A w(h)ine about weight loss (or not as the case may be)

[IanBish]

Hello,

I've lost 4 stone over the past 11 months, but this last month I've dropped maybe a pound. Now, I'll be honest, I drink about half to three quarters of a bottle of red wine most evenings. I do it because I'm used to it. I've been mainly low carb most of that time.

I'm feeling a bit deflated (I wish) because I thought I'd be further along my weight loss journey (I hate that word) by now. Summer is on its way, and I'm still fat.

My question is, I've been drinking the same or similar while losing the 4 stone. I'm still eating low carb. I'm still fasting for 16 hours, because I'm not hungry. So why has it stopped? I know that our livers prioritise clearing the alcohol over anything else. And I get that. But why did I consistently lose weight while continuing to drink the wine, but am now not?

I haven't gained any weight overall, which is good. But I haven't lost any either. Which is a bit disheartening.

I think I know what the answer may be. But I'd just like your thoughts.

 

[lovinglife]

Weight loss is not linear, 4 stone in 11 months is a great weight loss and not to be sniffed at. I lost over 11st and it took me over 2 years to do that, I had occasions where I didn’t lose for a few weeks or gained a few pounds for no apparent reason but the weight loss would start again when my body was ready. Do you measure yourself? I used to measure my waist, bum & upper thighs and used to find that I may not have lost weight but I was still losing inches.

Just keep going doing what you are doing. Not here to tell anyone what to drink etc, I love a drink myself but don’t drink often, only when we have guests or I’m out. Maybe cut down to one glass of wine a night see if that kick starts anything?

One thing I did notice for me personally when I got to about 5st loss was that too much dairy would stall my weight loss or cause a gain, I reduced my cheese, cream, butter a bit and ate more avocado & good olive oil & nut oils, I used Fage fat free Greek yoghurt instead of cream and even though it’s dairy I seemed to manage better with that. (I buy the fat free because I prefer the taste and it’s still low carb enough for me on keto) and that helped a lot.

I gained 7lb at Christmas and that was because of the extra cheese & double cream that I no longer eat as a regular thing. Once I went back to my usual way of eating I lost the gain & more - I’m now an extra 7lb down.


What I also did, as like I said weight loss isn’t linear and we can go up and down by the day or week or even the hour. I stopped weighing myself every week and in,y weighed in the first day of every month - as long as I was lighter than the previous month I counted it as a win.

Edited to correct stupid predictive text

 

[MissMuffett]

Have you thought about setting yourself a challenge like only having one medium glass of red wine for the month of April and see if that provides results? I love wine but in the last year I’ve felt very strange after just half a glass! I blame it on my diabetes and liver getting old although my liver function test is normal. It’s been a pain trying to find something else to drink if I join friends at the pub but fortunately that isn’t very often.

 

[ianf0ster]

The human body is very complicated, otherwise we would all get the same results from cutting carbs, cutting calories, exercising more etc.
It likes things to stay the same, so it tries hard to avoid weight loss and also to avoid weight gain.
Perhaps it just needs time to adjust to the current situation, or perhaps your carbs or calories are at a point where further weight loss is difficult.
Alcohol is highly calorific.

 

[Beating-My-Betes]

I'm going with Occam on this one:

The average 100ml of red wine seems to come in at about 80 calories, so a 750ml comes in at 600 calories. You'll obviously need to scale his to your personal consumption.

As a reference point, a McDonald's Big Mac is also 600 calories. So, from what you said, you could be putting away the equivalent energy of about 4 Big Macs per-week.

 

[Pipp]

Are you exercising, too, @IanBish ? Muscle mass is heavier than fat mass.

 

[Pipp]

I would add that although some people say that as long as they stay low carb / keto, they don’t gain weight. (I am so envious). It doesn’t work that way for me. I have to watch my cheese, dairy, nut intake or I pile the weight on. Despite sticking to less than 60gr carbs a day.

 

[KennyA]

My weight loss wasn't and isn't linear. I've had a weight loss plateau recently for around 6-8 months but have lost about 5 kg in March, without anything changing. The one thing I've noticed is that an intake change (any change, some additional carb seemed to work) sometimes restarted the process.

I wouldn't worry too much and you might want to give it a bit longer? I don't think it's your red wine consumption, if you were steadily losing on it up to recently.

 

[Beating-My-Betes]

I would add that although some people say that as long as they stay low carb / keto, they don’t gain weight. (I am so envious). It doesn’t work that way for me. I have to watch my cheese, dairy, nut intake or I pile the weight on. Despite sticking to less than 60gr carbs a day.

When I first joined this community many claimed the ability to eat any amounts of fat without gaining weight. but as the years went on, a few mentioned that they can't actually eat ad-libitum fats. It's clear how this happens.

 

[ianf0ster]

When I first joined this community many claimed the ability to eat any amounts of fat without gaining weight. but as the years went on, a few mentioned that they can't actually eat ad-libitum fats. It's clear how this happens.

Nick Norwitz just posted a video eating a huge amount of butter per day, an extra 4K Calories per day, yet over a week he lost weight (slightly), his objective was to gain weight but lower LDL. So short term in his case and most people here who try low carb, one can eat almost any amount of fat and lose weight, but he suspects that in the long term it may well be a different matter.
Certainly, as a TOFI, when I had lost a bit more weight than I wanted (and got BG and HbA1C to normal), I found adding around an extra 600KCals per day in the form of cheese and nuts did the trick and I gained the extra pounds I wanted without compromising my T2D remission.

 

[IanBish]

Weight loss is not linear, 4 stone in 11 months is a great weight loss and not to be sniffed at.

I know, but I'm running out of Vitamin P.

Have you thought about setting yourself a challenge like only having one medium glass of red wine for the month of April and see if that provides results?

I could try a large. I'll see what I can do.

The human body is very complicated, otherwise we would all get the same results from cutting carbs, cutting calories, exercising more etc.
It likes things to stay the same, so it tries hard to avoid weight loss and also to avoid weight gain.

The homeostasis thing. I know that's good and safe, but it can be infuriating.

As a reference point, a McDonald's Big Mac is also 600 calories. So, from what you said, you could be putting away the equivalent energy of about 4 Big Macs per-week.

I've never had a Big Mac. And I haven't had a burger in the last year. But point taken.

Are you exercising, too, @IanBish ? Muscle mass is heavier than fat mass.

No more than I have been really.

I wouldn't worry too much and you might want to give it a bit longer? I don't think it's your red wine consumption, if you were steadily losing on it up to recently.

Thanks. I'll get some more Vitamin P in.

When I first joined this community many claimed the ability to eat any amounts of fat without gaining weight. but as the years went on, a few mentioned that they can't actually eat ad-libitum fats. It's clear how this happens.

I think the (dietary) fat may have been increasing recently. Also, I've been eating more nuts than I started off with. Maybe a bit more dark chocolate too.

But thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I appreciate it.

 

[HairySmurf]

Nick Norwitz just posted a video eating a huge amount of butter per day, an extra 4K Calories per day, yet over a week he lost weight (slightly), his objective was to gain weight but lower LDL. So short term in his case and most people here who try low carb, one can eat almost any amount of fat and lose weight, but he suspects that in the long term it may well be a different matter.

Did he mention in the video how he went about weighing his bowel movements and analysing their fat content? How did he go about measuring the water content of his body before and after the experiment? Seems like a very tricky experiment to do in a way that wouldn't have every scientist on the planet laughing themselves silly.

@IanBish - 4 stone is a huge amount of weight. Imagine carrying around 25 litres of water in a backpack, all day every day, and how much less energy you now expend with every step you take, with every flight of stairs you climb. Low carb dieting does mess with calories-in/calories-out maths in several ways, but it's not sorcery. Every breath you take and every beat of your heart requires energy that can only come from food. The energy comes from the molecular bonds between atoms in (primarily) the carbohydrates and fats you eat, the energy being released as those molecules are broken down into carbon dioxide and water. If you don't get enough energy from food and your body can't compensate enough by doing things like slowing down your resting heart rate to preserve energy you will burn fat, if you have it, or muscle if you don't, or a combination of both. If it didn't work that way your heart would stop beating and you'd die. I have yet to read the tale of the person with a 40 inch waist who died of starvation.

Whether it's energy in the alcohol in the wine which becomes fat when the liver is done converting it, or any source of energy in your food, if you cut your energy intake by a substantial amount your body won't be able to compensate for it and you'll start losing weight again. Or exercise a lot more, if you can. Or both. I find it easier to do both, little by little every few weeks, because cutting back drastically on food leaves me hungry, and exercising a lot more leaves me sore and exhausted. Make some changes, wait a week to see how they've worked, and if it's not working keep making changes until the weight is dropping off at the rate you want. Ignore the Nick Norwitzes of this world.

Congratulations on the 4 stone by the way - it's a fantastic achievement!

 

[MrsA2]

@IanBish
A smaller body needs less, and your body is considerably smaller than it was, well done!
It's up to you which or what foods or drink you reduce, or whether you increase movement or fasting durations instead - or as well!
It may be any or all the above, whatever suits your body

Sounds like your body has adapted to what it's getting currently and needs a bit of a nudge

 

[IanBish]

Whether it's energy in the alcohol in the wine which becomes fat when the liver is done converting it, or any source of energy in your food, if you cut your energy intake by a substantial amount your body won't be able to compensate for it and you'll start losing weight again. Or exercise a lot more, if you can. Or both. I find it easier to do both, little by little every few weeks, because cutting back drastically on food leaves me hungry, and exercising a lot more leaves me sore and exhausted. Make some changes, wait a week to see how they've worked, and if it's not working keep making changes until the weight is dropping off at the rate you want. Ignore the Nick Norwitzes of this world.

Congratulations on the 4 stone by the way - it's a fantastic achievement!

Thank you. It's been dead easy, up till now. I know that increased exercise leads to an increase in appetite overall. But I have seriously been considering joining the local gym lately to do some resistance training to help with my insulin resistance. I may also go on the treadmill; they used to be fun!

I'll also try cutting down a bit on the fat that I eat, along with the nuts and the 85% dark chocolate. Plus the wine!

But failing that, I'll try the ketosis thing. I quite like the idea of being fat adapted and metabolically flexible. A bit like a hybrid car.

 

[IanBish]

@IanBish
A smaller body needs less, and your body is considerably smaller than it was, well done!
It's up to you which or what foods or drink you reduce, or whether you increase movement or fasting durations instead - or as well!
It may be any or all the above, whatever suits your body

Sounds like your body has adapted to what it's getting currently and needs a bit of a nudge

@HairySmurf alluded to that too. I hadn't really thought about that much. But it makes sense. Thanks.

As an aside, I went out to the local club for a pint earlier, and virtually every bloke that walked in had a big pot belly. It seems normal now, bit I know it shouldn't be that way. Vanity aside, I want to get healthy. I don't want to get skinny (as if) but just lose another three stone, when I should be a lot healthier, and I'll see how I feel then.

 

[Outlier]

As an experiment (bearing in mind that we are all different) you might want to try what I do re: the red wine. I have one glass, sipped very slowly, after my evening meal (it slips down too quickly if drunk with the meal). How big a glass? A bottle lasts me five days. I have two bottles a month and am teetotal the rest of the time. Now on the last knockings of my weight-loss (I want to lose another 8 lb which will take me to what I was in my 20s and 30s) I find weight reduces very slowly and plateaus at any excuse. On "wine" days I don't lose any but don't gain any either. Non-wine days I sometimes stay the same and other times lose a little. Weight loss for me now is glacially slow, but still happening. Maybe I have set myself too low a target, but I won't know until I get there, and when I do I don't intend to drink more wine.

 

[IanBish]

Thanks, @Outlier, that could be a plan. Although two glasses at first, maybe. I'm mentally preparing myself for a slower weight loss so as not to be too disheartened.

 

[Paul_]

First things first, well done on the weight loss, Ian. I'm also losing weight and it's not always easy, so what you've achieved so far is a credit to your lifestyle changes and dedication.

As others have said, weight loss isn't linear. Plateaus in weight loss are normal and are generally considered to be 4-6 weeks (or more) of no/stalled weight loss, despite controlling calorie intake. Things I've found along the way while losing weight:

1) Let's get this one out the way - alcohol. Personally speaking, it seems to kill my metabolism. This has become more obvious as I've lost weight and my BMR has reduced. I've seen a lot of people talking about the same experience anecdotally. For me, alcohol also increases my cravings for all the bad foods in terms of weight loss and diabetes. Dialling down alcohol consumption, or cutting it out completely for a period, can help kick start weight loss again. Equally though, if non-problematic levels of alcohol consumption bring us joy, relaxation and social benefits, these are important factors too. No lecture is intended by this point, we're all grown ups and we all know the relevant facts about alcohol and the decisions required.

2) Exercise is a double edged sword when it comes to weight loss. While highly beneficial for mental health, metabolism, controlling BG levels, cardio fitness, mobility and joint health and any number of other factors, exercise makes us hungry. Some people recommend eating back half or more of exercise calories, however in my experience it's better not to and instead time exercise sessions for before or after meal times. This way, you get all the benefits of exercise, but without having to fight the exercise induced food cravings.

3) Maintaining weight is still a win, even if you've still got more to lose. This is a recent acceptance for me, it's been a battle to get my head into this zone over the last 8 months. Also, let's say we are successful and hit our weight targets. When we do, we'll need to maintain weight, not lose, so I try to view periods of maintenance as a learning opportunity now. I have zero experience with a maintenance diet, so arguably it's better to learn bit by bit, rather than have to work it all out when I have to suddenly do it.

4) Tracking my food intake on an app and weighing portions has been invaluable for my diet and weight loss. Granted, it's not for everyone, but portion control has never been a strength of mine so it keeps that in check. Portion creep is the enemy of any diet and humans are generally terrible at eye-balling quantities.

5) Overall, I've overcome weight loss plateaus by mixing things up to keep my metabolism guessing and getting it out of a rut. Intermittent 16:8 fasting, dropping daily calorie intake by 100-200 calories, increasing daily calorie intake to maintenance levels for a week and dropping them back down after that, limiting carbs to less than 20g per day, reducing/cutting out alcohol, upping exercise amounts, changing exercise routines etc. Any and all of those seem to work for me.

Whatever you do, keep up the great work and effort mate. You've done so well with your weight loss and hba1c, so as hard as it can be psychologically, don't let a weight loss plateau detract from those phenomenal achievements!

 

[IanBish]

Hi Paul,

You make some good points.

1) You maybe right about alcohol affecting BMR. I've been feeling a bit cold recently, so maybe my BMR has gone down.
2) I know exercise increases appetite, but it's good for insulin resistance.
3) I think I may be getting a bit too obsessive over this. A bit of acceptance would probably go a long way.
4) I've never used a tracker, and doubt I'll start, but thanks for the info.
5) I almost always don't eat until after midday, so that's a 16:8 intermittent fasting too.

I'm quite surprised how easy it was to cut out all sugars, bananas, cakes, cereals, pasta, rice and commercial bread. I switched to LC bread, although I use sourdough sparingly. I mainly have cauliflower rice, with an occasional small egg fried rice. I have full-fat Greek yoghurt with blueberries, or a chopped up small Braeburn or Granny Smith.

Thanks for the encouragement. I think I need to give myself a break. Not from low carb, but from the overthinking.

Happy Easter to those that celebrate. I've got some 85% Peruvian dark chocolate. Easter eggs are a rip-off, anyway!

 

[Beating-My-Betes]

Perhaps try logging your intake for a while. Doesn't need to be an 'always and forever' thing, but it can be very illuminating to see just how these calories can easily pile up. I posted a similar comment in another thread, so I'll link to it here. The only difference I'd suggest for you is to log 'blind'. By that, I mean just weigh and write down your quantities, but don't log them into cronometer till th end of the week. That way you have a better chance of escaping the 'Hawthorne effect'

The link: #6