Advice on water regulation please

[johnnyxs]

Hi all
Happy New Year to you . I'm a noob so please be easy on me.

When I get a chance I'll introduce myself properly and put together something about my past and current health.

For the moment I'd like to ask if prolonged continuous drinking is likely to cause damage in the short term and should i be trying to cut down .?

I have had a dreadful thirst for fluids since before the end of November 2015.
I have drunk so much and urinated so much for the past 40+ days that I am becoming seriously concerned for my my long term health.
Recorded levels over 24hrs on the 13th December was 6.5L fluid intake 7.4 urinated. It was actually a little higher than this as I neglected to record a few drinks and wee's throughout the day as I am a 24/7 carer and pretty busy.

I cannot stop drinking its like I need a drink to stay alive. I'll drink a large mug or tumbler of milk then fill the glass and drink another straight away . I'm so full of fluids I can feel it sloshing around my stomach. The moment I've drunk a glass I need to urinate urgently and pass the same amount of clear urine.

My Dr said there was nothing wrong with me and refuses to treat any of the other health issues I have such as chronic UTI's for the past 15 years and unstable Hypothyroiditus for the past 20 years.

I am awaiting an appointment for some blood and urine tests at the Hospital following a consultation with the Endocrinologist on 3rd of December .
he has requested Adrenaline Nor-Adrenaline , testoterone. and TSH FT4 FT3 VitD EDTA(2) EDTA(1) and basically a full panel.

The duty Dr at my surgery also ordered EDTA purple top FI /Oxalate and SST (yelow Top ) ? to be aded to the Hospital tests .
This has now been delayed over Christmas and new year so I'll not get an results until probably end of January .
In the meantime I've lost 19 ibs weight in 5 weeks and feel nauseous all the time and cannot stop drinking.

Apologies for the long post but I've tried to give you a very brief history of my health this past 2 months .
I don't mind admitting I'm scared as to what is happening to me .
I appreciate that I have high blood and urine sugar levels (8.3 mmol/L) and the body is trying to excrete sugar so I'm on a low sugar diet but I just feel my health is completely out of control and I have nobody to talk to.
best wishes Johnny

 

[mfactor]

Sounds like me when I was first diagnosed, be aware its not just sugar that is the problem , Carbs can often be the culprit (it is for me)


Could you show us your diet , and then maybe we can help

Tagging @daisy1 for her advice..

 

[Totto]

Hi @johnnyxs Thirst is one of many symptoms of diabetes mellitus but also of diabetes insipidus. While waiting for the tests you could try and get your blood glucose level down. Unfortunately not only sugar but also starch. So cut down on potatoes, rice, cereal, bread and such too and your BG might improve.

Or go to a&e as your weightloss is worrying too. Do you test BG?

Have you had cortisol tested?

 

[johnnyxs]

Hi @johnnyxs Thirst is one of many symptoms of diabetes mellitus but also of diabetes insipidus. While waiting for the tests you could try and get your blood glucose level down. Unfortunately not only sugar but also starch. So cut down on potatoes, rice, cereal, bread and such too and your BG might improve.

Or go to a&e as your weightloss is worrying too. Do you test BG?

Have you had cortisol tested?

Thank you Totto and mfactor
i havent had Cortisol tested since Jan 2015 when it was 403 nmol/L
I'm sorry I should have said that I am eliminating almost all of my reguar carb intake since before Christmas when I first matched my symptoms to possible Diabetes . I eat very little sugar anyway but there are all the hidden sugars in cake and biscuits and cereals which go unnoticed . I loved my carbs .......

I have ordered the SD Code free blood sugar tester yesterday so I shall soon be able to monitor my blood sugar levels which should hopefullly help me to keep the levels down. At the moment I have no idea how high they are even with cutting my carbs and sugar.

 

[Lazybones]

You are showing many of the classic symptoms of uncontrolled diabetes, but without knowing if it's solely down to diabetes it's impossible for any of us to say that you have this condition as apart from diabetes it can also be put down to a number of other medical conditions, though diabetes is the most likely.
You need to get yourself down to the A&E of your local hospital, a Well Man Clinic for a 'PROPER' diabetes check, failing this you could go to a local pharmacy that offers a simple blood test on the spot.
Bear in mind when you last ate and drank as this will influence the pharmacies reading. Please let us what you decide to do and if the pharmacy is involved, what readings they obtain and then we can best advise you.

 

[johnnyxs]

thank you for your suggestion lazybones .. great name by the way !

I have checked all of our local chemists within 10 mile radius and none have any testing facilities . We have no wellman clinic with testing facilities locally either unfortunately.
Our nearest A%E is a 30 mile round trip and I am unable to leave the house for even 15 minutes as my 94 year old father is severely disabled ,has advanced dementia and is doubly incontinent. I have no family or friends that can come and sit with him . its a difficult situation .

I am not so concerned about wether or not I have Diabetes for the moment........... my question is about fluid regulation .
I am hoping that someone else has also drank and passed these huge amounts of water for an extended period and can tell me what the risks are and what likely damage may be done in the short term.

 

[janeliz]

There is a section on diabetes insipidus on this site which maybe worth a read and explain your query.

 

[TorqPenderloin]

I am not so concerned about wether or not I have Diabetes for the moment........... my question is about fluid regulation .
I am hoping that someone else has also drank and passed these huge amounts of water for an extended period and can tell me what the risks are and what likely damage may be done in the short term.

I drank massive amounts of water (as much as 3gallons/11 liters per day) for an extended period of time (4-6 months) prior to my type 1 diagnosis.

In my case, drinking that much water was actually a GOOD thing. The reason I was drinking so much water is because my (untreated) diabetes was putting a tremendous amount of stress on my kidneys.

In a normal human being, insulin helps to remove excess glucose from your blood. In someone with diabetes, that process is inhibited. In order to avoid death, your body looks for another way to remove this excess glucose and waste from your blood. The alternative is through your kidneys. Long term, if left untreated, it WILL eventually lead to kidney failure.

A healthy kidney has very small filters that efficiently remove waste from your blood. High blood sugars cause those filters to become less efficient (larger). Over time, your kidneys can start to leak which means more than just waste is being filtered out into your urine. In the worst cases, it can lead to dialysis.

So to answer your question: the "risk" of drinking that much water is that you're putting less stress on your kidneys (hardly what I'd consider to be a bad thing). The bigger risk (if it's being caused by untreated diabetes) is whether or not you want to be on dialysis for the rest of your life.

You decide which is more important. Hopefully, that's enough to get you to see a doctor and figure out what is going on.

 

[Daibell]

Hi. You need to agree with the GP that you are or aren't diabetic. This needs a GTT test or preferably an Hba1C. I would lean on him to do an HBA1C test. You mention a bs reading of 8.3mmol which doesn't mean too much unless you know when it was taken and you also need more readings. 8.3mmol isn't by itself a high level and isn't enough to cause the kidneys to dump sugar which is why you need something like an HBa1C and a meter to check your levels 2 hours after meals. There could be other causes for your problems but diabetes needs to be confirmed or eliminated. Yes, sugar is just another carb so do adopt a low-carb diet.

 

[Totto]

thank you for your suggestion lazybones .. great name by the way !

I have checked all of our local chemists within 10 mile radius and none have any testing facilities . We have no wellman clinic with testing facilities locally either unfortunately.
Our nearest A%E is a 30 mile round trip and I am unable to leave the house for even 15 minutes as my 94 year old father is severely disabled ,has advanced dementia and is doubly incontinent. I have no family or friends that can come and sit with him . its a difficult situation .

I am not so concerned about wether or not I have Diabetes for the moment........... my question is about fluid regulation .
I am hoping that someone else has also drank and passed these huge amounts of water for an extended period and can tell me what the risks are and what likely damage may be done in the short term.

The water drunk and passed is not a problem as such. High BG will damage your organs though and if high enough lead to death.

Have you any sea salt in the house? If so, dissolve a teaspoon in a small glass of water and drink it. If you have low sodium, which is likely, you'll feel the benefit very soon.

Presumably you can leave the house when you see your doctor and when you go to have bloods done?

I had problems with polyuria some years ago, caused by the stress from untreated hypothyroidism. At the time both cortisol and sodium were low, not dangerously so though.

 

[CarbsRok]

What ever you do don't quench your thirst with milk as you have diabetes all it will do is shove your blood sugars up even more.
As others have said you also need to cut back on the carbs as much as possible.

I see you had a cortisol test and it was 403nmol/l, You need to query this as it's very borderline was it before or after stimulation if they didn't do an ACTH test then ask why.

 

[daisy1]

@johnnyxs

Hello Johnny and welcome to the forum As other members have suggested, your problem could be linked with high sugar levels even though you are limiting the carbs in your diet. Here is the information we give to new members and I hope that this will help you to keep your levels under control. I hope you get answers to your specific question soon from other members who have experience of this problem.

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find over 150,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes-and-whole-grains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

LOW CARB PROGRAM:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/low carb program


Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to bloodglucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

 

[ladybird64]

thank you for your suggestion lazybones .. great name by the way !

I have checked all of our local chemists within 10 mile radius and none have any testing facilities . We have no wellman clinic with testing facilities locally either unfortunately.
Our nearest A%E is a 30 mile round trip and I am unable to leave the house for even 15 minutes as my 94 year old father is severely disabled ,has advanced dementia and is doubly incontinent. I have no family or friends that can come and sit with him . its a difficult situation .

I am not so concerned about wether or not I have Diabetes for the moment........... my question is about fluid regulation .
I am hoping that someone else has also drank and passed these huge amounts of water for an extended period and can tell me what the risks are and what likely damage may be done in the short term.

Hi Johnny

Just a thought, are you registered with your GP practice as a carer? If you are, I'm wondering if it might be possible to get a home visit for a blood test. How do you manage for shopping etc? Not sure how you feel about it, but it may be the right time to contact Social services and ask for an urgent Carer's Assessment for yourself (it's not for dad). If you do have health issues, you are going to need to be able to have someone sit with your dad if necessary and it may be better to plan for this now.

I would usually have broached this subject by PM but am fairly sure that I can't send you one - hope you're not offended by what I've said.

 

[johnnyxs]

Thank you Daisy this is an excellent information starter for those new to Diabetes . i read it along with all the other stickys I could find when I registered .

Finally got to speak to both the local Hospital Diabetic clinic and my local Doctors surgery last night and I have arranged for all my the blood tests to be taken together at the surgery this morning.
I've persuaded them to include
Liver function test , Vit D and Vit B12 FT4 ,FT3, TSH, FBC, Cortisol, calcium, Foliate, Ferritin,
as well as plasma glucose level , IGF1 ,HBA1c drenaline Nor-Adrenaline and Testosterone phew!

It will be really interesting to see how everything has changed at the end of last year and of course to have Diabetes confirmed or ruled out .
Thank you for your input
Johnny

There is a section on diabetes insipidus on this site which maybe worth a read and explain your query.

thank you I'll do a little reading to get some insight thank you

@johnnyxs

Hello Johnny and welcome to the forum As other members have suggested, your problem could be linked with high sugar levels even though you are limiting the carbs in your diet. Here is the information we give to new members and I hope that this will help you to keep your levels under control. I hope you get answers to your specific question soon from other members who have experience of this problem.

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find over 150,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes-and-whole-grains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

LOW CARB PROGRAM:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/low carb program


Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to bloodglucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

 

[johnnyxs]

Hi Johnny

Just a thought, are you registered with your GP practice as a carer? If you are, I'm wondering if it might be possible to get a home visit for a blood test. How do you manage for shopping etc? Not sure how you feel about it, but it may be the right time to contact Social services and ask for an urgent Carer's Assessment for yourself (it's not for dad). If you do have health issues, you are going to need to be able to have someone sit with your dad if necessary and it may be better to plan for this now.

I would usually have broached this subject by PM but am fairly sure that I can't send you one - hope you're not offended by what I've said.

Thank you ladybird for your kind advice.I'm not offended in the least.
I have been my Fathers sole carer for the past seven years so naturally we have searched exhaustively for care support and financial support but although we are technically eligible for both we have in reality been unable to secure anything. .
In fact, five years ago I sought some LA Benefits and ended up being thrown out of my rented house after 16 years tenancy due to the malicicious acts of a Local Authority Benefits officer and the bedroom tax but thats another story
I trust that you will understand that I would not wish to divulge any of this on a public forum as it would attract the usual deluge of 'advice ' from those that know nothing of our personal circumstances and usually nothing about the reality of being a full time carer in todays Political climate of rapidly diminishing health care ..

A case in point is that sometime last year my surgery withdrew home visit blood tests which were so helpful to home bound carers like me.

 

[Lazybones]

Dear JohnnyXs,
Thanks for your reply. If you are the sole carer and can't get out then as you live within the UK it might be worth considering calling the Non-Emergency 111 NHS telephone number for help. Tell them your symptoms and why you cannot get out yourself leaving your disabled father with no carer.
If whoever you speak with on the telephone at the NHS Helpline is unable to help you on the spot, they usually arrange for a qualified GP to call you back and even for a Mobile GP in your area to call by your home.
If a mobile GP calls then he/she will be able to check you over and administer a Blood/Glucose test there on the spot.

 

[ladybird64]

Totally understand Johnny. I was carer for my daughter for 21 years, and for my 90 yr old mum in the months before she died. I know about the maze that is "care" from the LA, and wouldnt expect you to go into details here. Two things though. I'm assuming you are either a member of, or have heard of Carers Uk? It might be an idea to ring their helpline or use the forum for advice. Given the nature of dads condition, he might even be eligible for NHS continuing care funding. I do hope you get the support you need to look after your own health.

 

[johnnyxs]

well most of the results of the blood samples I gave this morning were back by 7pm this evening. The Doctor rang me and said my 12 hour fasting plasma glucose level this morning was 26.8 mmol/L

He advised me that I have Diabetes but didn't say which.

He is calling on me at home tomorrow afternoon when I should receive the rest of my results .

 

[ladybird64]

Johnny, can I ask something? You have mentioned eliminating most carbs from your diet, can you give us some examples of what you have cut out, and what kind of meals you have? As has already been pointed out, that thirst is synonymous with diabetes for many people, and I think you should really be concerned with it as it means that you need to get your glucose levels down. I think you are probably type 2 but regardless of type, if you can take a close look at diet for the time being and make any changes necessary, levels should start to lower and you should feel better.

 

[TorqPenderloin]

Everything you mentioned so far is indicative of type 1. Although possible, it would be incredibly unusual to lose that much weight, have glucose levels that high, and be type 2 in such a short amount of time.

I'll put it this way, you sound almost exactly like how I was back when I was diagnosed last year.