Blood Sugar readings: Confused

[Phub]

I am supposed to be a diagnosed, Type 2 sufferer and I am mystified.

I am told that a non-diabetic person will have the following readings:

Two hours post meal (with carbs) a reading below 7.8 mmol/1

After a fast of 8 hours a reading of 3.9 to 5.5 mmol/1

My normal evening meal is completed by about 7pm each evening, mostly protein and fat with some carbs. (Green Vegetables) I am usually well asleep by the time eight hours has elapsed, so I take a reading in the morning before eating. This can be anything up to 15 hours after the last meal.

My morning readings are generally in the 7.0 to 7.4 range.
My readings in the day after meals, are always normal for NON diabetics.

Am I right in assuming that after eight hours of fasting the body begins to produce its own sugar? This might account for the higher readings after a fast of 8 to 15 hours.
I have not taken any metaformin so far, and will be telling my doc that I don't wish to, and prefer management with diet. On the LCHF diet, I have lost 28 lbs in weight since I was diagnosed about 6 weeks ago, and my blood pressure readings are also slowly normalising.


Thanks in anticipation.

 

[pavlosn]

What you are experiencing is called dawn phenomenon.

The body has a back up supply of glucose in the form of glycogen stored in the liver. Following a period of fasting, such as overnight, our blood glucose drops. This is sensed by the liver which breaks down glycogen and releases glucose into our bloodstream, a process called glucogenesis. The liver does so both to protect us against going hypo and to provide us with extra fuel in the form of glucose to meet the anticipated increased daytime energy needs.

One of the actions of metformin is to limit glucogenesis at the liver, but if you prefer not to go on it then fasting levels in the low sevens is probably not a reason to take it, if the rest of your day's counts are normal

 

[Bluetit1802]

Hi Phub,

@pavlosn is right. The best way to see if you are having a liver dump is to test at bedtime and then see what sort of rise you are getting overnight. If you wake up during the night, for a bathroom visit for example, test then. You don't need to do this often, but it will give you some idea of what is happening overnight.

Morning levels are always the last to come down, and can be affected by things out of our control such as a restless night. I doubt the length of an overnight fast has much to do with it if you have a good night's sleep. My own fasts are 13 or 14 hours, but my liver dumps are minimal - half a mmol/l perhaps. It can also depend on when you do the test - it is best to do it immediately on rising rather than pottering about first.

Well done on your control. You are doing brilliantly.

 

[Phub]

Thank you folks.
Getting a good night's rest is a bit difficult. I am being disturbed as my wife is having to get out of bed at least twice per night. I could sleep in a separate bed, I know, but that's not the way we do things in the Phub household!

Thanks again, and I'll keep an eye on evening readings.

Much obliged.
John

 

[sanguine]

Hi Phub, looks like you're doing all the right things. Keep it up and your fasting levels should come down and liver dumping decrease as your system adjusts.

 

[Phub]

Thanks Sanguine.

I am just in the middle of some heavy, hand-planing, in my woodwork shop. Reckon that will tire me out for tonight! Maybe I won't even know when No. One gets out of bed! Lol!

You know, it struck me recently that the 'pedlars' of conventional wisdom' could be criminally liable for all the Type 2s they have encouraged by championing the unholy grain! I just switched off the repeat of the GBBO!

Phub

 

[jack412]

I'd take the metformin slow release so the insulin resistance comes down and I was getting normal fasting readings too. it is also protective to the heart

 

[sanguine]

I am just in the middle of some heavy, hand-planing, in my woodwork shop. Reckon that will tire me out for tonight! Maybe I won't even know when No. One gets out of bed! Lol!

Ooo, lucky you - and good exercise! It's so therapeutic doing woodwork. Now where's my T5?

You know, it struck me recently that the 'pedlars' of conventional wisdom' could be criminally liable for all the Type 2s they have encouraged by championing the unholy grain! I just switched off the repeat of the GBBO!

I'm sure that soon there will be some class actions started in the US on this very matter.

 

[Phub]

Hi Sanguine. Would that be the Record, T5 shooting board plane? Or the T5 Combination woodwork machine! Lol!

Jack.. Thanks for your message. I am going to discuss the metaformin with the Doc next week. I am a bit worries about Hypo-levels hitting me.

Thanks again

John

 

[sanguine]

Hi Sanguine. Would that be the Record, T5 shooting board plane? Or the T5 Combination woodwork machine! Lol!

Lol the first one!

 

[Phub]

Gotcha! I won't make an offer. I have more than enough planes, and in any case I don't use a shooting-board!
I also have a shelf full of Records. Now before I get accused of changing the thread, I am just off to cook a high protein 'High-Tea'!

 

[Brunneria]

Sounds like low carbing is really working for you. That's brilliant.

And congratulations! - it isn't always an easy adjustment!

 

[jack412]

Gotcha! I won't make an offer. I have more than enough planes, and in any case I don't use a shooting-board!
I also have a shelf full of Records. Now before I get accused of changing the thread, I am just off to cook a high protein 'High-Tea'!

it's very unusual fro anyone that eats to have a real hypo on metformin,
LCHF isn't really high protein, it's more low carb, normal protein and healthy fats and oils play a very large role

it’s a long page and a few good video’s
http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf
For me, the more carbs we eat the more carbs we want. they don’t give up easy
http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/lowcarb101/a/firstweek.htm

American diabetic association Position Statement
http://www.professional.diabetes.org/admin/UserFiles/0 - Sean/dc132042 FINAL.pdf
Evidence is inconclusive for an ideal amount of total fat intake for people with diabetes; therefore, goals should be individualized; fat quality appears to be far more important than quantity.

In people with type 2 diabetes, a Mediterranean-style, MUFA-rich [mono fats-rich] eating pattern may benefit glycemic control and CVD risk factors and can therefore be recommended as an effective alternative to a lower-fat, higher-carbohydrate eating pattern.

 

[Phub]

Hi Jack.

The reason I an wary of metformin is that my diet has drastically reduced my sugar and starch intake. My Doctor advises the 'conventional' so-called healthy diet, based around carbs, and grains. Anathema to me. Therefore I felt that any drugs that lowered my blood sugar further might induce hypo episodes.

Now, I am probably going to get a few 'backs up' here.

The Mediterranean diet, is a non-starter for me.I spent a lot of time in the Med, and to begin with, the diet of most countries there is not to my taste.

Also, I am an absolute convert to dispensing with grains, and vegetable fats/oils from my diet. So pasta, and the various doughy Mediterranean dishes are out. I am now eating mostly meat, fish, and poultry, with green vegetables. Potatoes and most root crops are out too.

As for wheat! Wheat is a foodstuff that was virtually unavailable, before Homo Sapiens learned how to farm and to bake. As it's irrefutable that we have not changed physiologically since pre-agrarian times, I fail to see how grains can be a healthy, natural food. Wheat products, including bread, come from an organic source, but it isn't natural for us to eat grains, at least not in the quantities and forms we do today. Nor is it necessary even. Had that been the case our ancestors would have been lacking an essential they couldn't obtain. Bread, like most wheat based foods, has to be made, so it's a processed food; one of the main culprits in the obesity epidemic.

Could I become a vegetarian? Again, that life-style would be pretty bland to me, and besides, it's a choice that wouldn't have been feasible, prior to farming; Today it's practical only because of the year-round availability of vegetables and fruit, in enormous quantities and varieties. You'd have had a lean time of it trying to be a vegetarian in a true, hunter-gatherer society.

That greater minds than mine can't see these things makes me wonder what incentives they have for not telling us.

Apart from that, I am not really a food crank. Honest!

John

 

[pavlosn]

The Mediterranean diet, is a non-starter for me.I spent a lot of time in the Med, and to begin with, the diet of most countries there is not to my taste.

That's it I am taking all my previous advice back now!

Well, I don't really care for British food, so I guess that makes us even!

Taste in food and choice of diet are both matters that are individual to each of us.

Just wanted to say, without pushing you to go on metformin yourself, that in five years of being on it myself, I have only ever gone hypo on one occasion.

Even that was nothing life threatening, as I only went down to 3,6mmol, some would argue that this is still normal but for me it definitely did not feel normal. It was caused by me taking medication and then missing a meal, and was easily self treated by just having a piece of chocolate ( and very nice it was too).

I am not saying that it is impossible to hypo on metformin alone.

It is, but you have to really try to manage it.

 

[Phub]

Thanks Brunneria.

Yes indeed. Low carb suits me. I wish I had stuck with Atkins way back in the 70s. I might not be in this position now. At the time I was working away from home in a closed environment, and not eating alone. My colleagues would insist on calling me a 'fool', for trying to lose weight on bacon and eggs for breakfast, and more meat for supper etc.. So I fell off that wagon, and since then piled on the pounds.

There you go! I know who to blame!

John