Hi I have a question about Dr Greger author of, How not to die. And exponent of the plant-based diet, he says fat causes diabetes not carbs.

[James9000]

I know it makes no logical sense and goes against almost everyone's experience here on this forum. But is there anything in his hypothesis. Dr Greger, is a big proponent of the plant-based diet. He's always using research to back up his argument however i've noticed that he is very selective about the research that he chooses to analyse. He only explains and talks on research that supports a plant-based diet.

I'm generally quite clued up, my degree was in experimental psychology but I'm genuinely confused. Is it some mixture , Perhaps saturated fat may contribute to developing diabetes but if you have the condition and it is more sensible to follow a low-carb keto diet. Or is it saturated fat and junk food that is the problem?

This question is of particular interest to me because I suffer from ulcerative colitis and I'm in remission because of eating a mostly plant-based diet. But although I try to be careful even after a small meal, of completely healthy food with the carbs quite diluted, my blood sugar hangs around about 8.0.

Very confused, YouTube is a nightmare for this topic, they seem to be two viewpoints, plant-based and keto diet which seem to be at war with each other, each one totally convinced their right. How is a person supposed to make sense of it all?

 

[MissMuffett]

I’ve watched a few YouTube videos featuring Dr Greger and ended up laughing my socks off, mainly because he talks a lot without saying much at all! I say ‘featuring’ as the YouTuber I watch is a proponent of keto and carnivore and not plant based so they’re obviously debunking what he says. Apart from that I don’t believe saturated fat causes diabetes.
You're absolutely right YouTube can me a nightmare of misinformation.

 

[Margarettt]

This question is of particular interest to me because I suffer from ulcerative colitis and I'm in remission because of eating a mostly plant-based diet. But although I try to be careful even after a small meal, of completely healthy food with the carbs quite diluted, my blood sugar hangs around about 8.0.

Good Morning @James9000 I don't know how relevant this is to your question but it is my experience.
I also have ulcerative colitis which in recent years has been very well managed with only occasional, very mild flares. At a recent video appointment I told my gastro consultant (who, like a scarecrow, is outstanding in her field) that I was trying very low carb with lots of meat protein and fat. I said it with my fingers crossed under the table waiting for a telling off. She was actually all for it. We had a short conversation about low carb sources of fibre (avocado,nuts etc.) which she told me to be sure to include.Otherwise she was all for it.
In all honestly my insides feel better rather than worse and I'm nine weeks in.
Again not a recommendation, just personal experience.

 

[MissMuffett]

I told my gastro consultant (who, like a scarecrow, is outstanding in her field)

That made me LOL!

 

[KennyA]

My response would be simply that while (as a population) we ate high levels of saturated fat and meat, we had lower levels of heart disease, obesity, and T2 diabetes. When the official advice changed in the the 1980s to recommend high carb rather than a traditional diet of sat fat and meat, we have seen increases in heart disease, obesity and T2 diabetes.

There is usually some sleight of hand going on when dietary fat is mentioned, usually to obscure the difference between dietary fat and body fat. I don't think anyone suggests that body fat, particularly round the organs, is a good thing. However, that body fat is a product of glucose (digested carb) storage, and not storage of dietary fat.

 

[In Response]

Do carbs or fat cause insulin resistance?
I know a treatment is low carb but does that mean high carb is the cause?
Is it as simple as one thing causes type 2?
How can two people eat similar, high carb, high fat diets and only one get type 2 diabetes?

I have been very careful to write "insulin resistance" and "types 2 diabetes".
It is also important to remember that there are more types of diabetes.
Type 1 is not caused by diet - it is an autoimmune condition.
Type 3c is not caused by diet - it is caused by a damaged pancreas.
....

 

[CatsFive]

He's a Vegan and I suspect that colours his advice

 

[Zhnyaka]

if the cause of diabetes was in the diet, then diabetes would not be inherited

 

[Lamont D]

From what I have learned, diabetes which can be inherited, is caused by inflammation.
There are so many scenarios to what causes the inflammation, but it won't be one thing only!
Saturated fat is beneficial, however, too much isn't
Water is essential, but too much is not.
And poisons in very small amounts can be helpful, too much isn't!!!!
We all have individual reasons for diabetes.
You just can't lump it all in one place.
And usually these videos are trying to sell you something!
That is not always good for us either!.

 

[TriciaWs]

Do carbs or fat cause insulin resistance?
I know a treatment is low carb but does that mean high carb is the cause?
Is it as simple as one thing causes type 2?
How can two people eat similar, high carb, high fat diets and only one get type 2 diabetes?

I have been very careful to write "insulin resistance" and "types 2 diabetes".
It is also important to remember that there are more types of diabetes.
Type 1 is not caused by diet - it is an autoimmune condition.
Type 3c is not caused by diet - it is caused by a damaged pancreas.
....

There is a genetic component, waiting to trigger T2 in the unfortunate people who have those genes. But diet clearly plays a part in triggering it.

Genetics of type 2 diabetes

Type 2 diabetes (T2D) is the result of interaction between environmental factors and a strong hereditary component. We review the heritability of T2D as well as the history of genetic and genomic research in this area. Very few T2D risk genes were identified ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Genetics play a strong role in the chances of developing both type 1 and type 2 diabetes. Other factors include environment and lifestyle.

Genetics play a strong role in the chances of developing both type 1 and type 2 diabetes. Other factors include environment and lifestyle.

www.diabetes.co.uk

 

[CatsFive]

if the cause of diabetes was in the diet, then diabetes would not be inherited

Not all diabetes is inherited, and it's a tendency to diabetes - an increased risk of it - which is sometimes inherited.

 

[James9000]

Good Morning @James9000 I don't know how relevant this is to your question but it is my experience.
I also have ulcerative colitis which in recent years has been very well managed with only occasional, very mild flares. At a recent video appointment I told my gastro consultant (who, like a scarecrow, is outstanding in her field) that I was trying very low carb with lots of meat protein and fat. I said it with my fingers crossed under the table waiting for a telling off. She was actually all for it. We had a short conversation about low carb sources of fibre (avocado,nuts etc.) which she told me to be sure to include.Otherwise she was all for it.
In all honestly my insides feel better rather than worse and I'm nine weeks in.
Again not a recommendation, just personal experience.

Interesting what you said, By the way I'm going to borrow your humorous scarecrow comment,
I see a consultant, I'll say, I hear your a scarecrow… I had some pretty bad flareups and unfortunately things all gone haywire when I've tried to get myself acclimatised fat before trying a short fast. Basically adopting the keto diet. On three occasions this has led to bad flareup. Apparently this some research that for some people, the bile that is released to deal with the fat, because of some issue in the colon, that's all I know.

With all the shifting and partisan opinions on Internet one thing I think is solid, is that there is no douubt that if you have saturated fat with carbohydrates you get a much bigger blood sugar spike. I believe there is something in the theory but I just don't understand what. It may be sensible if you are going to eat carbs maybe have them away from heavy fats, I don't know.

 

[CatsFive]

Interesting what you said, By the way I'm going to borrow your humorous scarecrow comment,
I see a consultant, I'll say, I hear your a scarecrow… I had some pretty bad flareups and unfortunately things all gone haywire when I've tried to get myself acclimatised fat before trying a short fast. Basically adopting the keto diet. On three occasions this has led to bad flareup. Apparently this some research that for some people, the bile that is released to deal with the fat, because of some issue in the colon, that's all I know.

With all the shifting and partisan opinions on Internet one thing I think is solid, is that there is no douubt that if you have saturated fat with carbohydrates you get a much bigger blood sugar spike. I believe there is something in the theory but I just don't understand what. It may be sensible if you are going to eat carbs maybe have them away from heavy fats, I don't know.

Everyone with a gall bladder releases bile when they eat a meal containing fat - any kind of fat.

And AFAIK consuming fat with carbs slows down the blood glucose spike.

 

[KennyA]

Interesting what you said, By the way I'm going to borrow your humorous scarecrow comment,
I see a consultant, I'll say, I hear your a scarecrow… I had some pretty bad flareups and unfortunately things all gone haywire when I've tried to get myself acclimatised fat before trying a short fast. Basically adopting the keto diet. On three occasions this has led to bad flareup. Apparently this some research that for some people, the bile that is released to deal with the fat, because of some issue in the colon, that's all I know.

With all the shifting and partisan opinions on Internet one thing I think is solid, is that there is no douubt that if you have saturated fat with carbohydrates you get a much bigger blood sugar spike. I believe there is something in the theory but I just don't understand what. It may be sensible if you are going to eat carbs maybe have them away from heavy fats, I don't know.

The fat with carb thing - what people seem to report is just the opposite. It's got a name - the "pizza effect". Fats appear to slow down carb digestion, leading to a lower but more long-lasting BG rise.

I have zero personal experience of this as I have never eaten any quantity of carbs plus fat while I've been monitoring my BG.

 

[Lamont D]

In my extensive experience and backed up by my handwritten food diary which is a few books thick!
Good saturated fats, supress the spike by around 2 mmols down from the ultimate spike.
my spike is usually around the 45 minutes, when I do have any carbs. Depending on what carbs or food that I tried, if I could tolerate.
Bad fats such as polyunsaturated etc. Do not!
Good saturated fats also satiate you better as well.

Mind you, this is the norm in dietary digestion. Other medical interventions, can and do alter the height of the spike and longevity!.

 

[JenniferM55]

Think what often gets missed in debates on the causes of diabetes, is processed foods.

To quote from Dr Michael Mosely's book 'The Fast 800 Keto', Chapter 1, Summary:

"Although fats, carbs and sugar have in turn been blamed for the current obesity crisis, there is mounting evidence that the real problem is ultra processed food, which is typically high in poor quality fat, carbs, sugar and salt, making it incredibly calorific and hard to resist. And as Dr Chris van Tulleken discovered, once you start eating these foods they can mess with your brain".

Don't think it's a coincidence that milk chocolate, ice cream, chips, pepperoni pizza, crisps, sponge cake, buttered popcorn, and cheeseburgers all have a ratio 1g of fat to 2g of carbs. That's the ratio that we tend to find is addictive. The reason why this ratio is irresistible is because it resembles the first food we most likely consumed, human milk, which contains around 4g fat and 8g of carbs.

Like Dr Mosely in his book 'The Fast 800', I also think food manufacturers are aware of this vulnerability and of course for the sake of profits, exploit it.

 

[CatsFive]

Think what often gets missed in debates on the causes of diabetes, is processed foods.

To quote from Dr Michael Mosely's book 'The Fast 800 Keto', Chapter 1, Summary:

"Although fats, carbs and sugar have in turn been blamed for the current obesity crisis, there is mounting evidence that the real problem is ultra processed food, which is typically high in poor quality fat, carbs, sugar and salt, making it incredibly calorific and hard to resist. And as Dr Chris van Tulleken discovered, once you start eating these foods they can mess with your brain".

Don't think it's a coincidence that milk chocolate, ice cream, chips, pepperoni pizza, crisps, sponge cake, buttered popcorn, and cheeseburgers all have a ratio 1g of fat to 2g of carbs. That's the ratio that we tend to find is addictive. The reason why this ratio is irresistible is because it resembles the first food we most likely consumed, human milk, which contains around 4g fat and 8g of carbs.

Like Dr Mosely in his book 'The Fast 800', I also think food manufacturers are aware of this vulnerability and of course for the sake of profits, exploit it.

Processed foods, over-large portions, cheap foods (e.g. lots of carbs & very little in the way of vegetables), regular heavy drinking, lack of exercise, unfortunate genes, oral steroids, some other medications, and more.

 

[Jaylee]

Nobody really understands what contributed to a condition anymore than we can remember where we were when Elvis died..
Some people like to give lectures on YouTube leading us to believe we were all in “Graceland” handing him the burgers..

There is a genetic component, waiting to trigger T2 in the unfortunate people who have those genes. But diet clearly plays a part in triggering it.

Genetics of type 2 diabetes

Type 2 diabetes (T2D) is the result of interaction between environmental factors and a strong hereditary component. We review the heritability of T2D as well as the history of genetic and genomic research in this area. Very few T2D risk genes were identified ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Genetics play a strong role in the chances of developing both type 1 and type 2 diabetes. Other factors include environment and lifestyle.

Genetics play a strong role in the chances of developing both type 1 and type 2 diabetes. Other factors include environment and lifestyle.

www.diabetes.co.uk

To draw another analogy. In the same way some youngsters can go on the “lash” all night & wake for work the following day, then by the time they hit 25 can’t function like “this” any more…

I feel.?
Metabolisms change.. There was a T2 dog walker I used to meet (a little older than me.) say, “I used to look like you. Ate pizza sandwiches & never put on any weight. Then one day….!??”

Funny you mentioned “cheeseburgers,” @JenniferM55 .

 

[Zhnyaka]

Not all diabetes is inherited, and it's a tendency to diabetes - an increased risk of it - which is sometimes inherited.

I meant that if the cause of diabetes was exclusively in the external environment, then it would not be inherited at all, but if, for example, your identical twin (and whether the disease is genetic is usually judged by comparing twins, especially identical ones) suffers from t2, then the risk that you will also have t2 is 90%, regardless of diet and lifestyle, in the same situation, but with t1, the risk is about 40%. Fortunately, you're right that it's not always inherited (but I'm not going to have children anyway)

 

[Fenn]

As it is suggested above, I am 100% convinced that Fat people don’t get T2, T2 people are far far more likely to get fat, due to the insulin resistance, try being hungry your entire life due to not being able to utilize your natural energy reserves and not get fat.