings about diabetes. The future is more golden than it has been for decades.

On top of that, the exchange of ideas on nutrition, vitamin deficiencies, vit excess, various symptoms, is brilliant. I have noticed a couple of people preaching, or instructing, but hey, they are few and far between. The helpfulness and camaraderie far outweighs any minor negatives. The posters on here are varied and interesting and offer so much more than other resources available to me (including my local surgery).

There are negative posters, and if people want rid of those negatives, it is easy enough to IGNORE them. There's one person who has posted after me several times now, rather like a terrier snapping at my heels, but I do believe in freedom of speech, and anyway, I often find that certain styles of disagreement actually prove my point.

The links, recipes and studies that are posted are invaluable

Mind you, I do find statements of 'xxxx food is evil' are ridiculous.
But I'm perfectly ok with 'xxxx food wreaks havoc with my BG, you may find the same.'

Please keep it up, folks. You've made a huge difference to me.
 
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I used to work in cardiac/coronary care/A&E and worked as a nurse for several years. I didn't mind the bashers of DN's in general or the negative perception of the whole practice of HCPs in general because people have the right to their own opinion and each has their own story to tell and the experience varies. We all have our learning curve, the experts/endocrinologists still attend lectures, conventions, conduct studies and learn from their patients everyday...and I still got a lot to learn. I went to this forum because it's a good way of learning through the personal experiences of diabetics in general. It's good to have a debate every now and then because you're curious on what the other person has to say, if backed by literature. Best to keep an open mind, take each advise with a grain of salt. Also good to read up on journals or latest news about the condition. There is no cookie cutter solution to everything because each person's response is different to medications and diet---different co morbidities, scenarios, biochemistry.


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No offense taken anyhow, as there are a lot of people who appreciate the HCPs efforts. Having worked there firsthand, there are bad days and good days, it's a very busy working environment sometimes we forget our tea and bathroom breaks because we have to look after patients who are very ill/life and death situationthe simple "thank you's" and "you've saved my life" from patients was encouraging and was enough despite running around 24/7, at our feet the entire time.









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A lot of Type 2's have issues with food, whether they admit to it or not and I hate to see the words, bad, evil, in posts which imply that these foods should never cross your lips. It can make a person feel more guilty than they already do about their eating habits that are often the result of emotional issues. This also comes into play when they "fall off the wagon" and it seems to equate to a sin for some . They feel guilty, worthless and hate themselves for doing it, so it becomes becomes a vicious circle, they binge, confess, feel bad about it and binge again. Type 2 management is not as simple as some would have us believe

Some people post about their journey, repeatedly "confessing to cheating" and are cheered on as though they are running a marathon without anyone understanding why they are "cheating." Tomorrow is another day is a classic and will be repeated the next time. Either their eating plan is not a suitable one for them, it might need tweaking to accommodate them or they have issues around food. Having been told that they will never feel hungry on this plan, they begin to wonder what is different about them that they cannot stick to it. This in turn brings about more guilt and they feel that they are different to other people who seem to be managing well.

Then we get a stock answer to a lot of queries about diets. "Eat more fat". Sounds so simplistic, eat more fat. We all know that fat has to play a part in our diet but does it have to be the biggest component? Some people have an aversion to excess fat in their diet, it makes them nauseous, it upsets their stomach, it puts them off their food, they just cannot eat it. They try to conform with their peers on here but it doesn't work for them. Another chance to feel a failure.

We are all lay people when it comes to diabetes. We may have experience of what works for us but to assume that it will work for everyone else is rather naive and we do not always know what other health issues a particular person has or even what medication they are taking as many members do not include all their medication in their profile or talk about other health issues when they post.

Anyone who has had a heart attack will know that it is life changing and you need to do plenty of research before you decide what is right for you with regard to the management of your diabetes rather than accept the advice of a virtual stranger who has not had a heart attack and who has no responsibility for the advice they give you.
They may be right or wrong but would you be prepared to take that chance?

Your cardiologist can refer you to a dietitian that works for him or your Dr. can refer you to a dietitian that specialises in diabetes if you ask him to. If you choose the latter then you need to make sure that they know your medical history and that there is a dual purpose for you being there. They need to advise you about your diabetes taking into account that you also have a cardio problem. It's a good idea to write down all the questions that you have and take the list with you.
 

Yes i agree @catherinecherub just like a syncopal episode can be brought about by a lot of things, or an arrhythmia can have various causes just like an increase in blood sugar can have various causes too. A simple nausea can be caused by a lot of things.. Or a condition can also be idiopathic...a detailed medical history, careful examination, labs and interaction of meds and proper assessment is needed. Even with medications, response to treatment is variable.

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@catherinecherub I agree with everything you have said in your last post. LCHF does not suit everyone and even if it does suit someone they need to adapt it to find the right diet for themselves. Equally though I could re-read your post putting in mainstream healthy eating advice as the culprit. The same applies. I followed it for years. I felt a failure, guilty, worthless etc. because I was obese and still kept putting on weight. The vicious circle started for me when a nurse and then a doctor accused me of not sticking to the healthy eating diet sheet when I had stuck to it to the letter for months. That's when the term 'cheating' came into my life.

I struggle with LCHF. My favourite foods are carbs. I dislike most proteins except cheese. I like fats. I tried a version of the Newcastle diet which did not work for me. I have tried other diets, some of which have been given to me by doctors......the cabbage soup diet for instance. LCHF coupled with calorie control and exercise have been the only way I have managed to lose a couple of stones. If anyone has any other suggestions which would help me and others like me I would be pleased to hear it.

I accept that I had issues which caused me to become fat in the first place. I have dealt with those now. I really want to lose this weight so I am sticking with reduced carbs because I need to get my BG's under control too. It appear that many who also advocate LCHF have had similar experiences to me, that's why they joined the forum. We can get mainstream advice anywhere and everywhere, but at least here we can discuss other ways of eating too.

So I understand the irritation you feel when we low carbers are over zealous, I've felt the same for years re sensible eating plans and I continue to feel it when people knock the only diet which has worked for me. When I read a post from someone who joins in the middle of a thread with their first ever (and maybe last) post which says 'please help me', I try to do just that. Why would anyone come here for the usual healthy eating advice? They can get that anywhere and will therefore know it already. If it worked surely they wouldn't be asking us for help.
 
Please don't take this back-biting personally, @marion07. Since the day I joined this forum, I've been trying to work out why people with grudges against other posters are allowed to derail threads by newcomers requesting help. Instead of the threads being about the original poster and their request for help, it becomes an infight among various schools of thought. There's a saying in 12 step groups about taking what you need and leaving the rest. I hope you'll continue to visit the forum to find the support you need.
 
Indy51 said:
P I hope you'll continue to visit the forum to find the support you need.
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The value of this forum is in the support. I don't come here to be lectured, to have generalised statements or one line orders barked at me. I find them rude, impersonal and invariably off the mark by posters who appear to just want to be noticed and heard, rather than actually support someone with a specific question or concern. There are a few unqualified posters who seem to think they can diagnose conditions and even prescribe medication which I find dangerous, naive and arrogant.

I stumbled across this forum by chance after a friend who is a health professional, suggested I gave up bread. Googling alternatives for the usual bread substitutes led me to this forum where I made the decision to reduce all carbs generally and I've never looked back. I grasped it instantly, read the forum thoroughly, and after stocking up on the healthy alternatives, made the transition overnight, with no side-effects whatsoever.

When I read generalised statements warning newcomers of carb flu and carb cravings, I offer my experience in which I suffered no ill effects because I believe its important to have balanced support based on personal experience not spouting from text books or hasty Google searches just for the purpose of having a noisy presence on the forum.

The most valuable posters here are educated in their health, and experienced at managing their conditions. They are articulate, usually backed up with their own personal experiences, triumphs and failures, but most importantly, they have compassion and humanity all of which are essential in offering support to newcomers, and to those of us who have made the transition to managing our own condition but who come here for answers to questions and problems we encounter along the way, and for validation and encouragement in our quest.

I agree with @Indy51 - take what you need from here and ignore the rest. There is a wonderful network of support here from genuine folk who are willing to share their own experiences who will encourage and inspire you
 
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