Fats and Carbs - interesting article.

[VinnyJames]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...s-The-Fast-Diet-author-DR-MICHAEL-MOSLEY.html



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[mine]

oh come on , what makes you think they will admit that. proofing them 30 years of wrong advise and might ended up being sued.

 

[VinnyJames]

The medical profession are realising that low carb, high fat diets work for many diabetics.


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[Brunneria]

It certainly works for me.

 

[VinnyJames]

It certainly works for me.

Me too!!


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[IanD]

What will it take for the NHS & DUK to admit their diet advice for many years has been WRONG?

They may approve low carb (only down to around 150 g per day) but increased fat? NEVER?

It's a war to the death - sadly of many diabetics who trust the NHS & DUK.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

What will it take for the NHS & DUK to admit their diet advice for many years has been WRONG?

They may approve low carb (only down to around 150 g per day) but increased fat? NEVER?

It's a war to the death - sadly of many diabetics who trust the NHS & DUK.

A war to the death?_____Really?

The reason that the NHS and DUK dont admit that they are wrong is that the vast majority of doctors, cardiologists and diabetics do not agree that it is a good idea to increase the fat in your diet.

Might I remind you what the SouthportGP recommended, you know the member here who all the lc promoters where fawning over a few months ago, he wrote that he recommends the following among other things but I am picking these sections as they are relevant to your rant.

Quote:
Fats (yes, fats can be fine in moderation): olive oil is very useful, butter may be tastier than
margarine and could be better for you! Coconut oil is great for stir fries. Four essential vitamins
A, D, E and K are only found in some fats or oils. Please avoid margarine, corn oil and vegetable
oil. Beware ‘low fat’ foods. They often have sugar or sweeteners added to make them palatable.
Full fat mayonnaise and pesto are definitely on!!

Cheese: only in moderation – it’s a very calorific mixture of fat, carbs and protein.

Snacks: avoid. But un-salted nuts such as almonds or walnuts are great to stave off hunger. The
occasional treat of strong dark chocolate 70% or more in small quantity is allowed.

I have quoted the whole relevant paragraphs so no one can accuse me of cherry picking. And in case anyone has forgotten his brilliant advice the whole article can be read here http://www.practicaldiabetes.com/SpringboardWebApp/userfiles/espdi/file/March 2014/PP Unwin final proofs revised.pdf

Its not a war its sensible advice Ian, can you not accept that not everyone wants to eat or even agrees with the diet you recommend?

Sid

 

[Pollylocks]

What will it take for the NHS & DUK to admit their diet advice for many years has been WRONG?

They may approve low carb (only down to around 150 g per day) but increased fat? NEVER?

It's a war to the death - sadly of many diabetics who trust the NHS & DUK.

I'm a lowish carb, medium fat dieter since being on this forum and its improved my bs levels no end....however the HIGH fat doesn't sit well with me, it just doesn't seem right ...I really don't know whether the low carbs or the medium fat have reduced my bs levels...or if its a combination of both...

I don't want to stuff my face with high levels of fat, as it doesn't seem natural to me, but maybe its just me, whether it be good fats or not...

We're all individual, what suits one won't suit another, we have to pick and choose and find out what is right for us..

 

[Enclave]

@Pollylocks ... When you low carb you need to get energy from somewhere .. So think of fat as the fuel your body needs to work.

 

[sally and james]

It's a pity that the phrase "high fat" ever got tagged on to "low carb". It's the low carb bit which keeps blood sugars down and can remove the need for medication and may save diabetics from complications. High fat, or any fat for that matter, is irrelevant and just gives those who don't want to take an alternative look at things an excuse to reject an important idea.
This research, which has very positive low carb conclusions,
http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0899-9007(14)00332-3/fulltext
tends to use the expression, LCKD, low carb ketogenic diet, which is rather more logical and one which, I think, we should adopt.

The important thing is for diabetics to cut down on carbs to the extent where their own body can cope, be this simply giving up chips or keeping to under 30g per day. Those who cut out the most, will need to get energy from somewhere else, a bit more fat is an obvious source. I understand that there is no evidence that this will do you any harm, but, if you really don't like olive oil, cream, butter, bacon, avocados, nuts etc …….. well there it is.
Diabetics who don't want to cut down on carbs, have the option to take medication, as needed, to help them cope with what they do consume. This has been the official, preferred NHS approach to date. In my experience, there are lots of medics out there who support a low carb approach, especially the more senior ones, who can say what they think, rather than having to follow the party line.
Sally

 

[Brunneria]

I like LCKD, and I also like LCEF (low carb enough fat).

I do find it rather annoying when people obsess about the fat - no one is ever going to tie them down and squirt lard down their throat!

I recently trundled over to the bloodsugar101 website where there is a calculator designed to prescribe the likely balance of nutrients needed for your body on a LCHF diet.

Fascinating.

It asks age, height, weight, exercise amount, amount of carbs you want to eat, whether you want to lose weight...
Then it calculates the amount of carb, fat and protein tailored to you.

Turns out, I should/could be eating MORE fat. Lol.
But since I am very content with my diet, enjoy it, and seem to be effortlessly losing weight slowly, I'll keep to the fat level I'm on. I'm constantly slipping in and out of ketosis, which pleases me tremendously. But I should up my protein a little, some days.

 

[mo1905]

I've never been a fan of the term "high" in any diet. Most here agree that reducing intake of carbs certainly helps controlling BG levels. That, however, is where the agreement usually ends as trying to agree on specific amount of carbs or what to replace them with will never be agreed upon. My particular diet is just reduced carb, simple. What I replace the carbs with varies daily.

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[sally and james]

@Brunneria How do you know you are "slipping in and out of ketosis"? Are you testing, if so, how and what level are you aiming for, or do you just assume you are, because no carb has passed your lips all day? Would love any guidance. I would really like to be able to measure how we are doing in this respect.
Sally

 

[Brunneria]

@Brunneria How do you know you are "slipping in and out of ketosis"? Are you testing, if so, how and what level are you aiming for, or do you just assume you are, because no carb has passed your lips all day? Would love any guidance. I would really like to be able to measure how we are doing in this respect.
Sally

I can only offer a very unscientific answer - I can feel ketosis.

My body gives me some subtle, and some not-so-subtle signals, and it is helpful to know (thanks @Spiker for pointing this out) that ketosis is a sliding scale, not an on/off switch.

My signals are variable, and include
Sleeping better
Waking up more refreshed
Coping with this heat and muggy weather better than usual
Being less appetising to Mosquitos (yeah, I kid you not!)
Better clarity of mind
Better concentration
Steady, slow release energy
Muscles don't start burning during sustained exercise
Not feeling I need to flop and recover after work, or during late evening
Getting up to fetch my reading glasses, instead of managing without
Taking my empty cup back to the kitchen, rather than waiting til I want the next drink
Contemplation DIY jobs that I have been letting slide for a while
Coming in from the garden with a handful of weeds, because it seemed easier to grab them 'there and then' rather than putting it off...

Spot the pattern?

Of course, there is another way of looking at it:
My body is happier in ketosis than it has ever been when eating carbs. Carbs make me sluggish, achy, lethargic, droopy, with restless sleep, sweaty sleep and unable to cope with hot weather. Carbs cause me swollen ankles and hot flushes and perspiration and strange static itchy feelings.

I think my tolerance for carbs is lower than most peoples'.

So if I remove enough carbs to be comfortable (less than 50-70g carbs/day), then my body must be running on ketones (somewhere on that sliding scale of ketosis).

And a delightfully unlooked for bonus is that I'm sssllloooowwwwllllyyyy losing weight.

So it's all good, really.

Hope that helps!

 

[Pollylocks]

@Pollylocks ... When you low carb you need to get energy from somewhere .. So think of fat as the fuel your body needs to work.

...but I have a balance, lower carbs than I used to eat, higher amount of fat. and I stress higher not high...my daily carb intake is around 100g daily so its nowhere near as low as some on here....it works for me, my bs readings are better and I'm happy to carry on this way....

..I always seem to be banging on in here about how we are all individuals and what suits one may not suit another but its true! I see so many newbies being advised not to eat pasta, bread, potatoes, rice etc. I can eat no end of rice with no effect on my bs levels, I can eat boiled potatoes but not mashed [its something to do with the chemical makeup changing, I read somewhere]..... pasta and bread however, nearly all types, raise my levels. Others are affected differently.

....Its not a case of one blanket fits all in my experience, diabetes is a minefield, we are just tapping the edge of it....we may all have been diagnosed with the one illness but there's no one way of treating it regarding diet...this forum has been a godsend for me and pointed me in the right direction but we all have to tweak our diet to suit ourselves, its trial and error as far as I can see..

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Well personally I cant see why everyone cant just agree to call it a low carb diet and have done with it, not everyone wants to eat a high fat diet and not everyone wants to eat a ketogenic diet.

So if it were just referred to as a lc diet or better still a low carb lifestyle then everyone could at least agree that it was not a good idea to eat the carbs we used to consume.

The advice here used to be simple, to reduce the carbs in your diet bu the amount to control your bg levels and eat to your meter, but now I all hear is buzz words like 'high fat' and 'ketogenic'. Surely we all know by now that there are as many diabetic diets as there are diabetics and all that anyone should worry about is is it working for me, if it is fine, if it isnt then look at what your doing and change something, but do something, dont keep thinking that by doing the same thing it will suddenly start to work just because someone told you it will.

Ive found what works for me and wish everyone else good luck in finding out what works for them. Phrases like "war to the death" help no one.

 

[Pipp]

...but I have a balance, lower carbs than I used to eat, higher amount of fat. and I stress higher not high...my daily carb intake is around 100g daily so its nowhere near as low as some on here....it works for me, my bs readings are better and I'm happy to carry on this way....

..I always seem to be banging on in here about how we are all individuals and what suits one may not suit another but its true! I see so many newbies being advised not to eat pasta, bread, potatoes, rice etc. I can eat no end of rice with no effect on my bs levels, I can eat boiled potatoes but not mashed [its something to do with the chemical makeup changing, I read somewhere]..... pasta and bread however, nearly all types, raise my levels. Others are affected differently.

....Its not a case of one blanket fits all in my experience, diabetes is a minefield, we are just tapping the edge of it....we may all have been diagnosed with the one illness but there's no one way of treating it regarding diet...this forum has been a godsend for me and pointed me in the right direction but we all have to tweak our diet to suit ourselves, its trial and error as far as I can see..

Have to agree with @Pollylocks
We all need to find our own level. After getting blood glucose controlled and keeping it that way for almost 3 years after losing a lot of weight on Newcastle diet I came to the forum as I still have considerable weight to lose.
Methods other members use to lose weight and control blood glucose levels sounded interesting and appealing as one cannot continue very low calorie diets forever. Alas, some suggested diets have not worked for me. So I would be cautious in offering advice to new members on a particular method, they need to look at a variety of methods and decide which suits them best.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I totally agree with you @Pollylocks My carb intake is between 60 and 70g so I have had to up my fats, but did this by returning to real butter, real yogurt, real mayo. I don't eat cream and don't fry. We virtually dry fry on a griddle, although I do like my mushrooms griddled in a little butter.. We do use a deep fat fryer for home made chips when we have them. I had to start eating some cheese a couple of weeks ago - never touched the stuff before, but I needed extra calories as I had reached my goal weight. In other words, I have increased my fat but don't go overboard and don't add it for the sake of it, but don't actively avoid it. This has worked for me. My BS are under control and I have reduced my BMI from 31 to 24.

Each to their own.

 

[Pipp]

Well personally I cant see why everyone cant just agree to call it a low carb diet and have done with it, not everyone wants to eat a high fat diet and not everyone wants to eat a ketogenic diet.

So if it were just referred to as a lc diet or better still a low carb lifestyle then everyone could at least agree that it was not a good idea to eat the carbs we used to consume.

The advice here used to be simple, to reduce the carbs in your diet bu the amount to control your bg levels and eat to your meter, but now I all hear is buzz words like 'high fat' and 'ketogenic'. Surely we all know by now that there are as many diabetic diets as there are diabetics and all that anyone should worry about is is it working for me, if it is fine, if it isnt then look at what your doing and change something, but do something, dont keep thinking that by doing the same thing it will suddenly start to work just because someone told you it will.

Ive found what works for me and wish everyone else good luck in finding out what works for them. Phrases like "war to the death" help no one.

I think it was the 'high fat' title that confused me at first, and eating until you have had enough. Unfortunately I didn't know when I had had enough.
I had also previously took notice of the NHS protocol, carbs with every meal. Can't believe that I did that for 20 years, before realising something was not quite right as on that regime I doubled in size and gained T2. Can't believe I was so gullible, but forgive myself as I had a lot of other angst in my life all that time.
It was only when I did my own research, and came up with a plan for myself that I started to lose weight, and control blood glucose after6 years of diabetic levels. So would suggest that newly diagnosed need to read as much as they can and try to find something that works for them.
One thing that does seem to be agreed on here is that the carbs need to be reduced. So maybe 'Low carb' without the added 'high fat' is a good title. Then folks can choose for themselves whether they replace the carbs with high/medium fat or veg or whatever is right for them.

 

[Scandichic]

...but I have a balance, lower carbs than I used to eat, higher amount of fat. and I stress higher not high...my daily carb intake is around 100g daily so its nowhere near as low as some on here....it works for me, my bs readings are better and I'm happy to carry on this way....

..I always seem to be banging on in here about how we are all individuals and what suits one may not suit another but its true! I see so many newbies being advised not to eat pasta, bread, potatoes, rice etc. I can eat no end of rice with no effect on my bs levels, I can eat boiled potatoes but not mashed [its something to do with the chemical makeup changing, I read somewhere]..... pasta and bread however, nearly all types, raise my levels. Others are affected differently.

....Its not a case of one blanket fits all in my experience, diabetes is a minefield, we are just tapping the edge of it....we may all have been diagnosed with the one illness but there's no one way of treating it regarding diet...this forum has been a godsend for me and pointed me in the right direction but we all have to tweak our diet to suit ourselves, its trial and error as far as I can see..

I agree!
I have to get rid of starchy carbs! I have no choice. My blood sugar goes through the roof! I've never cared for potatoes (unless crisp or chips ) , rice tastes of nothing but I miss pasta and bread. I believe in eating to your meter. That said, there is lots of evidence provided in support of LCHF and most of the people I have come across who follow that regime seem to be a lot more tolerant of people who eat low GI or low fat. On the other hand people who eat LCHF are regularly told that their diet is bad without scientific justification but just the expectation that they will do as they are told. Wouldn't it be nice if we could live and let live!