Dear Giverny, re censorship

[academicdiabetic]

Dear Giverny,

I started the thread 'recent insulin study' in 'Diabetes Discussions' which you - innapropriately I feel - closed down today on the grounds that the forum was no place for "scaremongering... potentially dangerous information". Briefly overlooking the evident similarities with approaches taken in Orwell's 1984 (truth is such an inconveniently dangerous thing isn't it?), could I please query your precise grounds for closing down this apparently rather popular and, I felt, informative thread? Could you point, for example, to the specific comment added to the thread which you felt to be 'scaremongering' or 'potentially dangerous'? Certainly, for my part, the information I posted was an accurate reflection of information which is in the public domain and which I am very well qualified to interpret. A number of, often interesting and occasionally conflicting, viewpoints were added - this is the nature of debate, which, I would assume, is the primary function of a 'forum' (the latter deriving its title from debating habits embedded within the Roman political structure - which history suggests would themselves also have been on occasion fairly frank, forthright and not always in line with establishment views!) Whilst I believe one comment on the thread (given the moderator note added) may have included (somewhat oddly) a profanity, this having been 'blanked out', it clearly could not serve to give offence and all other comments on this thread, as far as I can tell, were civilised and entirely appropriate for this setting. So, could you please confirm what it was you took exception to in respect of the thread? I would appreciate it if you could be specific and give details of the individual comment(s) and content to which you objected.

Thank you.

AcademicDiabetic

 

[hale710]

I think this would be more appropriate to be sent via PM to Giverny. If nothing else it's likely to be missed here. PM is a far more suitable form of personal contact


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[ElyDave]

I think the point is, by doing that it buys into the censorship agenda by doing it out of the public view.

This is a perpetual issue on all of the other forums I've ever been on as well - who own's the forum, and who decides the censorship boundaries?

I haven't read the thread in question, but if AD has given a truthful representation above, I'm not sure why there's a problem?

 

[hale710]

I've not read the thread either, but Giv doesn't read every thread and is likely to miss this!


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[xyzzy]

I agree 100% with the OPS post. What is the point of a diabetes forum if you can't have an adult and informed discussion.

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[MCMLXXIII]

Whatever is decided. Isn't Giverny a cracking name for an upmarket perfume?


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[smidge]

I think the point is, by doing that it buys into the censorship agenda by doing it out of the public view

For information, I did PM Giverny concerning the locking of this thread yesterday. She did reply promptly with an explanation. As it was via PM, I don't feel it would be right of me to comment further on her reasons except to say I think she is mistaken her approach. This is the problem with PM'ing this type of issue - it doesn't satifactorily sort things out and leaves the feeling of censorship based on the views or preferences of an individual - and that is to the detriment of the forum as a whole.

Smidge

 

[janewatt]

Thank you for this thread, academicdiabetic.

I've been interestedly following the original one and learning lots. The different views are excellent for making one think widely about a lot of issues and how they're presented.
I hadn't realised the thread had been locked, and feel that it would be helpful if these actions were always done with public explanation.

i hope it's not too much out of place here, but given some recent posts I wonder about having guidance on reaction to posts such as those from "university of Carmarthen" and aliases. Would it not be better if we all ignored them completely? I imagine (and may well be wrong as I can't see why anyone would do what (s)he does) that there is some satisfaction in even the most tongue-in-cheek of responses?

I'm an avid reader of the Forum even if I rarely post, (apart from in General Chat!). i really appreciate the time others put into replying, even if i can't always agree with their ways of doing so.

Jane.

 

[desidiabulum]

I assume that the concern was that people would be alarmed and worried by the suggestion that taking insulin has its own dangers, and could take fright and stop taking it. That concern is fair enough, but that means the challenge is to find a way of avoiding people misinterpreting things in that way. Simply locking a thread that tries to discuss such issues is not a solution, and one cannot have content dictated by whoever feels the most offence, or whoever would leap to the wrong conclusions. There are countless websites spreading misleading and dangerous information that impressionable diabetics could already be misled by, while others could misunderstand their condition simply by reading the Daily Mail.

Surely the forum needs to find some alternative ways of dealing with important and sometimes controversial issues, where people suggest what may be uncomfortable but legitimate conclusions?. If moderators are genuinely concerned that a discussion might alarm some readers, should they maybe consider re-allocating the thread at that point to another section of the forum (perhaps labelled 'Adults Only' or 'Not for those of a nervous disposition'?) so that the discussion can continue?
From another academicdiabetic!

 

[mo1905]

It's not an easy call to make but there are and have been many occasions where a thread descends into personal attack and abuse and goes way off track to the original question posed. I also don't think a good use of the forum is taking it in turns to copy and paste opposing scientific papers. Not saying the locked thread was like that but there have been occasions when I agree with a moderator locking them.


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[chubbyian]

I find it really difficult to know what people are getting at. What is the problem here, we are all adults, we live in a society. Just like any society we live with rules and guidelines.

Most of the people posting on here are, I suspect, parents. IF you are properly grown up, you must know that at the end of the day someone MUST take responsibility of whatever.

I think we should just sit back and weigh things up. IS this one of the best forums for diabetics?? Do we truly appreciate all the work and effort put in by the administrators to bring us this site?? and I might add, without cost to us.

Come on people, stop acting like children that have had there ball taken from them. For goodness sake, IF we disagree with a decision, well thats life, I personally disagree with lots of decisions made by a lot of people. But at the end of the day,This is a great place to be, full of useful help and advice. The thread mentioned might have been good and informative to some, but at we need to behave like adults and not spoilt children.

 

[Mongoose39uk]

the thread is still there to read so I don't really see it as censorship. More of it was going nowhere other than repeating the same stuff over and again.

 

[xyzzy]

the thread is still there to read so I don't really see it as censorship. More of it was going nowhere other than repeating the same stuff over and again.

Whether or not a thread is repeating itself and going nowhere is no excuse for censorship. Many threads go nowhere but aren't locked.

It is censorship plain and simple and to be frank DCUK and especially Giverny have a history of this in the past where despite overwhelming protests from members they have arbitrarily imposed censorship of adult debate (not name calling) of diabetes issues for god only knows what reasoning.

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[Mongoose39uk]

Whatever, not exactly important enough to bother with to be frank.

 

[Giverny]

There has been exactly zero censorship in any sense, other than one post which could have led people to make dangerous decisions about their health. The thread was CLOSED, not deleted. This means all the advice and discussion still remains there, fully intact.

I feel history is repeating itself here, so I am also going to CLOSE (not censor or delete) this thread too. If you wish to raise an issue with me, please do it via private message.

@xyzzy I removed one post which may have led T2 users to STOP taking their insulin altogether. This directly breaks the forum rule whereby users may not post dangerous medical information.