Alcohol as a BG lowering agent

[sunspots]

Is anyone else finding that they can only enjoy anything with carbs if they pair it with an alcoholic drink? I'm struggling to eat anything with even just a few carbs without my BG shooting up (it'll only get worse once I run out of Victoza too). I get carb flu really, really badly so going low carb isn't an option, so I've ended up having to drink more

 

[ianf0ster]

@sunspots I'm not sure if you are being serious here. Alcohol is the worst way I can think of for lowering BG.

At least Berberine products (some of them), correct type of cinnamon (I forget which but apparently a common one doesn't work), do it without the potential problems of adding high calories, affecting judgement (it only takes 1 unit of alcohol to affect it), putting liver under pressure, getting drunk etc.

Which remedies did you try for 'Keto Flu'? I went Low Carb but never Keto, my BG levels just flirt around actually being in Ketosis each day.
The things I did were:
1. Drink plenty of fluids carbs retain fluid so when people go low carb/keto the pee out fluid quicker 9along with electrolytes) and so can get dehydrated more easily.
2. Take electrolyte supplements (though others find bone broth works well instead). I use lots of 'reduced Sodium Salt' This keeps both my Sodium and Potassium levels good, then I take a Magnesium supplement. My personal choice is Magnesium Glycinate (because it also helps with sleeping disorders) the cheaper Mag Citrate would give me looser bowels, which I don't need - LOL!

 

[Zhnyaka]

alcohol reduces the level of bg only because it has a negative effect on your liver, blocking its ability to produce glycogen. Not the best idea for your health, besides, as soon as the liver copes with the intoxication of your body, it can "catch up"

 

[Rachox]

I don’t drink alcohol so have no experience there. But I’m just concerned that you’re going to run out of Victoza soon, do you have an alternative to move to. I had a conversation with my diabetes nurse this morning and now have a plan B.

 

[sunspots]

@sunspots I'm not sure if you are being serious here. Alcohol is the worst way I can think of for lowering BG.

At least Berberine products (some of them), correct type of cinnamon (I forget which but apparently a common one doesn't work), do it without the potential problems of adding high calories, affecting judgement (it only takes 1 unit of alcohol to affect it), putting liver under pressure, getting drunk etc.

Which remedies did you try for 'Keto Flu'? I went Low Carb but never Keto, my BG levels just flirt around actually being in Ketosis each day.
The things I did were:
1. Drink plenty of fluids carbs retain fluid so when people go low carb/keto the pee out fluid quicker 9along with electrolytes) and so can get dehydrated more easily.
2. Take electrolyte supplements (though others find bone broth works well instead). I use lots of 'reduced Sodium Salt' This keeps both my Sodium and Potassium levels good, then I take a Magnesium supplement. My personal choice is Magnesium Glycinate (because it also helps with sleeping disorders) the cheaper Mag Citrate would give me looser bowels, which I don't need - LOL!

Hello ianf0ster. I'm actually quite serious. I've tried the other methods without success (in the end I decided the special cinnamon must be a scam!). I have also gone keto several times, with the flu getting worse each time, and know/have all the required supplements but they aren't enough any more. I seem to be very sensitive to carbs, but am only drinking a single drink with my evening meal, sometimes. Otherwise I'm bumbling on with as few carbs as I can manage, a largely raised BG, and hungry . I am utterly fed up with it, and pretty depressed for other reasons so could have done with my diabetes behaving! Although I know the alcohol has its own downsides, I need a lower BG so my hip muscles can heal after joining a gym and restoring old injuries. At present I can't even go for a good walk. Actually, the more I write here the more I am amazed that I haven't hit the bottle bigtime. Life is ****

 

[sunspots]

I don’t drink alcohol so have no experience there. But I’m just concerned that you’re going to run out of Victoza soon, do you have an alternative to move to. I had a conversation with my diabetes nurse this morning and now have a plan B.

Hello Rachox. I don't have an alternative to the Victoza at present. I have about 3 days left and hope the pharmacy has some by then as they owe me 2 pens. What is your back up plan, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Rachox]

Hello Rachox. I don't have an alternative to the Victoza at present. I have about 3 days left and hope the pharmacy has some by then as they owe me 2 pens. What is your back up plan, if you don't mind me asking?

I’m owed pens too but if not i’ll be back on Metformin which I was taking before.

 

[Robbity]

I think you'll find that alcohol appears to reduce glucose levels because the liver treats it as toxic and therefore gives priority to dealing with it, which delays it converting carbs to glucose as a result.

 

[KennyA]

Is anyone else finding that they can only enjoy anything with carbs if they pair it with an alcoholic drink? I'm struggling to eat anything with even just a few carbs without my BG shooting up (it'll only get worse once I run out of Victoza too). I get carb flu really, really badly so going low carb isn't an option, so I've ended up having to drink more

I recognise this effect - I do wonder if it's got anything to do with the success of the Mediterranean Diet, which in practice here in Italy includes alcohol with most meals. The effect for me is to remove the rapid immediate BG rise pretty much completely, which gets redistributed into higher (but not unacceptably higher) levels over the next 24-36 hours.

That said I wouldn't agree that I "can only enjoy anything with carbs if they pair it with an alcoholic drink". I aim for around 20g carb a day and am happy with how I've done on that. Can you tolerate any carb reduction at all ?

 

[sunspots]

I recognise this effect - I do wonder if it's got anything to do with the success of the Mediterranean Diet, which in practice here in Italy includes alcohol with most meals. The effect for me is to remove the rapid immediate BG rise pretty much completely, which gets redistributed into higher (but not unacceptably higher) levels over the next 24-36 hours.

That said I wouldn't agree that I "can only enjoy anything with carbs if they pair it with an alcoholic drink". I aim for around 20g carb a day and am happy with how I've done on that. Can you tolerate any carb reduction at all ?

I have reduced my carbs so far and felt rough, but bearable. I may be able to cut down further again. It's certainly worth a try.
I didn't know that alcohol only delays the increase in BG. It did seem too good to be true! I'm glad I posted as I've learnt something useful.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

If your diabetes is mainly due to low insulin production, and not mainly due to high insulin resistance, then slowing down the release of glycogen from the liver may help reduce the peaks and even keep your BG within target.
As others have said, this is not currently a medically recommended treatment.
However I do enjoy a glass or two of wine in the afternoon/evening and it does sometimes help with BG levels (I think).
However I do seem to have extended Dawn Phenomenon so my BG rises steadily from about 06:00 to 12:00 and then starts to drop in the afternoon and evening, so it may not be (just) the booze.

 

[Oldvatr]

I think you'll find that alcohol appears to reduce glucose levels because the liver treats it as toxic and therefore gives priority to dealing with it, which delays it converting carbs to glucose as a result.

~indeedy, as per this update

NIAAA Publications

pubs.niaaa.nih.gov

And here is a less technical explanation

Does alcohol turn into sugar? Well, not really. But there are calories. Metabolic pathway explained. | The Pain Relief and Wellness Clinic

 

[Zhnyaka]

I recognise this effect - I do wonder if it's got anything to do with the success of the Mediterranean Diet, which in practice here in Italy includes alcohol with most meals.

It sounds very appetizing. May I ask you to share recipes (or names) of the most delicious dishes? Not necessarily low-carb

 

[dawnmc]

Hello Rachox. I don't have an alternative to the Victoza at present. I have about 3 days left and hope the pharmacy has some by then as they owe me 2 pens. What is your back up plan, if you don't mind me asking?

I ran out of victoza, however yesterday my gp/pharmacist had it back in stock, so fingers crossed

 

[KennyA]

It sounds very appetizing. May I ask you to share recipes (or names) of the most delicious dishes? Not necessarily low-carb

I would be really happy to do that, but tonight is our last night in Italy and we're travelling most of tomorrow. I am a big fan of trippa (either Lucchese or Fiorentina, but most areas have their own variety) usually done in a light tomato and cheese sauce, or fegato, which is either pig or calves' liver thinly sliced and fried. Please feel free to PM me if I forget!

This cook has produced a series of books and did a TV show years ago that got me interested - this is the book of the series but might be hard to find

The Italian Regional Cookbook: A Great... book by Valentina Harris

and this (I think) is more recent, I don't have it

https://www.amazon.it/Italian-Regional-Cookbook-Valentina-Harris/dp/0754832406

 

[ianf0ster]

I have reduced my carbs so far and felt rough, but bearable. I may be able to cut down further again. It's certainly worth a try.
I didn't know that alcohol only delays the increase in BG. It did seem too good to be true! I'm glad I posted as I've learnt something useful.

Just to clarify:-
Unless I'm mistaken there are only 3 possible ways in which either a supplement or a medicine can lower blood glucose caused by eating carbohydrates.

1. Delay the liver from processing the carbs, but they still have to be processed at some time, they are not magic'd away! Alcohol and other toxic substances can do this. Perhaps some non-toxic ones too ?
2. Make the kidney extract it and so pee it out. Risk of UTI's
3. Act in the same way as Insulin does by causing them to be stored in Fat cells. I don't know of anything apart from insulin with this effect. Though it's thought that Metformin lowers 'insulin resistance a little , so may be included, but it's main effect is in reducing liver dumping glucose into bloodstream.

 

[Zhnyaka]

I would be really happy to do that, but tonight is our last night in Italy and we're travelling most of tomorrow. I am a big fan of trippa (either Lucchese or Fiorentina, but most areas have their own variety) usually done in a light tomato and cheese sauce, or fegato, which is either pig or calves' liver thinly sliced and fried. Please feel free to PM me if I forget!

This cook has produced a series of books and did a TV show years ago that got me interested - this is the book of the series but might be hard to find

The Italian Regional Cookbook: A Great... book by Valentina Harris

and this (I think) is more recent, I don't have it

https://www.amazon.it/Italian-Regional-Cookbook-Valentina-Harris/dp/0754832406

Thank you! I am very bad at English, but I will try to find something that is easy to insert into Google translator

 

[Oldvatr]

Just to clarify:-
Unless I'm mistaken there are only 3 possible ways in which either a supplement or a medicine can lower blood glucose caused by eating carbohydrates.

1. Delay the liver from processing the carbs, but they still have to be processed at some time, they are not magic'd away! Alcohol and other toxic substances can do this. Perhaps some non-toxic ones too ?
2. Make the kidney extract it and so pee it out. Risk of UTI's
3. Act in the same way as Insulin does by causing them to be stored in Fat cells. I don't know of anything apart from insulin with this effect. Though it's thought that Metformin lowers 'insulin resistance a little , so may be included, but it's main effect is in reducing liver dumping glucose into bloodstream.

There are triggers to wake up the beta cells to either start manufacturing insulin, or to release stored insulin from the granules. they are seperate triggers. that generally start in response to eating carbs. But there are other triggers that can set the beta cells into action, and these respond to fructose, and also to signals during lipid storage which also needs insulin to happen. Now alcohol does cause extra storage of lipid fat which is where the excess glucose . calories goes, which may explain the drop in measured bgl after drinking alcohol. It is in the article I posted above about alcohol metabolism,

As others have said, alcohol is not a recommended treatment strategy and the glucose will have out eventually. But it keeps the belly warm and well padded for a while. a;lcohol may look good on the meter, but it harms in other ways since it is a toxin.

 

[Outlier]

I suppose if you drank enough to make yourself puke, you wouldn't absorb all the alcohol.......

 

[Jaylee]

I suppose if you drank enough to make yourself puke, you wouldn't absorb all the alcohol.......

Not advisable when you dosed for any food as a T1 accompanying it?
I got caught out like that at a wine tasting evening. Lucky I had dosed for a low carb venison dish. (I wasn’t planning on desert.)
It literally hit me as I went to the rest room toward the end of the night.. I was wearing a Tux at the time too… which miraculously escaped any splashback.

The taxi driver was very kind too.. They don’t normally accept “wrecks” like that into the vehicles in my area..

Never again….