Cholesterol and Statins

[Outlier]

Simply given my own experience e.g. with helping clearing out houses, and knowing quite a few old people, I suspect lack of compliance is more widespread than the prescribers of some medication think.

Maybe less profitable for drug companies but much better for medic/patient respect would be if more medics listened to their patients' concerns.

Apologies if offtopic.

 

[bulkbiker]

Just found this .. don't think we have included it here before.

 

[AndBreathe]

Simply given my own experience e.g. with helping clearing out houses, and knowing quite a few old people, I suspect lack of compliance is more widespread than the prescribers of some medication think.

Maybe less profitable for drug companies but much better for medic/patient respect would be if more medics listened to their patients' concerns.

Apologies if offtopic.

what tends to happen is patient is tested, and prescribed statins. A period later, tested again, no or not enough improvements, so dose increase, or drugs added or change. Rinse and repeat.

Not all discussions are fulsome or necessarily very accurate, but few patients seem to feel able to tell their medics they aren’t taking their meds for some reason (forgotten, lack of routine, side effects, didn’t feel the need for them in the first place, and many more), so go along with the show, with the unlikelihood of complying just replayed.

 

[MrsA2]

Aseem malhotra interview from yesterday

 

[AloeSvea]

Dr Malhotra is such a straight talker - stop eating so much ultra processed food. And medical professionals giving actual benefits of statins speech to patients and give them an informed choice, openly, in the matter.

Hear hear!

 

[bulkbiker]

Not sure if this one has been included but don't think I'd seen it before

Association Between Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol Reduction and Relative and Absolute Effects of Statin Treatment

This systematic review and meta-analysis examines the association between absolute reductions in low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels with treatment with statin therapy and all-cause mortality, myocardial infarction, and stroke.

jamanetwork.com

 

[pixie1]

Not sure if this one has been included but don't think I'd seen it before

Association Between Low-Density Lipoprotein Cholesterol Reduction and Relative and Absolute Effects of Statin Treatment

This systematic review and meta-analysis examines the association between absolute reductions in low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels with treatment with statin therapy and all-cause mortality, myocardial infarction, and stroke.

jamanetwork.com

Does it mean that taking statins increase the risks, rather than a reduction, outcome of an MI or stroke, by artificially reducing the LDLs and or the statins the cause.
I am not very good at interpreting the studies.

 

[bulkbiker]

Does it mean that taking statins increase the risks, rather than a reduction, outcome of an MI or stroke, by artificially reducing the LDLs and or the statins the cause.
I am not very good at interpreting the studies.

"A conclusive association between absolute reductions in LDL-C levels and individual clinical outcomes was not established"

i.e taking statins to lower LDL doesn't make you live any longer.

 

[pixie1]

"A conclusive association between absolute reductions in LDL-C levels and individual clinical outcomes was not established"

i.e taking statins to lower LDL doesn't make you live any longer.

Basically they have no clue, whatsoever, but still dish out statins just in case.

 

[bulkbiker]

Basically they have no clue, whatsoever, but still dish out statins just in case.

Kind of..

 

[pixie1]

Kind of..

Or LDLs is not as bad as they thought and got it completely wrong about the job ldls do?

 

[bulkbiker]

Interesting and a bit scary...

The Effect of HMG-CoA Reductase Inhibitors on Cognition in Patients With Alzheimer's Dementia: A Prospective Withdrawal and Rechallenge Pilot Study

Statins are well-known for their cardiovascular benefits. However, the cognitive effects of statins are not well understood. We hypothesized that indi…

www.sciencedirect.com

" This pilot study found an improvement in cognition with discontinuation of statins and worsening with rechallenge. Statins may adversely affect cognition in patients with dementia."

 

[Oldvatr]

Interesting and a bit scary...

The Effect of HMG-CoA Reductase Inhibitors on Cognition in Patients With Alzheimer's Dementia: A Prospective Withdrawal and Rechallenge Pilot Study

Statins are well-known for their cardiovascular benefits. However, the cognitive effects of statins are not well understood. We hypothesized that indi…

www.sciencedirect.com

" This pilot study found an improvement in cognition with discontinuation of statins and worsening with rechallenge. Statins may adversely affect cognition in patients with dementia."

Good that the FDA is enforcing changes to the prescribing info about this. The FDA will be using their equivalent to the yellow Card System, so are reflecting many (n=1) events that taken in the round amount to possible trend. So that may indicate a problem in the general public, not just in the elderly with AD

This report is strange in that it often stops... its called a hanging preposition. I must presume this is the abstract and so has been redacted somewhat.

i note that the cholesterol did not reduce when the statins were reintroduced, but this must be that the process needs more than 6 weeks use to take noticeable effect.

Here is a similar paper

The role of statins in both cognitive impairment and protection against dementia: a tale of two mechanisms

Nearly 30% of adults 40 years and older in the United States are on a statin. Their widespread use heightens the importance of careful consideration of their varied effects on the body. Although randomized controlled trials have not confirmed ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It seems that the case for reversible cognitive impairment does apply to the general public and is a well documented user reported side effect. The RCT trials performed by the drug companies on their own products has not verified these effects.

 

[Jaylee]

Interesting and a bit scary...

The Effect of HMG-CoA Reductase Inhibitors on Cognition in Patients With Alzheimer's Dementia: A Prospective Withdrawal and Rechallenge Pilot Study

Statins are well-known for their cardiovascular benefits. However, the cognitive effects of statins are not well understood. We hypothesized that indi…

www.sciencedirect.com

" This pilot study found an improvement in cognition with discontinuation of statins and worsening with rechallenge. Statins may adversely affect cognition in patients with dementia."

A few weeks back I had my “yearly” with the endo. The subject of statins came up. (He tried pushing them on me again.)
“Why are you still not taking them?” He enquired like I still had “Thomas the tank engine” bedsheets & used a night light.

Lol, I mentioned some “reports” and stuff regarding the effect on the cognitive & that I needed to maintain mine in a job that needs my full focus. Not to mention the other creative areas of my life..

He then defensively claimed his scientific resources were more reliable than mine..

Oh, he then added, “there are different types of statins. If you don’t get on with this one, I can prescribe another…”
I asked him if he was willing to give me a job too..

 

[Oldvatr]

This may help us to interpret the statistics used in the statin trial reports

What are the odds that your medication will help you get better?

Although we think if a doctor prescribes a medication that it's going to help, a lot of therapies benefit very few patients.

www.statnews.com

Here is another way of looking at it, via the chance of mortality

Evaluation of Time to Benefit of Statins for the Primary Prevention of Cardiovascular Events in Adults Aged 50 to 75 Years: A Meta-analysis

What is the time to benefit of statin therapy for primary prevention of cardiovascular events in adults aged 50 to 75 years?In this survival meta-analysis of 8 trials randomizing 65 383 adults, 2.5 (95% CI, 1.7-3.4) years were needed to avoid ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[bulkbiker]

The RCT trials performed by the drug companies on their own products has not verified these effects.

Odd that....

 

[Lainie71]

My mums condition got worse after taking statins. My dad bless him, took them literally on and off, more off to be honest and he was as bright as a firecracker! My mum is now a shadow of her former self to the point she sleeps all day, cannot communicate, so I don't think it will be long now before the inevitable happens. I will take my chances and opt out of Statins, they don't ask me now anyway.

 

[angelface]

At my recent few months' check up the doctor told me my Liver Function test was not good at all. She mentioned Deranged Liver Function and she was not happy at all with the results. She told me to stop the Statins. I was glad because I wasn't happy taking them in the first place.

Only been a week now, but I feel much better without them and can focus more clearly. Just my experience. I have an ultrasound booked for April.

 

[ravensmitten]

Just been told my cholesterol levels were at 10. ( or 10% risk or something like that?) saying its only just over the level where they start to offer medication but as I'd made significant changes to my diet since Jan (low carb) and was tested only in Feb it might not be nesc if I didn't want to take medication.

Which of course I'd rather avoid if I can do by doing something differently myself first. So we both agreed to decline and test again in 6 months time.

Should have asked more questions, she did outline a risk in the next ten years but I'm sure she wasn't that good with stats when I looked it up.

 

[Donnadoobie]

I have not posted on this forum for a few years but today, I am so at a loss of what to do that I thought I would vent my frustrations.



I am pre diabetic and have managed to keep my glucose levels around 40-43 over the past 8 years. Could be better but I am managing it.



Cholesterol on the other hand is not playing ball and a few years ago I had a test come back at 7.8, Gp gave me 3 months to retake and it came back at 5.8. A pat on the back and off I went. Then a couple of years later it came back as 8, given another 3 months and I got it to 5.6.



Last year, I was sprung another test without warning and, you guessed it, it came back at 8.9! She was adamant I went on statins but I bought another 3 months and even though I had a holiday and a wedding in between but thought if I kept to plan the rest of the time I would be ok. It came back at 6.8, they were much happier and asked for a 6 month review.



I came back from Scotland on 2nd January and Knuckled down to a good way of eating. No alcohol, oily fish 3 times a week, tried avocados and discovered I am allergic to them but persevered using only olive oils and avocado oil to cook with and have with salads, ditched the mayo and low carb bread cooked everything from scratch and ate nuts as a snack. Reduced the few carbs I ate and I upped my supplements, taking Plant sterols, berberine and lecithin 3 times a day and drinking Inulin before bed. I was so focussed.

I booked a blood test for 23rd March and yesterday off I went. Got the results back today and it has come back as 7.5! I am devastated. I had tried so hard and all for nothing. Now they will definitely want me on a statin, something I have tried to avoid but the thing that most upsets me is because I tried so hard.



Not sure where I go from here. Saw what statins did to my lovely mum and they scare me. I have felt like crying all day. I am feeling “ what is the point?!”



A1c was 43, better than 46 last year and I have lost a stone since my test in May 22.



If you made it this far thanks for reading.