FREESTYLE LIBRE ON SALE!!!!

[smidge]

Might have been in the manual (which I still haven't finished reading yet).

So I've not been very well today - just a bad cold, but my BG has been mad. Anyway, I was lying around bored earlier and I actually read the manual at last! On page 26 is a complete explanation of the directional arrows! Oh, and it means what the customer service guy told me about the speed of change of the horizontal arrow was wrong! It also means that neither of my sensors have been working properly! Anyway, so that you don't all have to RTFM, here is the explanation:

Vertical up arrow - BG rising more than 0.1 mmol per minute
Diagonal up arrow - BG rising between 0.06 and 0.1 mmol per minute
Horizontal arrow - BG changing less than 0.06 mmol per minute
Diagonal down arrow - BG falling between 0.06 and 0.1 mmol per minute
Vertical down arrow - BG falling more than 0.1 mmol per minute

So there you have it. Neither of my sensors have accurately indicated this. They have let me drift several mmol with a horizontal arrow. I feel another discussion with Abbotts coming on!

Smidge

 

[tim2000s]

Very interesting. Puts some interesting colour on what we've all seen, and suggests to me that Abbott might have some explaining to do. I've seen that kind of variance on horizontal too.

EDIT: Although, thinking about it, at <0.06 mmol/min, you'd see a variation of 1 mmol every 15 mins or so. This isn't that unreasonable, and thinking about what I've seen, seems fairly reflective.

 

[robert72]

Finally I see some direction arrows, but it took a surprise plummet in levels to invoke them.

Looking at the graph, I should have had some verticals.

 

[robert72]

Ah... just checked the dose/timer on both of my Novopens, as I have been in the 3s for rather too long.
Seems I took 11u of NovoRapid instead of Tresiba Oh well, it should be worn out in another hour

 

[Emmotha]

Ah... just checked the dose/timer on both of my Novopens, as I have been in the 3s for rather too long.
Seems I took 11u of NovoRapid instead of Tresiba Oh well, it should be worn out in another hour

Eek! Are you ok today @robert72 ?

 

[phoenix]

@smidge

Well, we know that the Libre fails to pick up directional change if it is happening at less than 0.1mmol per minute - the Customer Service rep told me that yesterday

Oh, and it means what the customer service guy told me about the speed of change of the horizontal arrow was wrong!

I knew there were some advantages to using mg/dl, much easier to get your head round .
From my manual.
Vertical up arrow - BG rising more than 2mg/dl per minute
Diagonal up arrow - BG rising between 1 and 2 mg/dl per minute
Horizontal arrow - BG changing less than 1mg/ d/l minute
Diagonal down arrow - BG falling between 1md 2mg.dl per minute
Vertical down arrow - BG falling more than 2mg/dl per minute [/QUOTE]

Do you actual contact Abbott UK or the place in France that sent it? (someone back earlier mentioned that the number they had was a French one) I looked the company that sent it up and found it's part of a huge operation.
AS healthcare (who the meter was sent from) is part of Arvato who run distribution and payment centres, if I read the jargon correctly (not my sort of language) they also seem to supply multi lingual call centre support . I wonder if it is this company rather than Abbott itself that are dealing with all these enquiries.
(hence muddling units 0.1mmol/l /1mgdl?)
http://www.arvato-healthcare.de/en/competences/crm-customer-content-services.html
http://www.arvatohightech.com/en/services-solutions/aftermarket-services/technical-support.html

 

[robert72]

Eek! Are you ok today @robert72 ?

Yes thanks @Emmotha - bit of a bumpy night, a few mild hypos (low 3s) which I managed not to over treat. Woke up with a 9.

 

[kitty55]

Now that's certainly an odd set of results, but here's the thing. I had injected a couple of units of insulin into the same arm as the sensor is attached to. Now this shouldn't do anything to the readings specifically, but.. I am slightly suspicious.

When I spoke to the customer service yesterday I enquired about putting the Omnipod on the same arm as the sensor and they discouraged me from doing so as they said it might well give you faulty readings but it hasn't been tested yet as such. It's annoying as it makes me lose one pump site which I prefer to my belly but hey well. I can see that it might not work if the pump sits exactly next to your sensor and I guess it's the same with injecting close to the sensor.

I have put my 2nd sensor yesterday night rather on the back of my arm and am still waiting for it to "settle in" as it gives me odd readings. But the 24hrs are not over yet so there's hope

 

[igmr]

Yes thanks @Emmotha - bit of a bumpy night, a few mild hypos (low 3s) which I managed not to over treat. Woke up with a 9.

Glad you are okay. I've made the same mistake a couple of times, which is why I now use Novopen Echo's with their little timers and last dose indicators. It was one of these mistakes that convinced me that splitting my Levemir was a very good idea. 32u of Novorapid all at the same time was not one of my finer insulin experiences!

I find that my mild hypos are high 2's with the Libre scan, mid to high 3's with a Libre finger prick and 4ish on a bayer usb contour next. The feelings are the same, its the values that change. Makes it difficult comparing notes.

I can understand the Libre scan giving a low result, a lot safer. Unfortunately it only gives a low reading when my BGs are stable or going up. When my BGs are dropping it gives a high value - I have seen a scan 2mmol higher than a BG test. That time lag between scan and BG can really catch you out.

 

[hale710]

When I first started with the Libre I was NEVER seeing anything like this. 3 hours after breakfast and there's barely even a blip in the line. That's what I like to see!

 

[robert72]

Glad you are okay. I've made the same mistake a couple of times, which is why I now use Novopen Echo's with their little timers and last dose indicators. It was one of these mistakes that convinced me that splitting my Levemir was a very good idea. 32u of Novorapid all at the same time was not one of my finer insulin experiences!

I find that my mild hypos are high 2's with the Libre scan, mid to high 3's with a Libre finger prick and 4ish on a bayer usb contour next. The feelings are the same, its the values that change. Makes it difficult comparing notes.

I can understand the Libre scan giving a low result, a lot safer. Unfortunately it only gives a low reading when my BGs are stable or going up. When my BGs are dropping it gives a high value - I have seen a scan 2mmol higher than a BG test. That time lag between scan and BG can really catch you out.

The useful thing about the Libre was that I could see where I was headed and take pre-emptive action, otherwise I would have had a bad hypo. I did spot checks with the AC Mobile as well, which compares very well with the Libre's strip tests.

 

[tim2000s]

32u of Novorapid all at the same time was not one of my finer insulin experiences!

Ouch. I can imagine how unpleasant that must be. Double dosing on 8u is bad enough.

I can understand the Libre scan giving a low result, a lot safer. Unfortunately it only gives a low reading when my BGs are stable or going up. When my BGs are dropping it gives a high value - I have seen a scan 2mmol higher than a BG test. That time lag between scan and BG can really catch you out.

What I've noticed on the Libre is that, as expected, the Interstitial fluid is behind the blood sugar, so typically, when you start to drop relatively quickly the sensor has to catch up. Likewise, going the other way, you get a similar lag. Having said that, once I've stabilised at a level I've found the bg tests and ig numbers to be remarkably close. Typically, the sudden drop, which may have a lag associated with it, usually has a vertical down arrow, even if the value is above where I feel it should be, and I'll take glucose then finger prick afterwards. That has worked well for me.

 

[Sideburnt]

Hummmm. Humble pie time I think. Having had a great experience thus far with little settling in time needed, with two days of life left, my sensor decided this evening to do something rather odd...

I tested post eating and got 8.9 and an up arrow. Ten mins later, this had jumped to 9.4 and an up arrow, so I finger pricked. 8.1. Then a further 10 mins later, 10.5 on the scan with a vertical up arrow and 8.5 on the finger prick, followed by 10 mins later and the scan is back at 8.8 and a horizontal arrow with a finger prick at 8.9.

Now that's certainly an odd set of results, but here's the thing. I had injected a couple of units of insulin into the same arm as the sensor is attached to. Now this shouldn't do anything to the readings specifically, but.. I am slightly suspicious.

Certainly a very odd behaviour but it seems to be back behaving again now.

I can kind of understand why this reading did what it did. The sensor is trying to adjust to a delayed interstatial fluid reading by using an algorithm to predict the path of glucose rise/drop. When you ate dinner you got a spike that went dramatically up and sat at about 9mmol/l. The Libre noticed that your blood sugar spiked and attempted to predict that you would spike much higher, you didn't so it settled back into your correct reading of 8.9 after recording two readings within .5mmol/l of each other (as in, the spike wasn't going as high as predicted).

I've found that my brain is starting to get aligned with the Libre, I use the trend arrow to help me predict my actual figure if there's a dramatic change. horizontal, and the difference is minimal between this and a finger prick test. up or down at an angle and I know I'm roughly within .5mmol/l of the libre. Vertical arrows can mean I'm changing fast, the Libre (hopefully) predicts a worst case scenario.

 

[smidge]

Very interesting. Puts some interesting colour on what we've all seen, and suggests to me that Abbott might have some explaining to do. I've seen that kind of variance on horizontal too.

EDIT: Although, thinking about it, at <0.06 mmol/min, you'd see a variation of 1 mmol every 15 mins or so. This isn't that unreasonable, and thinking about what I've seen, seems fairly reflective.

Yes, less than 0.9 every 15 minutes. Both my sensors have certainly been outside of this range and still reporting a horizontal arrow.

Smidge

 

[tim2000s]

I can kind of understand why this reading did what it did. The sensor is trying to adjust to a delayed interstatial fluid reading by using an algorithm to predict the path of glucose rise/drop. When you ate dinner you got a spike that went dramatically up and sat at about 9mmol/l. The Libre noticed that your blood sugar spiked and attempted to predict that you would spike much higher, you didn't so it settled back into your correct reading of 8.9 after recording two readings within .5mmol/l of each other (as in, the spike wasn't going as high as predicted).

The issue is that the scans leading into this set of readings don't really tally up with that hypothesis and neither the blood tests nor the rate arrows would suggest a sudden spike in the values as was diagnosed.

My understanding was that it is reporting on actual interstitial glucose readings and providing a bg equivalent rather than using an algorithm to determine what the blood glucose level might be at a period of between 10 and 20 mins in advance of the current interstitial reading. Can anyone clarify what it is actually doing?

 

[smidge]

@smidge




I knew there were some advantages to using mg/dl, much easier to get your head round .
From my manual.
Vertical up arrow - BG rising more than 2mg/dl per minute
Diagonal up arrow - BG rising between 1 and 2 mg/dl per minute
Horizontal arrow - BG changing less than 1mg/ d/l minute
Diagonal down arrow - BG falling between 1md 2mg.dl per minute
Vertical down arrow - BG falling more than 2mg/dl per minute

Do you actual contact Abbott UK or the place in France that sent it? (someone back earlier mentioned that the number they had was a French one) I looked the company that sent it up and found it's part of a huge operation.
AS healthcare (who the meter was sent from) is part of Arvato who run distribution and payment centres, if I read the jargon correctly (not my sort of language) they also seem to supply multi lingual call centre support . I wonder if it is this company rather than Abbott itself that are dealing with all these enquiries.
(hence muddling units 0.1mmol/l /1mgdl?)
http://www.arvato-healthcare.de/en/competences/crm-customer-content-services.html
http://www.arvatohightech.com/en/services-solutions/aftermarket-services/technical-support.html[/QUOTE]

I thought it was Abbotts UK, but now I'm not sure. I just use the 0300 number that's on their website. It's a bit worrying to mix up the units though. Mind you, I guess f I'd read the manual sooner I could have corrected him!

Smidge

 

[smidge]

Well, it's just like buses here today - 5 years with no clue what my BG was doing and soon I'll know it in minute detail! I've just come back from the hospital having had a sensor fitted for the week and it also happens to be the Libre sensor changeover day.

The hospital sensor is on my abdomen. It didn't hurt at all going on although I was terrified. The sensor plus the sticky things holding it in place take up half my abdomen and I'm not allowed to inject within 8cms of it - not really sure how that's going to work!

I've put my 3rd Libre sensor on and that didn't hurt either. I won't activate it for another hour or so as the 2nd one is still active at the moment. So, three sensors at the moment. Mad.

Still, next week, I should have some good data to share of the accuracy or otherwise of the Libre!

Smidge

 

[tim2000s]

Looking forward to that Smidge. Especially given that the CGM you are wearing for the week is testing in the same manner as the Libre! Do you have a handset or is it one of those that you don't see until it is plugged in and the data taken off?

 

[robert72]

Well, it's just like buses here today - 5 years with no clue what my BG was doing and soon I'll know it in minute detail! I've just come back from the hospital having had a sensor fitted for the week and it also happens to be the Libre sensor changeover day.

The hospital sensor is on my abdomen. It didn't hurt at all going on although I was terrified. The sensor plus the sticky things holding it in place take up half my abdomen and I'm not allowed to inject within 8cms of it - not really sure how that's going to work!

I've put my 3rd Libre sensor on and that didn't hurt either. I won't activate it for another hour or so as the 2nd one is still active at the moment. So, three sensors at the moment. Mad.

Still, next week, I should have some good data to share of the accuracy or otherwise of the Libre!

Smidge

But do we know how accurate the hospital-fitted sensor is

 

[smidge]

Unfortunately there's no handset so I'll have wait until next Monday when it gets plugged in and the data is downloaded. I have to BG test 4 times a day as well, so it should make a pretty comprehensive comparison between IF and BG as well as between the Libra and the Medtronic CGM.

Smidge