Bananas tomatoes pineapple Bergen bread etc

[Darrell]

As a very recently diagnosed type 2, which of the following are regarded as good or bad, there is so much conflicting opinion.

Bananas
Pineapple
Tomato
Peas
Carrots
Grapes

Can I also please ask about Bergen bread, I spotted it in the supermarket today and I noticed it had been mentioned a few times on here. Is there any reason for choosing this brand because I saw other bread products with similar qualities. Is there something to be wary of whilst looking at the nutritional info of bread?

Thanks

 

[Daibell]

Hi. I can comment on a few of the items:

Bananas bad particularly if over-ripe
Pineapple & Grapes. Have fruit sugar so careful with the quantity. Perhaps others can comment further on these
Tomatos, peas, carrots good especially if the carrots are raw (why cook them?)

Bergen bread (soya & linseed) is good owing to the low overall carb % in the ingredients and it is low GI. In theory it has the lowest BS impact of almost any available bread.

Overall you need to be looking at the overall carb content and whether it is low or high GI. Low GI foods (good) tend to be complex and less refined.

 

[Anonymous]

Burgen bread (the soya and linseed one) has lower carb than other sliced bread - about 11g per slice, hence the recommendation. Compared to many loaves it's half the carbohydrate.

In your list of fruit/veg, here are the readings from my Collin's Gem Carb Counter book;

Bananas - 1 mediium - 20.1g carb
Pineapple - Fresh 60g - 5.7g carb
Tomato - 1 medium - 4.1g carb
Peas - boiled 90g - 5g carb
Carrots - boiled 80g - 2g crb
Grapes - 75g - 11.1g carb

most find that Banana's are off limits - especially if they are very ripe because they act faster (high GI). The best fruit ends in 'berry and the best veg grows above ground.

Hope that helps
S

 

[Defren]

Bananas are my favourite fruit, but I no longer eat them. I used to have one every single evening, and I think they are my biggest miss. I eat quite a few cherry tomato's and if we have gammon I will have a few cubes of pineapple. Carrots I will eat raw in a salad, peas I am not keen on and I love grapes but wouldn't have them, too high in carbs. I do eat Burgen bread though only a maximum of 2 slices a day, and only if that day has been very low carb anyway.

There are a lot of foods I like I have given up. I want to remain as healthy as I can, for as long as I can, so realise sacrifices have to be made. The new diet for me, has been quite easy, but I know some people do struggle. Another example is porridge, I love it on cold dreary mornings, but now, wouldn't go near it. It's hard, but diabetes complications are all so horrible the idea of them happening to me, keeps me motivated.

 

[Darrell]

Bananas are my favourite fruit, but I no longer eat them. I used to have one every single evening, and I think they are my biggest miss. I eat quite a few cherry tomato's and if we have gammon I will have a few cubes of pineapple. Carrots I will eat raw in a salad, peas I am not keen on and I love grapes but wouldn't have them, too high in carbs. I do eat Burgen bread though only a maximum of 2 slices a day, and only if that day has been very low carb anyway.

There are a lot of foods I like I have given up. I want to remain as healthy as I can, for as long as I can, so realise sacrifices have to be made. The new diet for me, has been quite easy, but I know some people do struggle. Another example is porridge, I love it on cold dreary mornings, but now, wouldn't go near it. It's hard, but diabetes complications are all so horrible the idea of them happening to me, keeps me motivated.

The other posts were also helpful but this one stands out as being the sum of all my fears. may I ask what complications you are afraid of and what you think eating these items might do?
Do they make your BG race up (none of these raise my BG very much, if at all) , and if so how long before they come down again?

You seem quite a careful eater, what do you eat?

 

[Defren]

Bananas are my favourite fruit, but I no longer eat them. I used to have one every single evening, and I think they are my biggest miss. I eat quite a few cherry tomato's and if we have gammon I will have a few cubes of pineapple. Carrots I will eat raw in a salad, peas I am not keen on and I love grapes but wouldn't have them, too high in carbs. I do eat Burgen bread though only a maximum of 2 slices a day, and only if that day has been very low carb anyway.

There are a lot of foods I like I have given up. I want to remain as healthy as I can, for as long as I can, so realise sacrifices have to be made. The new diet for me, has been quite easy, but I know some people do struggle. Another example is porridge, I love it on cold dreary mornings, but now, wouldn't go near it. It's hard, but diabetes complications are all so horrible the idea of them happening to me, keeps me motivated.

The other posts were also helpful but this one stands out as being the sum of all my fears. may I ask what complications you are afraid of and what you think eating these items might do?
Do they make your BG race up (none of these raise my BG very much, if at all) , and if so how long before they come down again?

You seem quite a careful eater, what do you eat?

The complications are neuropathy, I have that in my hands already, but mild. Retinopathy, the idea of blindness scares me half to death. I love to read and am a PC nut, so loosing my sight is scarey. Liver and kidney failure, again the thought of this happening just make me stick to a rigid diet. Heart failure, no explanation needed for this. Diabetics are prone to so many different things. I read on here one poster saying they wanted to die with their feet on, scared the bejessus out of me. All these things keep me motivated.

Things I eat, I may not be the best person to help here, as I am struggling to eat anything. I asked here and it could be I need my Metformin as SR.

Breakfast: I was eating things like bacon, eggs, sausages and grilled tomato's or a two egg omelette with ham, mushrooms, cheese, tomato, anything you like really. Greek yogurt with berries seems to be another favourite here, I love Greek yogurt and berries, so this would be a nice option for me.

Lunch: Salad is good, I bought meal replacement shakes with 3g of carbs, tried one didn't like them, and from then on have not been able to eat lunch. I have a slice of burgen bread each evening before bed with peanut butter as it gives me good fasting readings. It could be a lunch option, although not a very filling one. On one of the forums there is a thread called Viv's modified Atkins diet, have a look at that for lunch idea's, infact any meal idea's it's really very good.

Dinner: I love veg, salad, meat and fish, so something like a mixed grill (I had that last night) or a chicken salad with a simple vinegar and oil dressing and a sprinkling of seeds is good. Fish and fresh veg, yummy. I only eat veg grown above ground as they are less carby. I never go near a potato although small new potato's are better than starchy old ones. I drink only Earl Grey tea with a little splash of milk. I tried Soya, but heard too many bad things about it, so am now on Flora pro activ.

Snacks I have just bought some sugar free individual jellies, or I will snack on nuts (I have walnuts).

I know I am lucky to have been able to go to an exceptionally low carb diet easily, many can't as they don't like the very low carb foods. I aim for less than 30g a day, that is very low carbing, but you can go higher and find you can tolerate more. The fear of complications keeps me on a rigid less than 30g a day, but I suspect it's my own fears, more than reality if you do keep a low carb diet.

 

[xyzzy]

Darrell the key to all of this is to control your blood sugars so that they remain in a safe range and therefore minimise the risks as much as possible. The risks can be thought of as twofold:

First those associated with running high blood sugars so neuropathy, retinopathy and the fact that high blood sugars will progressively kill the cells that produce insulin so the whole thing becomes a viscous circle as insulin is what the body uses to keep blood sugars normal.

Secondly there are the broad health risks that everyone including non diabetics get such as highly increased risks of heart attacks and strokes from being overweight and generally unhealthy.

Most forum members would say by adopting a good diet can not only sort the blood sugar risks out but can sort the secondary risks out as well as on a good diet you will naturally begin to lose weight.

The issue is therefore what is a good diet for diabetics. Again most members would say its one where a combination of a reduction in carbohydrates and taking drugs reduces your blood sugars to safe levels.

The balance between the amount you reduce your carbohydrates and the amount of drugs you take is a personal choice. Some forum members find if they reduce their carbohydrates right down to very small amounts they can recover the same blood sugar levels as a non diabetic and take no drugs at all. Others like me will take a safe drug like Metformin and not reduce quite so much and yet others will take more powerful drugs and be able to eat yet more carbohydrate.

Even if you get your blood levels back into a normal range you are not cured but just in control. If you went off and ate something sugary or high carb you levels would spike back up again.

Now the important thing to realise is that no matter what group each forum member decides to be in the vast majority will not dispute that you should drastically reduce your carbohydrate intake and all would say the vast majority of getting back to safe blood sugar levels is down to diet and only a bit is down to drugs. The exception is where a person elects to go on insulin. In that case then theoretically they can eat whatever they want. The reality is somewhat different as insulin has a tendency to make you gain weight so unless you follow a good healthy diet anyway you end up putting yourself at extremely high risks of heart attacks and strokes because of weight gain. If you are on insulin and in good overall health and maintain it that's no problem at all.

What most members also recommend is to test their own blood sugars as this will give them the feedback they need to see if they have to adjust their carbohydrate intake down or up or consider taking more drugs etc. The UK NICE guidelines state that a Type 2 diabetic should be offered a meter and test strips if they show both what blood sugar readings mean and show that they are reacting to the numbers. The reality is very different with a majority of gp practices nowadays ignoring the guidelines and telling patients that testing is not for Type 2's or not necessary or even that it will send you mad. The trouble is a gp can overrule the guidelines by simply saying "but I dont think its suitable for you" In these cases forum members either end up not testing or if they can afford to they will buy their own meter and strips.

To get to a reduced carbohydrate diet the minimum you should consider is to cut out or drastically reduce all things that contain plain sugar as sugar is just a refined and dangerously fast acting form of carbohydrate. Next consider at least halving the amount of starchy carbohydrate in your diet thats rice, pasta, bread, potatoes, cereals and anything else made of flour. Replace the gap this leaves with more meat, fish, cheese, eggs and especially vegetables. As others have mentioned vegetables that grow above ground are best although carrots are usually ok. On the starchy carbohydrates that are left try swapping to brown basmatti rice, wholemeal or Burgen bread and brown or the tri-colour pasta. Avoid mashed potatoes.

Safe blood levels are normally defined as under 7 before eating (called fasting level) and under 7.8 if you measure two hours after eating a meal. The 7.8 number is a magic number as its the number that those first risks of neuropathy, retinopathy and cell damage begin from and secondly is the maximum level that 100% of the average non diabetic population would expect to get 2 hours after eating.

Some posters have listed the carbohydrate content of foods in grams. As a guide try and aim for a total daily amount of carbohydrate at around 120 to 150g / day. At this level you will be starting where most members do and it is the level you would be recommended to eat in countries like Sweden and Germany who have more enlightened and up to date health services.

Good luck and keep asking questions

 

[Darrell]

Thank you VERY much for some very informative replies.

I do test on a regular basis and recently the only time it has got anywhere near 7.8 was the other night when I got up too 8.8 for a few hours after having a non creamy curry with rice and nan bread. The nan bread was my first foray into white flour since being diagnosed.

My eating has changed drastically, my (deliberate) sugar eating must be 3 or 4 % what it was, I try and eat healthy fats, white bread and pastries etc which were once my staples have disappeared. And so on.

BUT I still eat mash, brown bread (up to four slices a day), bananas, grapes, (fruit is a new experience to my body) and various other things that I read others on here avoiding like the plague. But my test strips hardly go above 7.

I was worried that eating these foods might be damaging me, even though blood sugars are somehow staying low, but it seems to be that as long as the BG count stays healthy the underlying symptoms of diabetes have more chance of being kept at bay.

I am also on metformin.

But there is no harm in knowing, and avoiding, foods if their 'tax' is not parallel to the enjoyment. For example I would not now have a banana, I enjoy a juicy apple nearly as much so i will take the apple.
But if I was to have a ham sandwich I would not consider swapping the bread for, say, some salad and making it into a ham salad. Bread does have a tax to enjoyment ratio that is worth it. To me.

 

[xyzzy]

The nan bread...

A killer nan bread putting aside its high carb content have you ever looked up how many calories is in one? The rest of the Indian is fine, love em.

The bottom line to me is eat what you want just keep below the danger level or even eat what you want and exceed the danger level but do it from an informed and truthful position so that you know the risks.

 

[carty]

Hi Darrell
The secret is no matter who says what ,your body and your diabetes is not the same as anyone elses and although there is some good advice on here you must use your meter to find out what works for YOU .Also it is important to feel as well as possible EG if you get your BGs very low but feel rubbish all the time then you need a re-think you may have to let the BGs run a little higher for a while Diabetes is not an exact science it cannot be formulated so that all eat the same things etc. My advice is to do research read what others are doing and then listen to your body and use your meter and make sure you have regular Hba1c checks with your HCPs
Bon appetite
CAROL

 

[Darrell]

The nan bread...

A killer nan bread putting aside its high carb content have you ever looked up how many calories is in one? The rest of the Indian is fine, love em.

The bottom line to me is eat what you want just keep below the danger level or even eat what you want and exceed the danger level but do it from an informed and truthful position so that you know the risks.

I never realised, thanks. I only had half of one though.

 

[Darrell]

Hi Darrell
The secret is no matter who says what ,your body and your diabetes is not the same as anyone elses and although there is some good advice on here you must use your meter to find out what works for YOU .Also it is important to feel as well as possible EG if you get your BGs very low but feel rubbish all the time then you need a re-think you may have to let the BGs run a little higher for a while Diabetes is not an exact science it cannot be formulated so that all eat the same things etc. My advice is to do research read what others are doing and then listen to your body and use your meter and make sure you have regular Hba1c checks with your HCPs
Bon appetite
CAROL

Hi Carol. My BG rarely goes below 6 and very rarely goes above 7.
I even ate a big pack of cashews once and it hardly budged, then I find out they are meant to spike most diabetics. I shall keep experimenting, but I am betting a bit sore on my fingertips from the testing.

What is Hba1c check please, I have seen this many times and always assumed it was another name for my little blood tester.


I am very glad I have my tester, I would be very worried if I could not monitor what was going on inside me,

 

[carty]

Darrell
I think you are doing really well so give yourself a pat on the back :clap: You can probably just test 2 hours after your main meal or after eating something you are not sure about to save your fingers (and test strips).Hba1c is a blood test done by your GP or nurse which gives a glucose average over the last 3 months or so Dont ask me how it works I am sure someone will explain .Did you not have one when you were first diagnosed ?
CAROL

 

[Darrell]

Darrell
I think you are doing really well so give yourself a pat on the back :clap: You can probably just test 2 hours after your main meal or after eating something you are not sure about to save your fingers (and test strips).Hba1c is a blood test done by your GP or nurse which gives a glucose average over the last 3 months or so Dont ask me how it works I am sure someone will explain .Did you not have one when you were first diagnosed ?
CAROL

I must have done, I had many tests. They thought I was type 1 at first. My BG's were over 30 which is hardly surprising considering I was feeding my raging thirst with strong full fat Vimto.

I think I am due another test in May.

My blood has dipped below 6 (5.6) two hours after eating three boiled eggs (I love eggs, fortunately) and two slices of Village Bakery Organic Rye bread with seeds. http://www.village-bakery.com/index.php ... &Itemid=45

That is why I asked about the Bergen bread, this Rye bread seems to have better figures.

Carbs 35,6 (sugars 0.6)
Fibre 9.4
Calories 190 all per 100g. Are the rye bread figures

Carbs 29.8 (sugars 5.4)
Fibre 6.8
Calories 287 Are for the Soya and linseed bread,

Anyone decipher that?

 

[Defren]

Hi Darrell
The secret is no matter who says what ,your body and your diabetes is not the same as anyone elses and although there is some good advice on here you must use your meter to find out what works for YOU .Also it is important to feel as well as possible EG if you get your BGs very low but feel rubbish all the time then you need a re-think you may have to let the BGs run a little higher for a while Diabetes is not an exact science it cannot be formulated so that all eat the same things etc. My advice is to do research read what others are doing and then listen to your body and use your meter and make sure you have regular Hba1c checks with your HCPs
Bon appetite
CAROL

This is so true. One food item that one T2 can eat and have no rise in BG another would spike horribly. I took the main advice from here - cut carbs. Then I went completely overboard and have no more than 30g a day. Then you have posters like Sid Bonkers, who can eat much, much more than that and keep a good BG. We are all very individual, and our bodies are too. Eat and test is the only real way to know what your body will tolerate. Good luck.

 

[catherinecherub]

Hi Darrell,

You asked for an explanation of the HBA1c test. This link below will tell you.
http://medweb.bham.ac.uk/easdec/prevent ... _hba1c.htm

As carty explained so well, you cannot follow what someone else is eating and think that your blood sugars will follow the same path as them. It is an individual thing and you have to rely on your meter to see what is suitable for you. In the early stages it is wise to test, test, test. You may also find that if you add somethings to your meals as opposed to snacking on them that this will mean that you can eat that fruit that you thought was out of bounds. Do not follow others blindly thinking they have found the secret. They may have found the secret for them but it does not mean that it will be right for you.
Hope you are not more confused than you were. :lol: :lol:

 

[Darrell]

Hi Darrell,

You asked for an explanation of the HBA1c test. This link below will tell you.
http://medweb.bham.ac.uk/easdec/prevent ... _hba1c.htm

As carty explained so well, you cannot follow what someone else is eating and think that your blood sugars will follow the same path as them. It is an individual thing and you have to rely on your meter to see what is suitable for you. In the early stages it is wise to test, test, test. You may also find that if you add somethings to your meals as opposed to snacking on them that this will mean that you can eat that fruit that you thought was out of bounds. Do not follow others blindly thinking they have found the secret. They may have found the secret for them but it does not mean that it will be right for you.
Hope you are not more confused than you were. :lol: :lol:

Thanks for the link, all understood now :thumbup:

 

[cavair]

Defren mentions porridge....
"Another example is porridge, I love it on cold dreary mornings, but now, wouldn't go near it. It's hard, but diabetes complications are all so horrible the idea of them happening to me, keeps me motivated."

Why avoid oats? Oats is one of the best cereals for you as oats release sugars slower than other cereals.
Its what you have on it or with it!
If it needs sweetening use a bit of diabetic jam or sweetener, tho not everybody can stand the taste of sweetener! And of course sweetener is always good for you! I sometimes have a packet of Quaker Oats so Simple mixed with plain oats, but each 36g packet is 8% sugars. So, as is often said, its working out what is best for you. I know I still eat too much bread, especially in evening, and need to work on it. Oats in the morning sustain me longer till lunchtime without snacking.

Its progressive disease and tho my feet are fine and i still get exercise, walking and swimming, and cut out desserts, cake, sweets and biscuits etc but its taken its toll with ED, so complications "sneak up" on you, so you have to watch out. Heard too many stories from other people about those still drinking and thinking they can eat what they fancy even tho on drugs etc, then paying the price.

Im on 3x metformin and insulin, diagnosed since 1998. But im sure i had it for many years before as i used to get so tired at work after lunch when still on normal diet, and chocolate and sugared drinks etc.

Interested to hear what other people say about oats!

 

[Defren]

Defren mentions porridge....
"Another example is porridge, I love it on cold dreary mornings, but now, wouldn't go near it. It's hard, but diabetes complications are all so horrible the idea of them happening to me, keeps me motivated."

Why avoid oats? Oats is one of the best cereals for you as oats release sugars slower than other cereals.
Its what you have on it or with it!
If it needs sweetening use a bit of diabetic jam or sweetener, tho not everybody can stand the taste of sweetener! And of course sweetener is always good for you! I sometimes have a packet of Quaker Oats so Simple mixed with plain oats, but each 36g packet is 8% sugars. So, as is often said, its working out what is best for you. I know I still eat too much bread, especially in evening, and need to work on it. Oats in the morning sustain me longer till lunchtime without snacking.

Its progressive disease and tho my feet are fine and i still get exercise, walking and swimming, and cut out desserts, cake, sweets and biscuits etc but its taken its toll with ED, so complications "sneak up" on you, so you have to watch out. Heard too many stories from other people about those still drinking and thinking they can eat what they fancy even tho on drugs etc, then paying the price.

Im on 3x metformin and insulin, diagnosed since 1998. But im sure i had it for many years before as i used to get so tired at work after lunch when still on normal diet, and chocolate and sugared drinks etc.

Interested to hear what other people say about oats!

Hello Cavair, I avoid porridge due to the high carb content, for example Quaker Oats - Oat So Simple Original, 1 Sachet is 16g of carbs, far, far to high for me on a VLC diet of less than 30g of carbs a day. Yesterday my carbs were 20g, so using 16g for breakfast leaves virtually non for the rest of the day.

 

[phoenix]

Why avoid oats? Oats is one of the best cereals for you as oats release sugars slower than other cereals.
Its what you have on it or with it

People have variable experiences with oats. I don't avoid them, (and I am not T2) but personally would avoid 'instant oats'.They tend to have a very much higher glycaemic index than jumbo oats or steel cut oats,the sugars are actually released quite fast. (it's to do with the processing which makes the flakes very small , soft, quick to cook and easy to digest) But if it works for you as part of your diet , that's great.