In a slump (warning a post full of self pity)

[Margarettt]

A couple of weeks ago I had my hba1c and it had dropped from 44 to 43 (it was 54 last August) I understand this is good and I should be pleased with it but I had been hoping for even lower following a couple of months of pre and post food readings that were consistently 5s and low 6s. In trying to work it out I did some fasting readings and am still seeing higher 5am numbers 7s and even an 8.4. I'm disappointed in this ongoing dawn phenomenon as I've been 20g carbs per day since last August. I enjoy my diet and I'm rarely hungry but I have worked hard. I've given up nicotine lozengers, I gently exercise and I finish eating after dinner and my next meal is the following day's lunch. My numbers around food are great and I really don't see anything else I can do. Ugh I'm thinking about eating food I'm not hungry for at 5am to see if that helps.
I do believe this "fed up" feeling has made me slip off the path a bit. I'm still not eating carbs but I'm picking at low carb treats all day. There were three or four days last week where my food diary is a scribble of my meals (not the extras) without a tally. I find myself forgetting to do post meal finger pricks that I was previously really consistent with.
I understand other things are relevant and I do have stresses.I care for elderly parents and have recently returned to work after a long absence but I take my egg and cheese packed lunch to work with me and my day time numbers are consistently great. I checked this morning and I'm not in ketosis any more so all these 2 carb treats must have mounted up.
I realised this morning that I used to take strength from this forum all day long and now I just check in every couple of days. That's partly about returning to work and a busy life but partly I think a feeling of considering giving up.
If its a marathon and not a sprint I'm at that point where you wondering if you can make it.
Apologies for the self indulgent whine and I know some people would be grateful for my numbers I really do its just not where I want to be. My dad is an 87 year old type 2. He's on meds (not insulin) and has been for 40 years. Before lunch yesterday his bloods were 5.1 and mine were 5.6. He had fish and chips and I had salmon and a salad. I keep thinking about that.

 

[TheSecretCarbAddict]

Don't give up! While your results are not what you wanted to see, they are good results never the less. The real important bit is to sustain this long term as that will help you avoid any long-term complications. And this is why you are doing this, right? The way I recently started to think about my diabetes management is that it is a journey, not a destination and there will be times when you will have bumps in that journey, when you sidetrack or even backtrack. The important thing is to keep going. But you knew that already!

 

[Paul_]

First and most important, don't apologise, it's what we're here for! If you need to talk or are feeling down, we're always here to go through it with you.

You know me by now, I love a good stat fest!
The data never lies and there in lies the truth, so let's get into those numbers! Your hba1c is just 1 point off of normal non-diabetic range. T2 diabetics are considered in good, well controlled range if under 48 and you're smashing that! We can always seek better results, numbers lead our brains to do that, and if you're even vaguely competitive (I suspect, like me, you might be) then it's a difficult mindset to fight against. Sometimes though, good enough is just that - good enough. Would you actually gain anything if you were any of the arbitrary numbers you could pick below 43? Likely not, I'd suggest. Would a 39 result actually make any difference to your health outcomes? No. So, although difficult (and trust me, I appreciate your mental battle on this), you're doing great with your hba1c.

As for the pre-lunch readings between you and your dad, I'm going to remind you of some important facts, of which you're already more than fully aware:

1) BG meters have a 15% error margin, so 5.6 and 5.1 could actually be the same. Maybe yours was actually lower, but the error margins weren't in your favour. Regardless, it's all in the same ball park, please don't let it play on your mind.

2) Your dad requires medication to achieve that number, you don't. Even if he doesn't struggle with side effects of medication, who's to say you won't? You're in full control of your BG levels throughout the day, that's quite a thing to have achieved!

3) You know the golden rules of BG testing and the most important one is "one good pre-meal result doesn't make a summer!" Maybe I've mixed metaphors, who knows , but with what you ate for lunch compared to your dad, I'm willing to bet your 2 hour post lunch result would have been way better. Please don't do yourself a disservice by picking and choosing BG results to beat yourself up - you deserve way better than that, my friend!

All of your numbers show you're doing a fantastic job and that's despite how you feel, the rough time you've had post knee surgery, and with not tracking every morsel that crosses your lips. It's ok to give yourself a break. Life is tough, routine is difficult to maintain day after day with no end in sight, and we all have down days. It's easy to look around and wonder if the grass is greener on other paths, but sometimes it's better to just get through these patches any way you can. If that's having a few treats, not tracking them, but being fully aware (as you clearly are due to your post) of the fact it's something you need to make sure doesn't get out of control, that seems perfectly normal and reasonable to me.

Hang in there, @Margarettt. You've done so well and are still doing so. It's ok to not be ok, just make sure you keep talking to us.

 

[jpscloud]

I can't top @Paul_ 's excellent encouragement but wanted to mention that I know how hard it is caring for one elderly parent, let alone two. I think you're doing an amazing job working as well as caring, and it would be no wonder if that's taking a bit of a toll on your motivation and joie de vivre!

The thing people say to those who are carers with no time for themselves is "Don't forget to make time for yourself!" as though there is some magical switch you can flick to turn off the responsibilities and obligations. But if it's possible for you, make a stand on having you time and don't budge.

The only thing I can add about motivation is to maybe watch you tube videos (I watch them in every room, including the bathroom, either on smart tv or kindles!) from respected clinicians like Jason Fung and Eric Westman - I also find Ken Berry (KenDBerryMD) very good for motivating me. Apologies if you already do this!

 

[lovinglife]

Can’t really add anything as it’s all been said, but maybe sit down with a cuppa and read back over all your old posts to remind yourself how far you’ve come and what you’ve achieved, not just with your diabetes but with your life in general- crikey you even learned to cook!

 

[Margarettt]

And this is why you are doing this, right?

You are absolutely right. Thank you for your kind and thoughtful reply.

 

[Margarettt]

We can always seek better results, numbers lead our brains to do that, and if you're even vaguely competitive (I suspect, like me, you might be) then it's a difficult mindset to fight against. Sometimes though, good enough is just that - good enough.

@Paul_ my friend you know me too well. This is absolutely the crux of what is going on. I was the girl who took a hundred unnecessary driving lessons to be sure she would pass first time and badgered tutors after lectures about work she understood to be sure it would be a first.
I know its possible to get numbers down to non diabetic levels therefore that becomes the goal. Its a personality thing.
Anyway its not a goal if I give up so onwards we go. I appreciate you thank you.

 

[Margarettt]

The only thing I can add about motivation is to maybe watch you tube videos (I watch them in every room, including the bathroom, either on smart tv or kindles!) from respected clinicians like Jason Fung and Eric Westman - I also find Ken Berry (KenDBerryMD) very good for motivating me.

This is a smashing idea and might just be the motivation I need. Thank you.

 

[Margarettt]

crikey you even learned to cook!

This made me laugh. Thank you. You would be so proud of me. Having got 5 or 6 meals down pat I didn't want my family to get bored with the rotation so have decided that every Wednesday I will try something new. Baring in mind I cater to an American husband and two grown boys this Wednesday is keto chilli hotdogs. Wish me luck.

 

[lovinglife]

This made me laugh. Thank you. You would be so proud of me. Having got 5 or 6 meals down pat I didn't want my family to get bored with the rotation so have decided that every Wednesday I will try something new. Baring in mind I cater to an American husband and two grown boys this Wednesday is keto chilli hotdogs. Wish me luck.

I am proud of you! - the hot dogs sound amazing, sounds like you haven’t lost your mojo - your foot is only dangling over the edge of the wagon, your nowhere near falling off - hopefully all the lovely replies you’ve had has made you realise just how well you’re doing and helped you tuck that foot back up

 

[JoKalsbeek]

A couple of weeks ago I had my hba1c and it had dropped from 44 to 43 (it was 54 last August) I understand this is good and I should be pleased with it but I had been hoping for even lower following a couple of months of pre and post food readings that were consistently 5s and low 6s. In trying to work it out I did some fasting readings and am still seeing higher 5am numbers 7s and even an 8.4. I'm disappointed in this ongoing dawn phenomenon as I've been 20g carbs per day since last August. I enjoy my diet and I'm rarely hungry but I have worked hard. I've given up nicotine lozengers, I gently exercise and I finish eating after dinner and my next meal is the following day's lunch. My numbers around food are great and I really don't see anything else I can do. Ugh I'm thinking about eating food I'm not hungry for at 5am to see if that helps.
I do believe this "fed up" feeling has made me slip off the path a bit. I'm still not eating carbs but I'm picking at low carb treats all day. There were three or four days last week where my food diary is a scribble of my meals (not the extras) without a tally. I find myself forgetting to do post meal finger pricks that I was previously really consistent with.
I understand other things are relevant and I do have stresses.I care for elderly parents and have recently returned to work after a long absence but I take my egg and cheese packed lunch to work with me and my day time numbers are consistently great. I checked this morning and I'm not in ketosis any more so all these 2 carb treats must have mounted up.
I realised this morning that I used to take strength from this forum all day long and now I just check in every couple of days. That's partly about returning to work and a busy life but partly I think a feeling of considering giving up.
If its a marathon and not a sprint I'm at that point where you wondering if you can make it.
Apologies for the self indulgent whine and I know some people would be grateful for my numbers I really do its just not where I want to be. My dad is an 87 year old type 2. He's on meds (not insulin) and has been for 40 years. Before lunch yesterday his bloods were 5.1 and mine were 5.6. He had fish and chips and I had salmon and a salad. I keep thinking about that.

It's a marathon, not a sprint, and part of that is keeping an eye on what works for you and adjusting things were they need to be adjusted. Morning numbers are the last to come down. Could take half a year, could be a year, who knows. But everything that's dumped in your blood, isn't packed onto your liver. Pretty much all T2's have non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, and the only way to get rid of that, well... You're experiencing it. I know, it's not fun having higher numbers than you'd like to see, but you know they're not coming from what you're eating. So they they come from what's stored in the liver, and it's stored in there as fats... And you're shedding that, you're healing. Try looking at it that way, and if that doesn't work, well... A slice of cheese in the morning will likely stop the liver dump, if it's that important to you. You might not feel like eating, but it'd just be a bite, and practically zero-carb at that.

I graze. I can't seem to stop, having started quite thoroughly when my mom became ill, and everything becoming out of sorts and irregular. Mom's been gone a year now, but the grazing remained, because stress remained a factor throughout. My husband had long covid (about 80% back to his old self, which seems to be the best we can hope for), so that was a worry, then mum, then the ADHD prayer-with-no-end, as we call it here... So yes, I graze, because everything since '21 has been an absolute nightmare. Only time I don't is when I experiment with ADHD meds, and those seem to be becoming a bust, with allergies and sensitivities. (More stress, more chocolate, because of that now!) I try to graze low to zero carb, and if not, then something that'll help the ADHD/stress, with a dopamine-boost, like extra dark chocolate. Something that'll comfort, as that too will help with the blood sugars. Because life happens and I have to deal with it. Somehow. And no-one here'll whip me for it. And they won't give you a beating either!

We find what we need and we implement what we must, because our needs change all the time. Sometimes there's a lot of stress, sometimes there's sleepless nights, sometimes there's a fancy dinner and you won't want to miss the flavours... Sometimes it's a party, sometimes it's a funeral, but life just happens. It does, and we deal with it. We shift gears and we do what we must, for our blood sugars, for our mental health, for the people we love, for.... You fill it in, and it counts. All of it counts. And sometimes, we get tired of it all and don't fill out diaries and don't keep an eye on numbers. Sometimes we get a bit, or a lot, of Diabetic Burn Out. (I mean, it's an actual term, and it wouldn't be if it wasn't A Thing). In the midst of all of that, there's you, what you need, what you can handle at any given time, and the deep need to Give Yourself A Break. Really, because you're kicking yourself around again, and there's no need to. Look, if you want to low carb, low carb. If you want to do low carb up to a point, but wouldn't mind adding in some meds so you can have a bit more leeway, then do that. Or go whole hog for the pharmacy. You do whatever it is you need, and you change things around again when you feel you want to change them around, or need to. Nothing you choose now, is forever. You can find out what you need and go with that, and if that changes, you change tack with it. This is YOUR diabetes. You do this as you want to do it, as you need to do it. And if that's a few weeks of being a little lax with the testing, then so be it. You'll get back to it eventually, or you won't. It's entirely up to you. You may not be able to choose whether you want this condition or not, but you can decide what you do with it. Always. Your. Choice.

Hugs,
Jo

 

[Resurgam]

I cannot get down into the 30s, I have decided that after so long being pushed to eat carbs, I just can't go any further back into normal numbers.
I went a whole year hoping.
I was eating no more than 50gm of carbs a day and went down to under 40 in the hope of reducing my HbA1c from 42 into the 30s. A whole year - and it was still 42.
My day to day numbers are normal. I just had to accept that 42 was my normal.
Having done that, I have continued to see HbA1c in the low 40s. I am going to be 73 years old in a few days - it seems good enough. There are no problems from diabetes, I am still able to do things, even do some work.

 

[Margarettt]

morning numbers are the last to come down. Could take half a year, could be a year, who knows.

Oh @JoKalsbeek You are, as ever my cheerleader (and yes. tears again) The above really helps. For some reason I had in my head that the morning numbers would/should be down within the first 5 or 6 months. I had stopped testing early morning and assumed they matched all the lovely little 5s around food. At the risk of being dramatic it was actually a bit shocking to discover I'm still waking up to mid 8s.

they they come from what's stored in the liver, and it's stored in there as fats... And you're shedding that, you're healing.

Yes, this will be the plan. "Better out than in" So lets give it another 6 months and see what happens.
Thank you.

 

[Margarettt]

I cannot get down into the 30s, I have decided that after so long being pushed to eat carbs, I just can't go any further back into normal numbers.
I went a whole year hoping.
I was eating no more than 50gm of carbs a day and went down to under 40 in the hope of reducing my HbA1c from 42 into the 30s. A whole year - and it was still 42.
My day to day numbers are normal. I just had to accept that 42 was my normal.
Having done that, I have continued to see HbA1c in the low 40s. I am going to be 73 years old in a few days - it seems good enough. There are no problems from diabetes, I am still able to do things, even do some work.

Thank you
I have to work on acceptance in lots of areas, not just diabetes. Well done you on maintaining low 40s over time.

 

[VashtiB]

Hi @Margarettt

First of all- no need to apologise on here for having a vent. I completely understand. It is so challenging when you work so hard and don't get the results you hoped for. It is so easy to feel like giving up. Here though you have a group of people who really do understand the work you've done and the results you've got. This is the best place in the world to vent and then carry on

I think what you have already achieved is amazing.

I do understand how easy it is for the carbs in the snacks to creep up. I self fund a Libre a couple of times a year just to get my mojo back. It helps me get back to the basics.

You already know that things like stress etc can affect the numbers- my suggestion is to concentrate on the thing you can control (carbs) and accept the things you can't.

It does take time and it is tough when you don't get the results you want but- you have achieved a great deal so don't forget to give yourself the credit for doing something a lot of doctors don't think is at all possible- you have achieved better figures with no medication. Great work.

 

[jjraak]

Hi @Margarettt

A hug from a stranger, and another "don't apologise "
Ranting to those who share our trenches, fight the same enemy & understand the journey best IS why most of us make this long term & don't just walk away after the first, second, third ad infinitum bump in the road.

Some absolutely marvellous posts above.

A few lines stood out

@TheSecretCarbAddict
"The real important bit is to sustain this long term as that will help you avoid any long-term complications"....

Whatever YOU are doing now, each day regardless of your numbers, in just being aware and doing what you do is reducing the chances of complications day after day.

@Paul_

"you're doing a fantastic job and that's despite how you feel, the rough time you've had post knee surgery,"

Two years+ since surgery here, been there , done that.
My god those bumps in the road after big ops begin to rival the himalaya's don't they.

I found I couldn't fight on too many battles, so picked one enemy at a time to try to conquer, all the rest in life had to quietly wait it's turn.....so KUDOS + Bravo to you for being anywhere close let alone at such great numbers..

@jpscloud

"The thing people say to those who are carers with no time for themselves is "Don't forget to make time for yourself!" as though there is some magical switch you can flick to turn off the responsibilities and obligations. But if it's possible for you, make a stand on having you time and don't budge."

I'd double second & triple that 100%
That IS someone who's walked that walk .
<Respect>

@JoKalsbeek as always on point, but this gem

"they come from what's stored in the liver, and it's stored in there as fats... And you're shedding that, you're healing"

Bang on.

@Resurgam
"My day to day numbers are normal. I just had to accept that 42 was my normal."

We sometimes need to accept we really are individuals.

I really tried to drive my daily readings down below 5...but under 5..yuk
I just felt utterly sick, off the pace, wretched.

I finally, like resurgam, made my peace with the fact below isn't normal for ME .(I think Sinead O'Connor had a song about the wisdom of what we can & can't do )

And @VashtiB nails it perfectly.
"my suggestion is to concentrate on the thing you can control (carbs) and accept the things you can't.

It does take time and it is tough when you don't get the results you want but- you have achieved a great deal so don't forget to give yourself the credit for doing something a lot of doctors don't think is at all possible- you have achieved better figures with no medication. Great work"

Couldn't have put it better.

Best wishes for the journey to come

There will be more blips & bumps to come.
And it's ok to be jolted & unsettled by them.

We just got to learn to hold on tight or if the worst happens remember to jump back on the wagon when the road ahead gets a little smoother.

 

[Margarettt]

I do understand how easy it is for the carbs in the snacks to creep up. I self fund a Libre a couple of times a year just to get my mojo back. It helps me get back to the basics.

Thanks @VashtiB Such understanding and empathy here on the forum.
I think some sort of CGM is my next step.Its messy because my phone is one of the few that is not compatible with libre and it seems messy to have a second phone and have to swap sim cards etc yet I really like my phone so I have been putting it off.

 

[Margarettt]

Hi @Margarettt

A hug from a stranger, and another "don't apologise "
Ranting to those who share our trenches, fight the same enemy & understand the journey best IS why most of us make this long term & don't just walk away after the first, second, third ad infinitum bump in the road.

Some absolutely marvellous posts above.

A few lines stood out

@TheSecretCarbAddict
"The real important bit is to sustain this long term as that will help you avoid any long-term complications"....

Whatever YOU are doing now, each day regardless of your numbers, in just being aware and doing what you do is reducing the chances of complications day after day.

@Paul_

"you're doing a fantastic job and that's despite how you feel, the rough time you've had post knee surgery,"

Two years+ since surgery here, been there , done that.
My god those bumps in the road after big ops begin to rival the himalaya's don't they.

I found I couldn't fight on too many battles, so picked one enemy at a time to try to conquer, all the rest in life had to quietly wait it's turn.....so KUDOS + Bravo to you for being anywhere close let alone at such great numbers..

@jpscloud

"The thing people say to those who are carers with no time for themselves is "Don't forget to make time for yourself!" as though there is some magical switch you can flick to turn off the responsibilities and obligations. But if it's possible for you, make a stand on having you time and don't budge."

I'd double second & triple that 100%
That IS someone who's walked that walk .
<Respect>
View attachment 67018

@JoKalsbeek as always on point, but this gem

"they come from what's stored in the liver, and it's stored in there as fats... And you're shedding that, you're healing"

Bang on.

@Resurgam
"My day to day numbers are normal. I just had to accept that 42 was my normal."

We sometimes need to accept we really are individuals.

I really tried to drive my daily readings down below 5...but under 5..yuk
I just felt utterly sick, off the pace, wretched.

I finally, like resurgam, made my peace with the fact below isn't normal for ME .(I think Sinead O'Connor had a song about the wisdom of what we can & can't do )

And @VashtiB nails it perfectly.
"my suggestion is to concentrate on the thing you can control (carbs) and accept the things you can't.

It does take time and it is tough when you don't get the results you want but- you have achieved a great deal so don't forget to give yourself the credit for doing something a lot of doctors don't think is at all possible- you have achieved better figures with no medication. Great work"

Couldn't have put it better.

Best wishes for the journey to come

There will be more blips & bumps to come.
And it's ok to be jolted & unsettled by them.

We just got to learn to hold on tight or if the worst happens remember to jump back on the wagon when the road ahead gets a little smoother.

Thank you @jjraak I don't have words to explain the gratitude I feel towards you for this post. Your virtual hug is gratefully accepted and I have bookmarked your post for when I need it.

 

[shelley262]

Gosh some wonderful informative replies on here - such lovely people on this forum.
Just wanted to add my hugs and support for you. You are doing so well.
I'd also agree with the stress impact comment. I've found that as a carer stress is one of the main things that puts my bgs up and I've seen this so many times over the years. Hard I know but it's particularly important to try and work on emptying your full stress bucket before you go to bed especially. I do headspace, a mindfulness app, for 15 mins every evening before bed and if I miss my bgs in the morning are higher. As a ritual turning off my phone and tablet and then doing my relaxation before heading to bed with relaxing music and a good book to help better sleep. Maybe find a good pre bedtime relaxation routine as a way of managing your stress?
You are doing great - build in some time for you.

 

[Margarettt]

Gosh some wonderful informative replies on here - such lovely people on this forum.
Just wanted to add my hugs and support for you. You are doing so well.
I'd also agree with the stress impact comment. I've found that as a carer stress is one of the main things that puts my bgs up and I've seen this so many times over the years. Hard I know but it's particularly important to try and work on emptying your full stress bucket before you go to bed especially. I do headspace, a mindfulness app, for 15 mins every evening before bed and if I miss my bgs in the morning are higher. As a ritual turning off my phone and tablet and then doing my relaxation before heading to bed with relaxing music and a good book to help better sleep. Maybe find a good pre bedtime relaxation routine as a way of managing your stress?
You are doing great - build in some time for you.

And yet another lovely reply from yourself @shelley262 Thank you. I use headspace every morning along with some journalling and reading. I'm an early sort so really don't find falling asleep a problem. I do get up to visit the loo two or 3 times a night if DP kicks in every time my numbers will be high all night.
Time for a CGM methinks.