Do I test if I am 'post diabetic'?

[this is too difficult]

Nope 7.2 at 45 mins and it went down at one hour and further still at 2. Decided to test here after the very sweet bread and butter pudding custard burger and chips so was curious/expectant of higher

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That is very good. Just don't go mental mate.

 

[andcol]

Lol nope back to normal on Saturday when I get home and back on the treadmill as well. Have done a lot of walking along coastal paths though this week. Much nicer than a treadmill even if my family can't keep up with me anymore

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[this is too difficult]

Lol nope back to normal on Saturday when I get home and back on the treadmill as well. Have done a lot of walking along coastal paths though this week. Much nicer than a treadmill even if my family can't keep up with me anymore

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I also have been on holiday and had good results. got home and tested my blood pressure
It is high
Never had high blood pressure in my life before

 

[Pipp]

hello good folks of the forum
I am in a very happy place, very limited Internet access so only briefly getting online. possibly will go off again before I post this.#
Have only managed to scan posts, will give my full attention when back to 21st century civilisation in a few weeks.

have been testing for a week. Always between 4.8 and 6.9.
This morning I thought of you all, and in the interest of science conducted an experiment. Breakfast was 4 slices smoked bacon,1 fried egg, 6 chestnut mushrooms, 2 cups black coffee. so, nothing that doesn't fit the HFLC diet there then. afterwards I had two thick slices of white bread toasted with butter and a tablespoon of homemade sweet sugary jam on each. just to add an extra kick I put two teaspoons of sugar in each of my 2 cups of coffee. Blood glucose after 1 hour was 5.8, after two hours 6.9, after 3 hours 5.0.

Have to say I did not enjoy the sweet taste, but I did not feel ill or lethargic like I would have in the past. I may experiment again, but I am not going to be happy when I stand on the scales if I do it too much. However, in the interest of science, ( I know, I am legend), if I have a good time with the flow of alcoholic beverages, and I am able to have a steady enough hand I will try to test again and report back.

I did try a chip butty for @zand but didn't have meter with me. Butty overrated, I think my taste buds have changed as I much prefer fresh veggies and such these days.

*DISCLAIMER DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!!
Be well folks
Pipp

 

[Pipp]

Yes, Andrew this was my feeling when I read this thread too. I didn't know how to express my thoughts so I didn't post, but you have explained what I was thinking perfectly. Thank you!

OK what I am going to say next will be a bit controversial, and most won't agree with me, it's just my opinion.

Pipp, I know the 'cured' label is a difficult one, as the ND is so new, but having read all of this thread my feeling is that you are no longer diabetic. To me if you can have so many carbs and only get spikes that some non-diabetics would get then surely that's a cure and you are no longer carb intolerant. Now obviously I see the need to be sensible and not push at the limits too much, because some of the factors that caused you to become diabetic in the first place may still be lurking, but if it looks like a cure and acts like a cure........

So yes I'm with Brunneria, I like the label pre-diabetic for you. Even though it makes no sense, it makes most sense because it is back one step from being diabetic - back one step from where you were with diabetes. Testing to make sure you stay pre-diabetic has to be sensible, but when you have lost all the weight you want to lose, I don't see there is any reason why you wouldn't be able to eat whatever you want to eat in moderation - but I would still advise testing occasionally then too.

How does pre-post-diabetic sound? would that fit? not pre-diabetic, because I have had the full on T2 for some time. Not post diabetic, because that is not defined, even though under the criteria used for my T2 diagnosis I have been under the diagnostic measurement for almost 3 years. So, until / if a definitive category is found then I am anticipating being post-diabetic.

 

[Pipp]

Andrew your replies have been very interesting and given me a lot of food for thought, so thanks for that.

Obviously some diabetics don't think it's worth testing after an hour and are happy with just a two-hour reading, whereas some of us are not. People have to find their own ways of managing their own condition. I personally would not be comfortable knowing just my two hour figure as I know that no matter what my one-hour peak, my two hours is at worst in the 6's, so if I just go by that, I can manage full sugar coke (for example) or a big slab of cake or pretty much anything that if I tested at one hour, I would know to avoid like the plague.

I probably don't have anything else to add to this thread but I remain firm in the conviction that "cured" isn't as straightforward as just getting a decent Hba1c a few times in a row and am not sure what purpose declaring yourself 'cured' makes anyway. If you have the propensity to get diabetic blood glucose numbers, even if you currently don't, then that's diabetic.

@sarah You have made some very interesting and valid points. This has been a great help, so thank you.
I will during my testing phase take into consideration the need to test at 1hour post prandial.

 

[Pipp]

Hey there SJC.

Yeah, I know what you're saying - if you don't have much excess weight to lose as a T2 diabetic, it would seem to raise questions about Prof Taylor's hypothesis.

But I can only pass on what he has said on the matter (from the Newcastle university website already linked to by myself and AndBreathe):



The website also links to a couple of newspaper articles by journalist Richard Doughty, who had a BMI of 23.0 at diagnosis of Type2, and had good results by reducing his BMI to 19.6.

Could the location of fat cells also be important too? visceral fat would not necessarily be apparent if the person did not have subcutaneous fat. I have a lot of visible subcutaneous fat around my middle. when I had open surgery recently which involved an incision the complete length of my abdomen and much rejigging of my internal abdominal organs, I could not resist asking the surgeon at the post op check how my liver and other organs looked. He replied that there had been, to his surprise very little visceral fat, and my liver was healthy. So liver not enlarged, I asked. Not at all, he told me.

 

[JTL]

Pre diabetes post diabetes ...

I'm stuck in the middle I guess.

 

[andcol]

I also have been on holiday and had good results. got home and tested my blood pressure
It is high
Never had high blood pressure in my life before

Oh dear, any idea what has raised your BP? Mine came down steadily with my weight. I test it in patches for 4 days at a time. I will do it in October for my yearly check up. Hope it comes down soon.

 

[this is too difficult]

Oh dear, any idea what has raised your BP? Mine came down steadily with my weight. I test it in patches for 4 days at a time. I will do it in October for my yearly check up. Hope it comes down soon.

It is back to 123 over 83 this morning. Very strange.

 

[Indy51]

It is back to 123 over 83 this morning. Very strange.

Did you drop your carbs again now that you're back home? Almost every LCHF authority I've read says that carbs have a huge effect on blood pressure and most people on a low carb real food diet will improve their BP.

 

[this is too difficult]

Did you drop your carbs again now that you're back home? Almost every LCHF authority I've read says that carbs have a huge effect on blood pressure and most people on a low carb real food diet will improve their BP.

No change in anything really. I have never had High BP, even when I was 20 stone.

 

[sanguine]

Oh dear, any idea what has raised your BP? Mine came down steadily with my weight. I test it in patches for 4 days at a time. I will do it in October for my yearly check up. Hope it comes down soon.

Same here, was 160/90 at diagnosis, now a steady 125/65 or thereabouts.

 

[Pipp]

The NHS needs to make up its mind - is T2 the plague of the modern world or just a cold and snotty nose type illness. I was diagnosed in May 2014 with a fasting level of 13.8. I couldn't get an appointment with the nurse for three weeks (holiday -hers not mine) so I do what any sensible person would do bought my self a monitor and test strips and good book. By the time I went to see the nurse my level was down to 8.3 on morning tests. Good job I took the initiative because she told me - she didn't have time to do a first review, she wished she had known it was my first review. Strange thing I did mention it to the receptionist and it was in my notes - but we will let that slip. She then told me she couldn't give me a prescription for test strips as my tester was not the one the practice gives you for free. My test plugs into my iPhone so my results are there for me to see all the time in A graph, in a log in an average. She then told me I only need to test once a week. By this time, having lost interest and five hours pay as the appointment was in the middle of the day and work 30miles from my home I bought the appointment to close and decided not to bother with her in the future.
The book I bought was brilliant type 2 the first 12 months and this forum is fantastic - I have gained more insight and advice from these than for the NHS. If I was you I would test from what I have read there is no cure - you can control it but you can't cure it. I also think that every home should have a tester and should test once a week - the articles that I have read state that rather than t2 being the result of obesity the thinking now is that obesity is the result of a pre disposition to t2 as a result of your genes.

Don't give up on the nurse or your GP though. Important to get your eye screening tests and feet and blood checks too. What I did was research for myself, just as you are doing, @Barbie1808. Then armed with the relevant information went and educated them. they seem to appreciate that taking responsibility for my own health was a positive step, and have taken on board the info I gave them, and used it with other patients too.

 

[this is too difficult]

[QUOTE=". Genes do not control anything.[/QUOTE]

What do they do then?

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I came across this thread when about to post about "post diabetes" because my fasting readings are settling down into the "pre diabetes" range now that I have lost a stone.

I am following the Newcastle Study especially the part about "normal BMI" and still needing to lose weight.
I am temporarily stalled at 12 stone on my way to 11 stone 7 but my BG is definitely better on the same diet.

So how do I describe myself? There doesn't seem to be an accepted term because as stated upstream there is a general assumption that diabetes is progressive so once you have it you have ave it for life.

Anyway, I reckpn that if something waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck then it is probably a duck.

So, if you pass the diagnostic tests for diabetes, which I understand are three fold - fasting BG, HbA1c, and for final confirmation/denial a fasting glucose tolerance test - and by passing I mean having results in the non diabetic range then you are provisionally non diabetic.

If you then go on to eat the NICE diet with plenty of healthy carbs and regular testing coupled with annual reviews shows that you still diagnose as non diabetic over the next three years then "quack quack" you are not diabetic. Which is a truly wonderful thing.

You will never in future be unaware of diabetes and should check regularly to confirm you are not creeping back towards pre diabetes but you are cured, just as if you no longer have high blood pressure, obesity, or any other metabolic complaint.

Which is a truly wonderful thing. I am jealous.

Back to my problem; how do I describe myself?

Recovering may be a term, pre diabetic doesn't sound right because I am a diabetic hopefully travelling in the other direction. Borderline, perhaps. Post diabetic isn't right because that implies a cure. Improving? Regenerating? Revitalising? Borderline delusional? Tayloring?

Hmmmmm.....I'm Tayloring at the moment and hope to be fully Taylored eventually?

That might be a reasonable description, or perhaps Newcastling?

Anyway, it does seem to be established that diabetes is reversible for some people under some circumstances for an unspecicfied period of time.

This does put more psychological pressure on those who try the route to the cure and find it doesn't work.

I have been unable to stop myself resenting at some level the people who are diagnosed when obese and who then lose weight and reverse the symptoms. I am not overweight but I have diabetes {picture of bottom lip wobbling}.

Stil, it is unfair to resent other peoples good fortune so I try to rise above it.

Bottom line - a well controlled diabetic is one who can maintain non diabetic numbers by sticking to a rigorous diet. A cured diabetic is one who can maintain non diabetic numbers when eating anything they **** well please.

 

[zand]

Which is a truly wonderful thing. I am jealous.
Stil, it is unfair to resent other peoples good fortune so I try to rise above it.

Bottom line - a well controlled diabetic is one who can maintain non diabetic numbers by sticking to a rigorous diet. A cured diabetic is one who can maintain non diabetic numbers when eating anything they **** well please.

Yes.... my previous objections to talk of a cure for some people have been caused by exactly the same sentiments......jealousy and resentment. I hope I am through with that now....time will tell. Sorry @Pipp

 

[Debmcgee]

Did you go to the dentist? That have me a HUGE reading!!!!


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Diagnosed prediabetic Easter 2014. Just left to get on with it, no guidance or help from GP. Every day I'm learning something new.

 

[Pipp]

I came across this thread when about to post about "post diabetes" because my fasting readings are settling down into the "pre diabetes" range now that I have lost a stone.

Well done @LittleGreyCat I am pleased that Newcaslte dieting seems to be working for you too.

I am following the Newcastle Study especially the part about "normal BMI" and still needing to lose weight.
I am temporarily stalled at 12 stone on my way to 11 stone 7 but my BG is definitely better on the same diet.



So, if you pass the diagnostic tests for diabetes, which I understand are three fold - fasting BG, HbA1c, and for final confirmation/denial a fasting glucose tolerance test - and by passing I mean having results in the non diabetic range then you are provisionally non diabetic.
.

Which is a truly wonderful thing. I am jealous.
It is wonderful, @LittleGrey, but the spectre of T2 is still there, waiting to strike if you drop your guard



I have been unable to stop myself resenting at some level the people who are diagnosed when obese and who then lose weight and reverse the symptoms. I am not overweight but I have diabetes {picture of bottom lip wobbling}.

Ouch!
You are overweight if you are still trying to lose weight. What do you think about someone like me who is still very heavy after losing over a third of body weight?
Stil, it is unfair to resent other peoples good fortune so I try to rise above it.

Not sure if this helps you rise above it, but I have to say I am not to be envied. My reason for starting this thread was to canvas opinion regarding BG testing. Advice I received confirmed that I should whilst I am in the 'transition' phase of having Metformin stopped, and I will review this at next HbA1c test in a couple of months. Despite having None diabetic BG of almost 3 years duration I do have other disabling conditions which severely restrict my life and the activities I can participate in. I do not resent or feel jealous of people who are able to walk for recreation, or go to theatre concerts or football matches, go abroad for hols, or even on a bus, or cycle, which were all things I have previously been able to do but cannot any longer.

Yes, I was diagnosed when not just obese, but morbidly so. I am still obese, and therefore still need to find support to continue losing weight.. Yet I cannot see how that is so different to being ' just overweight'. Obese people who lose weight just started the weight loss regime a bit later than someone just a little bit overweight did. Forgive me if I misunderstand your post, but it almost seems to suggest you are subscribing to the popular opinion that if you are obese and get diabetes then you only have yourself to blame.

However, those who advocate the Newcastle diet regime seem few and far between.so we need to stick together. I get that you feel that it has been successful for you too, and I really hope that it is. Just like all of the other methods folks on the forum are using there will be supporters and detractors. There will not be a single way for each of us to find a way of managing/reversing/curing/ going into remission that will suit everyone, but I am glad that you @LittleGreyCat are having the success you are. Long may it continue, and may many more have similar success.



Bottom line - a well controlled diabetic is one who can maintain non diabetic numbers by sticking to a rigorous diet. A cured diabetic is one who can maintain non diabetic numbers when eating anything they **** well please.

I cautiously agree with this statement until I am proved wrong.

Best wishes

Pipp

 

[Pipp]

Yes.... my previous objections to talk of a cure for some people have been caused by exactly the same sentiments......jealousy and resentment. I hope I am through with that now....time will tell. Sorry @Pipp

Thank you @zand
If you knew my restricted life you would see there is nothing to envy. I have just removed one layer of impairment