Dawn Phenomenon is driving me insane!

emma13

Newbie
Messages
1
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi everyone. I've been reading various posts and checking out the information on this site for a few weeks now. Today I took the plunge and signed up, so here's my first post!

I was rushed into hospital unconscious in January with Ketoacidosis and a blood sugar reading of 30 in January this year. I am getting married in July, had just bought a house with my fiancé and was feeling pretty great... I honestly can't believe I didn't know I was Diabetic (Type 1) and feel so silly.

After a stint in hospital, and lots of time at my local Diabetes Clinic which I have to say has been pretty great, I'm still feeling confused. There are so many stories out there, and so much information, it's all overwhelming. To top things off, I'm also suffering with the 'dawn phenomenon' and I'd really like to get some other opinions/advice on this topic.

I'd love to hear from anyone with any advice, after a few weeks of feeling sorry for myself, I've gone back to work, started going back to the gym and have resumed wedding planning finally so thankfully there's some normality returning to my life and I feel like I'm ready to learn more about Type 1 Diabetes.

Many Thanks in advance.
 
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nigelwallace

Newbie
Messages
2
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
sport, politics,
Hello emma13, I too need to ask this question. Why should my pre-breakfast reading this morning be 9.2 when pre-dinner last evening was 4.8 and pre-lunch today 7.1? Can one control this 'liver dump' phenomenon and how?
 

nigelwallace

Newbie
Messages
2
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
sport, politics,
Again not a reply emma13 but an apology that my own question avoided responding to yours. Good for you getting back to work and doing the gym thing. Buying a house and getting married are two of the most stressful things a person can do and both together will likely impose its cost on your body and mind. Bad luck for you but you sound resourceful and optimistic and a whole life ahead of you. Very good luck with your future plans and your management of your type 1.
 
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catapillar

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,390
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi @emma13 type 1 diabetes is an acute onset condition. There's no reason you would know you have type 1 until you are ill with it. So don't be feeling silly about that.

In respect of the dawn phenomenon, how are you managing your diabetes? What does your dawn phenomenon look like to be driving you insane - i.e what's your bed time and waking numbers?
 

Ultramum

Well-Known Member
Messages
840
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I'm tagging @daisy1 who will come along and post some info for you.

I'm type 2 so can't really give much practical advice but keep reading around the forum and you will find lots of info
 

daisy1

Legend
Messages
26,457
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Cruelty towards animals.
@emma13

Hello Emma and welcome to the Forum :) Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask as many questions as you want and someone will be able to answer.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:
  • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
  • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates
Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a free 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
  • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

  • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
  • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. They're all free.
  • Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why
  • Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
 

Nidge247

Well-Known Member
Messages
205
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Diet only
Hello @emma13

Firstly WELCOME to the forum.

DP is something you will have to get used to I'm afraid, however the best way to tackle it for me has been to avoid eating after 9pm, which will limit my BG rise to around 6.5 - 7 on waking (that's from a bedtime reading usually around 4.8).

Are you on lchf & carb counting? Have you got a diary to record your carb intake and insulin taken? These two things alone can help far more than folk realise.

If you work with your body rather than trying to fight against it (not that you were), you will find D so much easier to live with - most folk living round here have now forgotten I have D, as it affects my life so little now I have good control.
 

mentat

Well-Known Member
Messages
419
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Hi emma13,

The dawn phenomenon varies quite a lot between people, and sometimes over time for an individual. I have had months where I had a massive DP, and months where I had none at all.

The best weapon against DP is an insulin pump. This allows you to set a higher basal rate during the hours when your DP occurs. For example, I might set my pump to deliver 0.7 units/hr from midnight to 4am, and then 1.0 units/hr from 4am to 8am.

If you are on injections, you can try switching between Levemir/Lantus/Toujeo/Tresiba to see if any of them improves the situation. Personally I had success taking a combination of Metformin and Levemir in the past, however Metformin is not normally prescribed to people with Type 1.
 

Neoncat

Well-Known Member
Messages
86
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Hi Emma13,

I too had horrible dawn phenomenon. By wearing a Libre I actually found it was the waking and getting up process that was causing me to spike and with increased insulin resistance at that time in the morning I was in all kinds of trouble. I found metformin really helped me with this as it helped stop the early morning liver dump being so dramatic. I still need to take a few extra units of fast acting to cover the natural morning rise but it has made a big difference to me. I am on MDI and I was prescribed it by my endocrinologist at the diabetic clinic although it was mainly to help with PCOS symptoms, the diabetic improvements were sort of a bonus reason!

Exercise really helps too.