Salt advice please.

[photognut]

Since adopting lchf and currently low calorie to reduce weight putting the Newcastle theory to the test, I've experienced cramping in legs and feet plus energy levels are starting to wane. I'm attributing this to a salt deficiency?

The usual standard advice given to heart patients and diabetics is reduce salt intake.... I'm thinking this is another area that needs, tweaking???

Is anyone having to adjust and incorporate additional salt intake into their lifestyles, if so, how much?

Thanks

 

[Squire Fulwood]

Excessive salt potentially gives you heart problems but the body needs salt as an electrolyte and you cannot go totally without. The current recommendation is that you have up to 6 gms of salt a day.

I have a sister who demonstrates the excessive salt problem. She puts half a salt cellar on her dinner and only stops when she notices people staring. She has stents in her ateries to keep them open.

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/1138.aspx?CategoryID=51

 

[Pasha]

Since adopting lchf and currently low calorie to reduce weight putting the Newcastle theory to the test, I've experienced cramping in legs and feet plus energy levels are starting to wane. I'm attributing this to a salt deficiency?

The usual standard advice given to heart patients and diabetics is reduce salt intake.... I'm thinking this is another area that needs, tweaking???

Is anyone having to adjust and incorporate additional salt intake into their lifestyles, if so, how much?

Thanks

Low Magnesium is also another possible cause, or lack of balance between sodium and potassium. If you have heart problems it would be best to consult with your doctor.
Oh yes ,dont forget dehydration also.

 

[photognut]

Low Magnesium is also another possible cause, or lack of balance between sodium and potassium. If you have heart problems it would be best to consult with your doctor.
Oh yes ,dont forget dehydration also.

Thanks Pasha. I take 1000mg of Magnesium a day and also ensure adequate potassium and water intake.......As for talking to doc & cardiologist on nutritional and Orthomolecular topics, I wish!! Unfortunately ... they treat me as the Anti-Christ for finding a path that my body responds well too
I don't have high blood pressure, think I will just include a good dose of Celtic and Himalayan salt into the equation and monitor over the next week.
Thanks.

 

[dunelm]

As Pasha has hinted, you may want to consider water balance. Low levels of water in the body can lead to a drop in your salt levels,. Try increasing water intake, especially before you go to bed.
If that does not work then you may wish to consult with your GP.

 

[photognut]

As Pasha has hinted, you may want to consider water balance. Low levels of water in the body can lead to a drop in your salt levels,. Try increasing water intake, especially before you go to bed.
If that does not work then you may wish to consult with your GP.

Thanks, totally agree - I drink 2 + litres of filtered water a day.
Think I may have come across the solution by reading through http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/fat-fast-starting-monday-3rd-august.80812/page-3#post-909757 thread where Merrylizard1314 recommends: Jeff Volek and Stephen Phinney have written a book ,called The Art and Science of Low Carb Living.
I've just had a quick glimpse of the contents on Amazon. To my delight, it emphasises the need for salt intake on a low carb diet...... I've downloaded the kindle version to my laptop. Since picking up on that juicy bit of information. I've stumbled across something called "Sole" water that is saturated with minerals, plucked this link out of the many http://www.thealternativedaily.com/7-reasons-drink-warm-salt-water-every-morning/

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Thanks Pasha. I take 1000mg of Magnesium a day and also ensure adequate potassium and water intake.......As for talking to doc & cardiologist on nutritional and Orthomolecular topics, I wish!! Unfortunately ... they treat me as the Anti-Christ for finding a path that my body responds well too
I don't have high blood pressure, think I will just include a good dose of Celtic and Himalayan salt into the equation and monitor over the next week.
Thanks.

I think people are suggesting you see your doctor because electrolyte balance is really important and unless you have a blood test for sodium and other mineral levels, you're not in a position to know whether you have a salt deficiency or not. Ordinary table salt is just as good for your body as Celtic and Himalayan salt. What are the "nutritional and Orthomolecular" topics you have talked with your doctors about that make them concerned?

 

[photognut]

I think people are suggesting you see your doctor because electrolyte balance is really important and unless you have a blood test for sodium and other mineral levels, you're not in a position to know whether you have a salt deficiency or not. Ordinary table salt is just as good for your body as Celtic and Himalayan salt. What are the "nutritional and Orthomolecular" topics you have talked with your doctors about that make them concerned?

I am not ignoring peoples advice - Due to my intolerance to allot of pharma meds I have a substantial supplement regime for my heart condition. Extensive research led me to progressive American Cardiologists that integrate alternative with traditional medicine, thinking outside of UK tick boxes. I don't want to get into a debate of why it is pointless going to my GP on this issue........
If we all had faith in what our medical profession told us, we would all be eating bread, grain, potatoes and rice - wouldn't we?

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I am not ignoring peoples advice - Due to my intolerance to allot of pharma meds I have a substantial supplement regime for my heart condition. Extensive research led me to progressive American Cardiologists that integrate alternative with traditional medicine, thinking outside of UK tick boxes. I don't want to get into a debate of why it is pointless going to my GP on this issue........
If we all had faith in what our medical profession told us, we would all be eating bread, grain, potatoes and rice - wouldn't we?

Was just asking a question, not trying to debate anything. It is possible to have faith in medicine without eating a high carb diet. Many doctors recommend a low carb diet, I know most NZ doctors do.

 

[Robbity]

I used to get very bad leg cramps when I was on diuretics, and extra potassium (in the form of now "forbidden" bananas) cured this for me.

Robbity

 

[Pasha]

Upsetting the sodium -potassium balance can cause irregular heart beats ie Arrythmia and even atrial fibrillation.

 

[Daibell]

I think people's salt needs vary. My wife takes a high salt intake to help with her cramps and has low blood pressure so doesn't worry about a possible BP increase. I personally think the 'avoid salt' mantra is likely to be proven a bit misplaced but those with specific conditions do need to take care and discuss with the GP. As we often say, 'we are all different'

 

[photognut]

There is so much conflicting information - On one side you have the majority of health professionals and scientists who say salt is bad for you, based on how many studies? then you have the percentage of health professionals and scientists who say the opposite..... I guess the correct one is the one that works for you. Magnesium sorted out my angina, a whole array of other vitamins, enzymes, etc do other things.
My body is telling me something is currently out of whack, I had a good dose of salt water yesterday and by the evening balance is starting to return. This is indicating that the information in the above book about low carb and the correlation / causal relationship for additional salt intake may be correct, time will tell.
This morning I had a meeting with an Anaesthetist at the hospital, who wanted to send me to see my Cardiologist re:supplements before agreeing to operate on my knee. I explained what my supplements did, how they work, which ones are blood thinners and which ones I would discontinue, which ones I would not - I earned his respect because I could tell him why, providing studies to back it up. I am no longer being sent to the Cardiologist and now awaiting an appointment for the op.
Different countries also have different medical tests, blood works - health care systems, procedures, pharmaceutical drugs are not globally standard in their service quality and deliverance of.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

Salt is an essential dietary requirement. That's why they issue salt tablets to troops when they go to hot countries. There was a panic when a study found that excessive salt caused disease of the arteries. I find that people like to take things to extremes so after the study people tried to eliminate salt from their diet. Many of them got away with it since junk food often contains salt as well as sugar and flour.

Low carbing or just eating proper food might lower your salt intake since real food has not had things like salt added. You might have to add it yourself just like in the old days. As I said above, the current recommendation for adults is up to 6 gms a day. Having none is not an option.

 

[Winnie53]

@photognut sounds like you've got this sorted out.

For those wondering, 6g salt is approximately 1 teaspoon of salt...

table salt conversion.
Amount: 1 teaspoon (tsp) of table salt volume
Equals: 5.69 grams (g) in table salt mass
http://www.traditionaloven.com/culinary-arts/cooking/table-salt/convert-tea-spoon-tsp-to-gram-g.html

I had a lot of questions about this too when I started the LCHF diet in February. Was having lots of muscle cramps.

I talked to a well respected nutritionist in our community, and she told me that the body is quite good at recycling salt, so my daily needs may vary. I finally settled into a routine of taking 150 mg magnesium citrate with each meal, 99 mg potassium citrate with breakfast, and salt as needed.

I make sure I stay hydrated throughout the day by drinking tea and water alternately. When I feel bad - (in general, or with a slight headache, or perhaps my throat doesn't feel quite right) - and/or am more thirsty than normal, I drink a 1/2 teaspoon of salt dissolved in a cup of hot water. Works like a charm. BUT I worked up to it. I started with a 1/4 teaspoon of salt, then after I got used to it, I began using 1/2 of salt dissolved in a cup of hot water. It's also soothing to the throat.

I no longer eat processed foods, nor do I add salt to my food, so I probably drink the above salted water twice a week, more often if it's hot or if I'm urinating more than normal (which likely means I'm losing electrolytes). I weigh 145 pounds.

When first starting the LCHF diet, and coming off all those awful processed foods, more salt is often needed. Drinking a cup or two of broth each day works too, but there's the cost to consider, also all the other things added to the broth.

How much salt each person needs probably varies quite a bit. It's a process of trial and error.

 

[photognut]

Squire - not arguing with you, I'm agreeing.

Have found a research paper published in the American Journal of Medicine Nov 2013. Titled: Dietary Sodium Restriction: Take It with a Grain of Salt.

PDF here http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(13)00594-9/pdf

Content, claims to benefit type 2 diabetics and heart patients....some bold conclusions.

 

[Winnie53]

@photognut interesting article. Thanks for posting it.

I'm being lazy so skipped to the diabetes section. This is important information. And makes me think I should start supplementing with salt daily (because I'm on LCHF diet, don't eat processed foods, and don't add salt to my food). Here it is...


Salt and Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus

In patients with type 2 diabetes mellitus, a low sodium diet

has been associated with increased cardiovascular and

all-cause mortality.7 Even moderate salt reduction may lead

to increased activation of the sympathetic nervous system

and renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system, and insulin

resistance.

A cohort study7 enrolled 638 diabetic persons who were

consistently followed for a period of 9.9 years. Their baseline

urinary sodium excretion levels

were 184 73 mmol/24 hours,

which remained constant throughout

the study duration. Urinary

sodium levels were inversely

related to the all-cause mortality

rate (P < .001) and cardiovascular

mortality rate (sub-hazard ratio

---

, 0.65; confidence interval

[CI], 0.44-0.95; P ¼ .03). Each

100 mmol increase in the urinary

sodium excretion led to a decrease

in all-cause mortality of 28% (95%

CI, 6-45; P ¼ .02). This study

implies a potential contraindication

to a low sodium diet not only in

those with type 2 diabetes mellitus but also by extension in

the general population because of the widespread prevalence

of type 2 diabetes mellitus. This leads to the question, are the

current dietary guideline recommendations for a low sodium

diet in the general population (including type 2 diabetes

mellitus) appropriate? The limitation index of these data is

that the results are based on a cohort study examining urinary

sodium excretion levels versus a randomized controlled trial

of patients receiving identical diets, with the only variation

being the amount of sodium intake.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

Squire - not arguing with you, I'm agreeing.

Bless you my gnut.

 

[Merrylizard1314]

That is an interesting article,@photognut, thank you. And also @Winnie53

I was really interested in the recommendation that "normal sodium (4-6g/d) in addition to a high potassium intake, may be best for the general population."
Only the other day, I googled a lecture by Dr Mark Houston, where the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone system was outlined clearly.
So it would appear, from both sources that neither artificially low nor high sodium is ideal, but the Goldilocks' solution is the gold standard.

 

[Winnie53]

@Merrylizard1314 Mark Houston is a well respected cardiologist in the US, and the author of a number of books. He also studied nutrition. Would be interested in a link to his presentation if it's public.