Bitter Melon/Momordica charantia/Kugua/Goya in dishes

[cinnamon]

I've started to get myself acquired to the taste of Bitter Melon, said to be the panacea to diabetics (??? what do you think) Very bitter, but I'm hopping to get to used to it soon, as other folks' loving Guinness ! After a week of research online, here they are:

chinesefood.about.com/od/vegetablesrecipes/ss/bitter-melon.htm
How to prepare the vegetable.

chinesefood.about.com/od/vegetablesrecipes/r/bittermelonpork.htm
Recipe with fermented blackbean & shredded pork & wine.

japanesefood.about.com/od/pork/r/porkgoyachanpu.htm
Okinawan recipe (and the Okinawan are well known for their long life, Longevity is the highest in the world (I've Bing-ed...)

I have experimented above by eliminating sugar, eggs (eggs are not good for diabetics?)

My question is: how much can I eat the Bitter Melon per day? What is the safe portion (vegetable in weight/grams) per meal/day?

I've read at wiki: it's not for pregnant women. However, there's no guidance on safe portion.
thanks

 

[PickledPepper]

I've started experimenting with this stuff too. An Indian family friend suggested it. I tried it before once, years ago at a dinner, and it is an acquired taste. Thankfully I've always been adventurous and experimental with my food and I am beginning to 'acquire' the taste.

What I've found is that it can knock your BS levels down about half a point. Even more interesting is when you eat it with other stuff that might push your levels up, it seems to balance it.

Now I simply slice one up and fry it in olive oil. Maybe throw in an onion halfway through. I put it in a slice of Burgen linseed soya bread sometimes to help it down.

The other day, I went into a Sri Lankan supermarket and found a new variety which was pale green as opposed to the dark green ones I have been getting, plus it is much larger. I have it in my fridge.

Apparently it contains a natural insulin type substance. Seems to have worked as well as metformin so far. But it really is an acquired taste......But if eating it keeps me off the meds for a while, I'll acquire the **** taste already! lol

 

[cinnamon]

Many thanks PickledPepper, readers,

I'm now used to the bitter taste, from both two types, the pale green and the jewelled green, the latter approx. 1/5th of the pale in size.

Your 'when you eat it with other stuff that might push your levels up, it seems to balance it. ' has tempted me to thrown in all sorts of other stuff: a no no surely... sigh... sigh...

I've found that my favourite is sauted bitter melon in olive oil with a little onion/shallot and a spoonful of wine. I may slice in a tiny segment of fresh chilli sometimes.

My question :
how big the portion would it have to be for this veg to become beneficial ?
can I eat this on a daily basis (fortunately there is a shop selling this veg in town) ? or every other day?
will refrigeration of the dish remove its potency/ benefit ?

ps I'm also freakishly squeamish and have given up pricking my fingers to read BS levels...
My wish is that they'll devise a gadget that preclude piercing for blood, soonest.

 

[PickledPepper]

Hi cinnamon

I'm now used to the bitter taste, from both two types, the pale green and the jewelled green, the latter approx. 1/5th of the pale in size.

I found the pale one less bitter than the dark green one myself. I don't whether this effects the potency as the bitter tasting substance may be the one that effects BS levels?

Your 'when you eat it with other stuff that might push your levels up, it seems to balance it. ' has tempted me to thrown in all sorts of other stuff: a no no surely... sigh... sigh...

You MUST, I say again MUST test to see if it is working for you. This conditions is very strange and sometimes things work wonderfully and then the same thing on another day doesn't! Plus remember what ever substance is in the veg that is good for us will vary from gourd to gourd. So there is no way to measure things meticulously like with pharmaceuticals.

I've found that my favourite is sauted bitter melon in olive oil with a little onion/shallot and a spoonful of wine. I may slice in a tiny segment of fresh chilli sometimes.

how big the portion would it have to be for this veg to become beneficial ?

I eat them by the gourd. A medium sized gourd. Or two small gourds, or half of one of those whooping ones!

can I eat this on a daily basis (fortunately there is a shop selling this veg in town) ? or every other day?

You MUST, I stress MUST test to see if it is helping you and by how much. Start by eating them evry third day and see how it helps. Remember they are no miracle cure and only work as part of a healthy diet, thinking they are some magic bullet that allows you to stuff your face is foolish (not saying you do this!).

will refrigeration of the dish remove its potency/ benefit ?

What I found is that they do not keep well for long. Thats is because they start to ripen and soften. Ideally you want firm ones. So I guess The best policy is to buy them when needed and make them on the same day.

ps I'm also freakishly squeamish and have given up pricking my fingers to read BS levels...
My wish is that they'll devise a gadget that preclude piercing for blood, soonest.

Sorry pal. No way around it. Face your fears and get over it. You have to start testing in order to manage your condition. No avoiding it. For all you know, you could still be going sky high with the karela. Test find out!

 

[cinnamon]

Hi PickledPepper

Thanks. The pale one I bought the other day was as bitter as the smaller size (but maybe because by the time I tasted the smaller one I've become more used to its bitter taste? The smaller melons are easier to get, I've found)

The nurse/GP gives me the 3 (maybe less frequent actually ?) monthly blood tests, but the latest was done before I started to be acquainted with the bitter melon. I'll test myself this coming week.

Every third day, a couple of small gourds per portion. Thanks.

 

[PickledPepper]

Cinnamon

You need to test intensively for a period of time to see exactly how difference food effects you. You have to essentially experiment and find out what is working for you and what not by checking 1 hour, 2 hours and 3 hours after a meal.

Get yourself a blood tester and a bunch of strips (if you're lucky your doc may prescribe them). If not buy them yourself if you can afford it!


Do some searches on testing on the forum and learn about its benefits.

Remember bitter gourd has a relatively small effect on lower BS so don't get over excited with them. Unless you test you will not have a clue about whether you are making good progress or not. Your nurses tests are of limited value as you want to specifically see what foods and quantities agree with you, and what doesn't. You have to test at least 1 and 2 hours after a meal to establish if you are having OOT spikes.

 

[cinnamon]

Hi PickledPepper,

What is an OTT?

I did all those routine tests last autumn, but I'm squeamish. I'll do them again. I have the meter, strips (I guess that's why I am here now, to get some supports for me to be brave...)

Sometimes I also feel weak/wobbly. I'm managing T2 by diet and (trying...) some half hour exercises.
I guess I'd better read the exercise threads. I'm sure there are some in this forum.

And I read the other day that aloe vera is good for diabetics. Have you/anyone tried this?

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0zo7j45LZI&feature=related>
ALOE VERA barbadensis miller smoothies, use avocado, turmeric?

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DTtQaLIJc8&feature=related>
how to fillet aloe + recipe for juice.

Thanks.

 

[PickledPepper]

OTT = Over the top.

If you don't test all of your efforts could be a waste of time, so psyche yourself and do it! Don't be squeamish.

I guarantee after a few times, it will be nothing to you.

Feel the fear and do it anyway! lol

I haven't heard of the efficacy of aloe vera btw. Be careful cinnamon, these herbs and veg stuff can help you, but they aren't miracle cures that cause major dramatic change. Rather they should be part and parcel of holistic changes you make in your lifestyle. They work very subtly and slightly. Also be careful of every miracle cure/treatment that comes out. Get testing, get used to it, understand it and use the information to your advantage. Buy a small notebook and draw three columns in it. In the first column record the date and time of your meal or test. Then in the second record, exactly what you ate or whether it was a fasting reading. In the 3rd column record your bs level as given by your meter. Make a note of whether it is a 1 or 2 hour etc. test.

Personally I think I'm abusing the whiskey a bit much. So I trade of with having low bs level with a shafted liver...lol

 

[cinnamon]

I was down with cold/flu recently. I comforted myself with reading R Bernstein's Diabetes Solution (!).

I am now eliminating carbohydrate in my diet, no fruits but avocados, no other vegetable but cauliflower, cabbage, courgette, spinach, a pinch of sliced onion, aubergine, bok cay, bean sprout, bamboo shoot and those other few listed on the page 'what is there left to eat'... (I'm T2) (I can't stand bitter melon at the moment, will eat again in 2 weeks time; why 2 weeks? i don't know)
However, when I read the recipes given in this book (and other snippets of account), there seems to be contradictory message in some ingredients given ? Bread is one of those I think.

Will try to go through the pages again when I have the time.

Are there any of you following Bernstein's diet?
Could you please let me know of your experiences using this guide?
How do we effectively measure the weight of the carb (as listed by Fergus) ? thanks.

PickledPepper: thanks (and if you are not abusing whiskey, and they'll convert the non-glucked into biofuel, you would have contributed to the reduction of our global warming! but I'm sure it's fine if you sip for your health.. Bernstein's drips ?)

 

[PickledPepper]

Folks, I feel compelled to post.

I've been experimenting with 'karela' since a family friend put me onto them. After the initial shock at the taste, and getting used to that, I got some really interesting results from self administered tests. So in the context of sharing information:

On two occasions I have got the following results:

DAY 1:
Fasting: 6.4
1 hour after eating half a fried karela: 4.6

DAY 2:
Fasting 6.5
1 hour after eating large portion of fried karela: 4.7

So whatever is in the karela seems to have a relatively dramatic and immediate effect in lower BS levels? When I've had a portion with a somewhat carby meal (not over doing it mind you), with a karela starter, the bs levels is lower than without it. I'm not sure how it works but I have read that it contains some chemical very similar to insulin? Or is it stimulating the pancreas itself to create more insulin. I don't know?


I also came across this paper which claims that the vegetable actually helps regenerate suboptimal islet beta cells in the pancreas and includes photographic evidence. Make of it what you will? I know researchers can be pressured into falsifying results for budgets etc.

http://www.jeb.co.in/journal_issues/200 ... per_17.pdf

 

[cinnamon]

Glad to hear from you PickledPepper, and the results of the experiment.

I think that Frozen dishes of bitter melon (microwaved to piping hot) won't work. I'm still experimenting (i don't mind the bitter taste by now)

Because my timing is still erratic (quite busy) and I keep forgetting the time to test (yes, i've done the piercing sporadically for the BS, but i'm due to see the nurse this week) I can't yet reliably share the results.

How did you cook the veg? I said i could tolerate the bitter taste, but I've disguised the dishes with very thin diluted spices, either using chinese, japanese, indonesian or thai recipes (also omitting the sugary ingredients)

It is not too easy to buy the veg, therefore experimenting with freezing them in portions. Do you think the benefit is removed by this process?

Also, I can't understand when I tested BS 3 hours after meal it seems the reading is higher than when I tested BS 2 hours after meal.
I would think the sugar (from the carbo etc) would have been diluted more in the gut, and the reading should be lower?

I haven't been told to read 1 hour after meal. I will try to test and read 1 hour after meal. Hope it will read much lower!

To return to the veg itself; i think it's fine to eat this as part of our varied diet occasionally, but it's not very convenient to buy the veg in a regular basis; it's not economical, and the local supermarkets won't stock them?

 

[PickledPepper]

Hiya cinnamon

I think that Frozen dishes of bitter melon (microwaved to piping hot) won't work. I'm still experimenting (i don't mind the bitter taste by now)

I've always loved to cook and treat the microwave with contempt and disdain. I'm pretty sure it zaps the good nutrients out of food! So I would advise against microwaving in general.

Because my timing is still erratic (quite busy) and I keep forgetting the time to test (yes, i've done the piercing sporadically for the BS, but i'm due to see the nurse this week) I can't yet reliably share the results.

Do yourself a big favour and buy yourself a Accu-chek Multiclix lancer (the thing that pierces) and a bunch of its lancets (they come as barrels with 6 'shots'). It is the most painless one I've used and you do not see a needle at all. The pins in the barrels are hidden, plus you don't need to change them every time either. Really convenient. Most of the time you can't even feel the prick. It looks like this vvv. I use my mobile phone alarm to remind me to test, I set it five minutes early (i.e. at 55 mins) to give me time to wash and dry my hands properly before testing.

How did you cook the veg? I said i could tolerate the bitter taste, but I've disguised the dishes with very thin diluted spices, either using chinese, japanese, indonesian or thai recipes (also omitting the sugary ingredients)

These days I simply cut them into thin long strips (after deseeding them) and fry them in olive oil until they darken or get slightly crispy. Cooking takes between 5 and 10 minutes. I just eat them like that as a starter. I also fry them and throw them in a curry style dish. My mums Indian friend makes them some other way where she stuffs them and fries them but that seems like way too much work for me. Frying them like that seems to attenuate their bitterness.

I have to add, I 'm getting good results with them but I am using them with a generally healthy diet anyway.

Important: I tested the pale green large variety and they seem to have an infinitely reduced effect than the darker Indian green ones. So I no longer get the pale green 'smooth' ones.

For best effect I noticed it is good to have them as an appetizer just before you eat your main meal. I think they prep your digestive system with their insulin like substance. Try eating them about 5/10 minutes before your meal.

It is not too easy to buy the veg, therefore experimenting with freezing them in portions. Do you think the benefit is removed by this process?

I'm lucky in that I live near a very Asian section of town and can get them easily. I'm quite a stickler for fresh food so I wouldn't freeze them. What I might do is cook them and then keep the food refrigerated for a few days. It can last about 3/4 days in the fridge.

Also, I can't understand when I tested BS 3 hours after meal it seems the reading is higher than when I tested BS 2 hours after meal. I would think the sugar (from the carbo etc) would have been diluted more in the gut, and the reading should be lower? I haven't been told to read 1 hour after meal. I will try to test and read 1 hour after meal. Hope it will read much lower!

My advice is to learn about the effects of the food by testing at one and two hours after eating. I use my mobile alarm to remind me to do this. I also anally keep a log book with my experiments.

Usually you have a spike at one hour and it lowers by two. Though sometimes slower burning carbs work more slow. If you can spare the dosh, test, test , test! Learn what works for you and what doesn't!

To return to the veg itself; i think it's fine to eat this as part of our varied diet occasionally, but it's not very convenient to buy the veg in a regular basis; it's not economical, and the local supermarkets won't stock them?

I'm having it at least 3 times a week now in one way or another. 3 of them cost about £1.50. Not bad in my eyes. They seem to knock my levels down in a big way (combined with a overall healthy diet). Also add pink grapefruit (half on an empty stomach in the morning at least half hour BEFORE breakfast). Cinnamon too. Also introduce Omega 3 rich seeds like sunflower, flaxseed, pumpkin etc.

Hope this helps.

 

[cinnamon]

Thank you PickledPepper, will read again tomorrow.
(I was lucky I was supplied with optium xceed (pretty basic, but it works just fine) and presently i have lots of supply of lancets and strips, so I'm fine. I've just bought a new small notebook to write down what I eat, drink, activities etc before and after. Did that religiously when I started. Well, now I restart the testing and you are right: it's essential to learn/test, as you've said:
'My advice is to learn about the effects of the food by testing at one and two hours after eating.' thanks.

I think the hot ginger drink today has spiked up the reading... I used 1/3 teaspoon sweetener for 2 cups worth, but there are other ingredients which should not be there... brewed with lemon grass, cinnamon, and lemon leaves (i think they are lemon leaves, the tree in the pot came from an unidentified citrus seed ! it grows, so i've kept it) the sudden cold weather shed the leaves by the sheaves, and i decided to throw some in the brew )

Will try to buy fresh bitter melon tomorrow, the dark green jade, not the frosty one.
I heard that grape fruit may neutralise the effect of some drugs? (for high blood pressure)
I read bernstein the other day, and I only eat avocado lately.
Maybe i need supplements. I eat sunflower and pumpkin seeds.
I take cod liver oil, but I heard that it may not be good to take this? (1 entry/article in the internet says so... how do you know if it's true/correct...)
Do you cook cinnamon or just sprinkle this on food?

How do you do the para in boxes to comment at? (I'm still trying to make my way around/getting used to this site)

 

[cinnamon]

And here's mine:



(Forum link removed - Forum policy)
Reviews
Moringa oleifera: A Review of the Medical Evidence for Its Nutritional, Therapeutic, and Prophylactic Properties. Part 1.

Jed W. Fahey, Sc.D.
PEER REVIEWED
The Moringa tree (Moringa oleifera) has been praised for its nutritional and medicinal properties, and many claims have been made regarding its benefits. This first in a series of brief reviews looks at the published scientific evidence on this tree.

PEER REVIEWED
Johns Hopkins School of Medicine, Department of Pharmacology and Molecular Sciences, Lewis B. and Dorothy Cullman Cancer Chemoprotection Center, 725 N. Wolfe Street, 406 WBSB, Baltimore, Maryland, USA 21205-2185
---
Hope this (supermarket) tree of life is for real this time, for alleviating diabetic symptoms/complications ? As I must conclude that the half bitters has not worked for me after all !

Should I start a new thread entitled The Tree for Diabetics/Moringa oleifera ?
(google: Moringa oleifera diabetes)
They can grow this tree in the tropical areas of the US and north of Brisbane in Australia. There is a tropical nursery in Anglesey which stocks tropical plants...

 

[sugarless sue]

Please note that the thread has been split so that the off topic posts are now in a new thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=17151

Hope this new thread will be helpful.

Sugarless Sue.
Forum Monitor.

 

[PickledPepper]

Thought I'd post this to conclude my personal findings with bittergourd.

I've found that the darker green variety does indeed have hypoglycemic properties. However I did note that there is variance in results with some changes being dramatic and some more subtle. I presume this may be down to naturally differing levels of the substance(s) that cause the blood sugar lowering effect in the vegetables I've used?

I've found the best way to use it is to eat some (simply fried in olive oil) 5/10 minutes before a meal. It certainly helps stabilise bs levels when you have it with a slightly carby meal in my experience but it is no magic bullet that will allow you to eat carbs by the wheelbarrow.

The distinctly bitter taste is very 'acquired' and although I personally find it can compliment a spicy meal, it can be difficult to stomach at other times.

It wouldn't surprise me if some pharmaceutical is developed from bittergourd sometime in the near future.

 

[Delightfuldan]

Momordica

I asked this question last june 2010, can I take momordica with my metformin 500mgs. Does anyone know anything out there. I have been told to try it, but I don't want to mix it and find I am doing more harm than good. HELP

 

[PickledPepper]

Re: Momordica

I experimented with the vegetable and posted my experiences about them here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16167

I did find that they lowered my bs levels somewhat and did use them whilst taking met, I used them like a food supplement not in any processed tablet form. But ask your doc before you try them and be careful you don't have hypos if you are already on the low side.

The taste of the veg takes some getting used to...