Any recommendations Libre vs Dexcom G5?

[katmcd]

Hi,

I'm thinking I'll need to fund my own CGM. Recently diagnosed type 1, my control at the moment when I'm testing before meals is between 4 and 8. I got told off by my DSN for testing after meals. I test before and after I exercise and also before I drive. I'm on a basal-bolus regime.
If there's a way I can reduce the number of BG needles I'd be thankful (although I know I still need to do it before I drive and for calibrations for CGM).
I doubt I'd get help from my diabetes clinic (although in fairness I haven't asked).
If someone can either point me in the direction of a thread where these 2 have been compared or can advise on personal experience (especially if someone has used both systems) I'd be really grateful. Either way I know it will be an expensive but worthy investment.

Thanks so much,
Kat

 

[Winterwatch]

Hi Kat,

I was diagnosed with T1 a couple of months ago (seems longer) and have recently considered the same issue as you.

I tried out both the Libre and Dexcom G5 in the last couple of weeks (with an overlap week where I wore them both to see how the numbers compared).

Whilst I think there are positives on both sides, I can tell you that I have personally decided to stick with the G5 for now. I have not found it to be without fault (it sometimes loses signal for no apparent reason) but overall I have found it easier to check readings on my phone (rather than scanning with the Libre) and those readings (perhaps because of the need to calibrate) seem to correspond more closely with the readings from my preferred blood meter (the libre matching more closely with the blood readings from the Libre itself, which is essentially a Freestyle Optium meter).

There are some links below to materials that I looked at when researching this but feel free to ask me any particular questions you have about either of the two and I will try to answer (based on a couple of weeks of use of each!)

http://childrenwithtype1diabetes.org/dexcom-g5-vs-freestyle-libre-2016
http://blog.diabeteslab.org/2015/10/comparison-of-continuos-glucose-monitoring-systems-cgms/
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/dexcom-g5-vs-libre.102874/

 

[katmcd]

Hi @Winterwatch, thanks so much for your reply and the links. Really useful to have something focused.
The G5 rep said the sensors are only advised for 7 days use. But I take it they can be restarted and used up to 3 weeks (3x7days) as long as they are stuck on well.
Would this be correct in your experInce? I know costs are higher for the G5 but I think I'm swaying towards it more because of the alerts especially.

 

[Winterwatch]

Yes, the Libre lasts 14 days and then shuts down. The G5 lasts 7 days before you have to restart the sensor.

As to how long you can get out of the G5 sensors in total, I cannot say yet from experience but perhaps someone else can comment on this. I have just recently restarted mine and am aiming to get 2 weeks out of it in total (2x7 days). I have read that 2-3 weeks is pretty typical, though. I can say that I've not had any issue with it coming unstuck from my skin (I used skin tac and Opsite dressing to be sure though).

I've read that the G5 readings can be a bit off for the first few days after restarting the sensor but that you can probably alleviate this by doing a couple of extra calibrations during that time. I will let you know whether this turns out to be an issue.

The alerts are definitely useful on the G5. So far I have been able to stay in range most of the time but knowing that they are as a safety net for nighttime hypos is comforting.

Overall, I'd say that the Libre is a good product and if I hadn't tried Dexcom, I'd probably have been happy with it. So far though, I would say that the additional cost of the G5 is reflected in what you get, especially if you plan to use it with a smartphone -one less thing to carry is always a bonus.

 

[EllsKBells]

@katmcd it is worth noting that you can use a smartphone to scan the libre too, if it is an android. Personally, it was really cost that made the decision for me, but I very much like the simplicity of a libre. I'm not overly familiar with the Dexcom - it was just too expensive to consider, really - but the major advantage I see it having over the libre is that it has the hypo alarm, which I guess is useful if you aren't always aware of hypos. You can have multiple smartphones linked up to your libre sensor, which is great if I'm not feeling well/asleep and boyfriend is worried about me, he can just scan me. I also like that you can input when you have had insulin/food etc., and then when you look at it in the computer software it tells you all sorts of clever things.

I think @tim2000s is the ranking expert around here on diabetes technology.

 

[Winterwatch]

A positive for the Libre is that it gives you a reading every minute as opposed to every 5 minutes with Dexcom. You only get the benefit of this if you are checking it that frequently, though, since for the purposes of the graph, the Libre aggregates the data and plots 1 point per 15 minutes. The 1 minute readings can perhaps be useful though if you are want to know asap how a hypo treatment, for example, is taking effect.

 

[tim2000s]

On the note about G5 sensor longevity, it varies by user. I typically get around 16 days of decent quality data out of a sensor when used with a G5 transmitter. With the G4 transmitter, it was nearer 21-24. In terms of apps, the Dexcom G5 app allows you to enter events (eating, exercise, etc) so that you can do similar investigation into what has been going on. Or you can use some of the DIY stuff from NightScout.

While the Libre reads every minute, and the G5 every 5 mins, the value in that is very dependent on how frequently you check, so that's really a question for the end user. The other thing to consider is the "accuracy" of the system. The G5 has a sub-10% MARD, while the Libre is around 11.5%. The G5 is approved for bolusing while the Libre isn't (but that doesn't mean you can't...).

I guess it's horses for courses really. After using the Libre for a while, I switched over to Dexcom, then Medtronic to use with my 640G. Each of them is slightly different and has it's pros and cons.

 

[katmcd]

Thank you to you all. I've bitten the bullet and ordered a Dexcom G5 and a couple of sensors(also some Skin-tac and Rock tape). I'll use the app first off and see how I get on. If I like it and think it's worth it, I might get the receiver as a back up. I'm interested to see what's happening in between the times I take my BG readings, as currently my readings are quite good. I may be horrified or pleasantly surprised, who knows!

 

[Winterwatch]

Thank you to you all. I've bitten the bullet and ordered a Dexcom G5 and a couple of sensors(also some Skin-tac and Rock tape). I'll use the app first off and see how I get on. If I like it and think it's worth it, I might get the receiver as a back up. I'm interested to see what's happening in between the times I take my BG readings, as currently my readings are quite good. I may be horrified or pleasantly surprised, who knows!

Good luck with it; I hope it works out. I have just finished my second week with my G5 and it is reading just as well as before. Although starting to fall off a bit now.

 

[Djdiabetic]

Hey can someone tell me where I can buy dexcom sensors? Looking to try this out and see how long I can get out of a sensor! Currently on the libre but doesn't give hypo warnings or an iPhone app which interests me greatly!

Cheers

 

[donnellysdogs]

If you got an iphone I can thoroughly recommend the new Guardian Connect...

Lucky enough to get it on Weds and so far very, very accurate.

Probs with non alarms initially but my levels drop slowly so think it was jyst on wrong setting.

Downside.. although a size 10 and in last 3 months have gained over 11/2 stone my stomach is not really going to be suitable. Still too muscly. Not licensed officially for arms or legs.

It is really accurate.

I found the libre really accurate though for first 6 months but since xmas it was consistently reading low. I think, as I pnly have one usable arm to use that my arm was over used..

Guardian connect to phone is brilliant. Okish probable price..... tbc..... I lnow the NHS price but dont know what price will be to public paying...

 

[Skye's_mummy]

If you got an iphone I can thoroughly recommend the new Guardian Connect...

Lucky enough to get it on Weds and so far very, very accurate.

Probs with non alarms initially but my levels drop slowly so think it was jyst on wrong setting.

Downside.. although a size 10 and in last 3 months have gained over 11/2 stone my stomach is not really going to be suitable. Still too muscly. Not licensed officially for arms or legs.

It is really accurate.

I found the libre really accurate though for first 6 months but since xmas it was consistently reading low. I think, as I pnly have one usable arm to use that my arm was over used..

Guardian connect to phone is brilliant. Okish probable price..... tbc..... I lnow the NHS price but dont know what price will be to public paying...

Hey, is the guardian connect a Medtronic CGM?! We're having a trial with a dexcom g4 at the minute but I'm not really sold on it so far. X

 

[donnellysdogs]

The guardian connect is a standalone medtronic cgm.
Available to patients to self fund prob from Apr.

Had mine on almost 4 days now and it is superb for accuracy.

Its alarms though arent perfect, going to be talking to medtronic again about them tomorrow.

I had navigator years ago and then libre.. This Connect Is brilliant.

 

[tim2000s]

Connect is the same tech as the 640G uses for Smartguard. I found it very good. For me it wasn't quite as accurate as the G5 but it's pretty good. The downside is sensor life, where I couldn't get the sensors to last more than about 10 days, which is an issue when you are self funding.

None of the CGM systems are "licens d" for arms. Only the Libre has that. Many of us use arms in spite of that, as we find the sensors last longest there.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Connect is the same tech as the 640G uses for Smartguard. I found it very good. For me it wasn't quite as accurate as the G5 but it's pretty good. The downside is sensor life, where I couldn't get the sensors to last more than about 10 days, which is an issue when you are self funding.

None of the CGM systems are "licens d" for arms. Only the Libre has that. Many of us use arms in spite of that, as we find the sensors last longest there.

It is important to me not to be using my arms... the Connect is proving very, very accurate. Now had 4 full days use and not one complaint on accuracy. Only thing I am finding is that (for example) I woke this morning to find 10 messages on phone that was going low (didnt) but not one alarm had audibly made a noise.
Havent yet figured this out as it dors it during the day too when phone is directly in front of me and it goes into "sleep" mode on the phone and the alarms dont sound. When I look at phone I can have some warning messages. As I drop so slowly and the settings are on the more sensitive settings I'm not particularly worried as I have the low setting at 4.5. However, it should be audibly warning, not just sending messages when I decide to look at phone.

I am a bit sensitive to the glue and plasters, sometimes irritating as heck, but other times its fine.

Going to speak to medtronic why the alarms still arent audible. We've been through settings etc and sometimes the audible signals sound but others not...

Great info from it though. I can now extend my sleep till 4.30am rather than 4am for my first bolus correction to counteract the Dawn phenomenon.

 

[katmcd]

It is important to me not to be using my arms... the Connect is proving very, very accurate. Now had 4 full days use and not one complaint on accuracy. Only thing I am finding is that (for example) I woke this morning to find 10 messages on phone that was going low (didnt) but not one alarm had audibly made a noise.
Havent yet figured this out as it dors it during the day too when phone is directly in front of me and it goes into "sleep" mode on the phone and the alarms dont sound. When I look at phone I can have some warning messages. As I drop so slowly and the settings are on the more sensitive settings I'm not particularly worried as I have the low setting at 4.5. However, it should be audibly warning, not just sending messages when I decide to look at phone.

I am a bit sensitive to the glue and plasters, sometimes irritating as heck, but other times its fine.

Going to speak to medtronic why the alarms still arent audible. We've been through settings etc and sometimes the audible signals sound but others not...

Great info from it though. I can now extend my sleep till 4.30am rather than 4am for my first bolus correction to counteract the Dawn phenomenon.

Not heard of the Connect (v v new to this). Is connect the app and is the sensor called something else? And is android supported or is it just iPhone?

I'm up for testing a few different systems in the early days to figure out which suits the best, although I ruled out libre as I wanted alerts so I really narrowed my pool to choose from!

 

[Scott-C]

I ruled out libre as I wanted alerts

There's another thread today where @Djdiabetic spotted a new thing called Blucon from a company called Ambrosia Systems:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/blucon-for-libre.118097/

Curiously, their site itself doesn't say anything about alarms, but their mobile twitter feed has a post about 3 hours ago, saying, "App will provide low/high alerts." If that's true, that would certainly interest me. 110 dollars one-off cost, meant to be available from end of April, way cheaper than Dexcom/Medtronic. Says it's "reusable", and just change the battery.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ambrosia_sys?lang=en

https://www.ambrosiasys.com/faq

 

[donnellysdogs]

Not heard of the Connect (v v new to this). Is connect the app and is the sensor called something else? And is android supported or is it just iPhone?

I'm up for testing a few different systems in the early days to figure out which suits the best, although I ruled out libre as I wanted alerts so I really narrowed my pool to choose from!

Its a standalone sensor, no pump required. It is an updated enlite sensor that only currently works to an iphone.

Medtronic at the moment only suplying to patients with funding. It will be released for general usage probably April.

It is brilliant for accuracy. Today it was absolutely spot on to my bloods. However my bloods do not change dramatically under normal injections, I do not get large swings.

Costs are still to be confirmed for patients to buy but the Transmitter which lasts for one year and 4 months supply of sensors is being sold to NHS for £999. The transmitter about £475.

A lot of money for the transmitter compared to the reader of £58 for Libre...

 

[tim2000s]

There's another thread today where @Djdiabetic spotted a new thing called Blucon from a company called Ambrosia Systems:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/blucon-for-libre.118097/

Curiously, their site itself doesn't say anything about alarms, but their mobile twitter feed has a post about 3 hours ago, saying, "App will provide low/high alerts." If that's true, that would certainly interest me. 110 dollars one-off cost, meant to be available from end of April, way cheaper than Dexcom/Medtronic. Says it's "reusable", and just change the battery.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ambrosia_sys?lang=en

https://www.ambrosiasys.com/faq

It all depends really. $110 for the transmitter, but you're guaranteed to spend £100 a month on sensors, whereas many people spend £50-£75 on the Dexcom sensors a month, and £200 on the G4 transmitter, All in all I suspect that it works out about the same.

 

[Djdiabetic]

It all depends really. $110 for the transmitter, but you're guaranteed to spend £100 a month on sensors, whereas many people spend £50-£75 on the Dexcom sensors a month, and £200 on the G4 transmitter, All in all I suspect that it works out about the same.

So @tim2000s what is the lifetime of the dexcom and where can I buy it? Also do you need the transmitter if you have an iPhone?