Wrong message - AGAIN

I can't disagree with that as that is the way I eat I am just low on the starchy carbs

Gudrun said:

This was on the BBC website this morning:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28310871

The advice given by Barbara Young, Chief Executive of Diabetes UK is "Eating a healthy balanced diet, low in salt, sugar and fat and rich in fruit and vegetables, as well as being physically active, is the best way of reducing the risk of developing type 2 diabetes”

Low in fat, rich in fruit..... she should know better.

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It may not work for you Gudren but it works for a lot of other people.

You might like to read this article, Pre-diabetes label unhelpful and unnecessary.

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2014-07-pre-diabetes-unhelpful-unnecessary.html



"Labelling people with moderately high blood sugar as pre-diabetic is a drastically premature measure with no medical value and huge financial and social costs, say researchers from UCL and the Mayo Clinic, Minnesota.


The analysis, published in the BMJ, considered whether a diagnosis of pre-diabetes carried any health benefits such as improved diabetes prevention. The authors showed that treatments to reduce blood sugaronly delayed the onset of type 2 diabetes by a few years, and found no evidence of long-term health benefits.

Type 2 diabetes is typically diagnosed with a blood test that measures levels of haemoglobin A1c, which indicates average blood sugar level over the last three months. People with an A1c over 6.5% can be diagnosed with diabetes but the latest guidelines from the American Diabetes Association (ADA) define anyone with an A1c between 5.7% and 6.4% as having pre-diabetes".

It would be interesting to know if people who have been told they are pre-diabetic have any comments about this article.

Gudrun what you do or do not eat is fine for you but that does not mean everyone with diabetes should be doing the same as we are all different as to what we can eat there is no one diet for all of us . The woman gave advice as to a good diet for everyone..not just diabetics.. there would be a lot less obesity if everyone ate like that . Diabetics can just adjust that diet to suit themselves and how it works for them

As I said I do low fat with plenty of fruit and vegetables but low on starchy carbs. Fruit and veg contains all kind of vitamins and minerals that our bodies need that is why we are told to eat as many different colours as we can because the make up of these vitamins and minerals is different in each.
.I am 75 and my husband is 82 and newly diabetic at our age I think we need all the viitamins and minerals we can get, So many elderly people are deficient because of a poor diet so I try to make ours as benificial for us as possible...we don't like taking supplements as you do need to when you don't get it all from a very low LCHF diet

Actually you do get all the nutrients you need from a lchf diet, its mostly green veg, not sure where else you would get it from if you didn't eat these.

I agree with Gudrun.

Following the Eatwell plate is something that some people tolerate, and some people don't.

Tolerating something, staying slim (as increasingly few people are doing) and not developing diabetes is NOT a guarantee of optimum health.

Gudrun said:

"Eating a healthy balanced diet, low in salt, sugar and fat and rich in fruit and vegetables, as well as being physically active, is the best way of reducing the risk of developing type 2 diabetes”.

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Well, I don't have T2, but I suspect that if I followed this advice be so busy coping with the high BG complications from the diabetes I do have that I'd scarcely notice whether I'd added T2 to my diagnosis or not.

What I dislike about this kind of advice is that it perpetuates the story that diabetes is our own fault: the implied message is that if you eat healthily and exercise you're unlikely to get diabetes; therefore if you have diabetes it must be because you ate unhealthily and didn't exercise.

Kate

Edit: Oops. I know this isn't Gudrun's advice but a quotation from an expert, and my quote makes it look as if it's Gudrun's own words. Sorry.

I just want to support the notion that, if you eat a lchf diet, you do not need to take dietary supplements. Nor do you need to take supplements if you avoid fruit, which is largely flavoured sugar, which is why many of us like it so much. Remember the phrase, "nature's candy". Everything you need is in vegetables, proteins and fats.
However, if you avoid carbs and sugars (such as fruit), you may be able to stop taking diabetes medication, or at least reduce it. Some of us will, of course, be able to get by on higher levels of carbs than others.
Sally

There was no mention of the Eatwell plate formula

"Eating a healthy balanced diet, low in salt, sugar and fat and rich in fruit and vegetables, as well as being physically active, is the best way of reducing the risk of developing type 2 diabetes."

There is no mention of carbohydrates which suggests that Barbara Young may well have attended the AGM of her own organisation where they voted 70:30 not to recommend the carbohydrates to diabetics.

We are dealing with that meaningless phrase, "A healthy balanced diet", which means absolutely nothing or just what ever you want it to mean. I don't think any of us would be against anyone eating a healthy, balanced diet, but, for many of us here, the phrase equates with the Eatwell Plate, which is far from healthy or balanced for many of us - nor looking at the girth of the population in general, is it good for far too many people.

Long live the healthy, balanced diet! (i.e. low carb, moderate fat, no sugary things, limited fruit, but that's just my definition.)
Sally

Exactly the same advice given here in France , I've seen it work well (and work well with people who have developed T2)
There is a bit more emphasis on balanced meals than in the UK and a bit more specific advice on proportions and portion sizes.


More important though as a spokesperson she needs to speak from evidence and she does. There are several big trials that show such advice, properly taught, coupled with exercise works.
In a Finnish study there was a reduction in the risk of developing diabetes of 63% over 4 years. (and follow up has shown a sustained reduction in risk over a further 7 years)

The diet in the Finnish study was
Increased intake of complex carbohydrates and vegetables.
<30 en% total fat
<10 en% saturated fat
≥ 15 g fiber/ 1000kcal
Increased intake of whole grain products, vegetables, fruits, low-fat milk and meat, soft margarines and vegetable oils

Advice and help on starting exercise was given.

In the DPP in the US, there was a 58% reduction of risk in the intervention group
The diet in that case was low calorie and <20% fat.
(diets and risk reductions in some of the major studies here: http://www.diapedia.org/downloads/Table 1.pdf

Similar results have been reported in the much smaller scale Newcastle arm of the on going much larger European Diabetes Prevention Study . This is a European collaboration using the Finnish Study design
They have shown a reduction of incidence over 3.5 years of 55%
. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19758428

There are several more studies and in Europe, the US such studies achieve 55- 68% reduction of risk . The exception seems to be in China and India, here they have good results with more overweight subjects but less good results with younger, non obese subjects ( these peoples risk is reduced but not by as much)

Overall the most important thing found in these trials appears to be an increase in activity together with a moderate weight loss.

.

kesun said:

What I dislike about this kind of advice is that it perpetuates the story that diabetes is our own fault: the implied message is that if you eat healthily and exercise you're unlikely to get diabetes; therefore if you have diabetes it must be because you ate unhealthily and didn't exercise.

Kate

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What I dislike about the above quote is that the notion of blame is being introduced where there was none previously. If you want to start picking at the wording then what it’s saying is that the RISK of developing Type 2 diabetes is decreased by eating healthily and exercising. As is the case with obesity, cancer, high blood pressure, high cholesterol……..the list could go on forever.
The major risk factor for T2 diabetes is being overweight and will remain so until the day the very clever boffins in their research labs prove otherwise.

sally and james said:

We are dealing with that meaningless phrase, "A healthy balanced diet", which means absolutely nothing or just what ever you want it to mean. I don't think any of us would be against anyone eating a healthy, balanced diet, but, for many of us here, the phrase equates with the Eatwell Plate, which is far from healthy or balanced for many of us - nor looking at the girth of the population in general, is it good for far too many people.

Long live the healthy, balanced diet! (i.e. low carb, moderate fat, no sugary things, limited fruit, but that's just my definition.)
Sally

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The girth of the general population cannot be blamed on the Eatwell Plate. How many people actually know what that is or adhere to it?

catherinecherub said:

It would be interesting to know if people who have been told they are pre-diabetic have any comments about this article.

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Looking back (with more than a tinge or regret), I would have been very grateful now if, 4 or 5 years ago, someone had taken a little time to impress upon me that my steadily rising BG levels, together with my age, lifestyle and increasing weight, could easily lead to full-blown T2.

As it was, my then GP said nothing. Whether I would have done anything about it is another thing, but I would have appreciated the chance to do so, instead of blithely going on as normal. I think I would have at least read-up about diabetes, of which I knew absolutely nothing mainly because it wasn't in the family and no-one I knew well had it.

Health Education is all to do with raising awareness. Not through scare tactics, but by health professionals individually giving their patients the benefit of their training, knowledge and experience, and this should have meant my GP warning me that, in his experience, I risked developingT2 if I carried on as I was.

I can appreciate the distinction these researchers are making, but I think they're dealing in semantics. I certainly don't believe that the idea of ditching the 'pre-diabetes' message/label will help, least of all in combatting the ever-increasing numbers of T2s.

In Australia there is a proactive intervention This is why and includes the dietary advice which comes straight from the Finnish study
http://www.diabetesaustralia.com.au/Documents/DA/NDW 2012/NDW 2012 Media Report.pdf
I don't know how high profile it is
http://www.lifeprogram.org.au/get-involved/take-a-tour-of-the-life-program

edited to add info

For some time I have had the attitude that if you (NHS) don't want me to worry or get obsessed and you won't supply test strips or meters then why the H*** did you tell me about it in the first place.

In 2001 the doctor had me walking miles and losing weight but didn't clearly explain the implications. Once I escaped from the surgery I relapsed into my old ways and put on weight etc. etc.

For two years after my diagnosis in 2009 nothing of great moment happened except that I ate a lot of pills and some of them didn't treat me kindly.

It wasn't until I was given a meter that things started looking up. Instant feedback on my sugar levels and the ability to do something about it at last. I experimented on myself for six months before I found this forum and joined because people on it made sense.

Looking back from where I am now I am glad I know. Knowing meant nothing for years until I got the meter. I think everyone should own a meter and give themselves a periodic health check. If there is nothing wrong then do as the NHS suggest and don't worry or get obsessed.

I do think that most of the pill taking was a waste of time. I am currently unmedicated.

Well, having just returned from the surgery, having shown my doc the graphs of BG readings over 12, even on not 'heavily carby' meals, I have been told that its all in my head and to eat normally. I protested and said that if I eat normally it makes me feel ill, anything over 8 makes me feel ill. But there you go, its all in my head. So doctors are definitely not pro-active and are basically not interested until the a1c gives them a positive reading. AND I didn't get an answer as to why/how I can consume 75g of pure glucose and not produce anything over 6.3, but a perfectly normal meal, chicken, rice with cream and veg will take me to 10? So, do I trust doctors - NO. I am afraid I am of the opinion that what they tell you most of the time is complete and utter b****cks. When it comes to your body, its up to you to find the best solution that works. So, should they tell pre-diabetics that they are as risk, I don't think most of them would know a pre-diabetic if they fell over one. But it would be nice to be informed then its down to the individual.

Scardoc said:

What I dislike about the above quote is that the notion of blame is being introduced where there was none previously. If you want to start picking at the wording then what it’s saying is that the RISK of developing Type 2 diabetes is decreased by eating healthily and exercising. As is the case with obesity, cancer, high blood pressure, high cholesterol……..the list could go on forever.
The major risk factor for T2 diabetes is being overweight and will remain so until the day the very clever boffins in their research labs prove otherwise.

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Hi Scardoc
Saying that being overweight is a major risk factor for T2d is putting the cart before the horse. Over weight is caused by an unbalanced diet, an unbalanced lifestyle or a combination of both. If as a consequence we contract T2d then it is due to those factors, not by being overweight.