Had my first appointment with the Diabetic Dietician today!

[wiflib]

.......with an inch or two of butter, a bag of cheese and onion crisps squashed in the middle and a large bowl of Heinz tomato soup.

wiflib

 

[sugarless sue]

.......with an inch or two of butter, a bag of cheese and onion crisps squashed in the middle and a large bowl of Heinz tomato soup.

wiflib

You are a cruel,cruel woman!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:

 

[Jem]

I'm with you on the soup and butter but can I go for Chilli McCoys ridged originals ... hmmmmmm

 

[ally5555]

?

 

[ally5555]

oh dear i am going to be even busier with al these food diaries to analyse. Give me a few days of to a course on wed - guess what diabetes and exrecise!

 

[Trinkwasser]

What I'd REALLY like to see is someone come onto a forum or newsgroup and say

"I followed what the dietician told me and my numbers improved, I lost weight and my lipids normalised"

Well I have seen that happen, but it all cases it was a dietician who recommended a low carb diet. Not the "official" low fat high carb diet.

That would almost be me be me then Trink, my Dietitian was in agreement with my carb reduction, and intoduced more dairy fats into my diet. As you know from reading my post weight reduction is not an option for me, but the extra fats I am now eating have only stabilised my weight, I have not piled on the pounds. I think ditching the carbs in favour of a low carb higher fat diet would benefit those with a weight problems.

My BG levels are now in the low 5s as opposed to the high 6s on previous diet, and I found it easy to adapt to the changes. Sorry can't comment on my lipids but hope to soon blood tests being done Friday.

Regards Graham.

Sensible dietician/dietitian!

I predict your trigs will be spectacularly low, your HDL will be well high but your LDL may be a bit iffy.

Here were mine on my original diet - meals centred around Healthy Whole Grains with many veggies and mostly beneficial fats

HDL 0.63 LDL 4.22 trigs 4.29

At this point I was sent to an NHS dietician to reduce what my GP called "weird" lipids. The D word was never mentioned since I'd previously been told I was "not diabetic" and presumably he'd never heard of "diabetic dyslipidemia"

She was a typical pusher of the "Heart Healthy" diet, and concentrated purely on restricting my fat intake and replacing them with carbs.

HDL 0.66 LDL 5.16 trigs 3.70

At which I was told that I was "failing to comply" with the diet and she started eliminating even more fats (eg. avocados and nuts) and replacing them with even more carbs.

It was only then that I actually started to put on weight and became too knackered to do anything much.

Now fast forward to today

HDL 1.40 LDL 2.40 trigs 0.70

purely through controlling the carbs and controlling the BG

http://www.alt-support-diabetes.org/NewlyDiagnosed.htm

The most interesting bit was, I rediscovered the joys of eating beef since the local stuff is properly produced and properly hung and was about as different from the rejects from the shoe factory we used to have to put up with. I also said ******** to not eating the fat off my lamb chops, let alone the streaky bacon, in other words I stopped being paranoid about saturated fat and this had the result of turning my LDL down and my HDL UP by about the same amount.

I learned a lot especially about micronutrients from this guy

http://www.phlaunt.com/quentin/

and his posts on alt.support.diabetes

basically I returned to my previous diet but without all the excess carbs, lots of veg and salad, lots of fish, lots of real meat, few processed foods, just exactly what I used to eat minus the Healthy brown rice, muesli, wholemeal bread etc. etc.

It'll be interesting to see how your lipids compare.

 

[Trinkwasser]

I am not sure where people get the idea that dietitians promote a low fat diet

Probably from the fact that (both here and in the US) they promote a low fat diet.

The starting point was always the "Heart Healthy" 60% carbs diet, which curiously seems to have been temporally aligned with the major increases in diabetes obesity and cardiovascular disease a la Taubes.

It IS interesting to see that both sides of the Herring Pond a small and increasing number of dieticians are moving away from this.

Nevertheless it's still the Official Line. And will remain so for many years.

As someone pointed out, the average GP does maybe 15 minutes on diabetes (principally Type 1) and this may have been 50 years ago. Should they choose to keep up with modern research that's entirely up to them.

Likewise for dieticians. I'm sure if you started preaching modern dietary theory you would be disciplined. In another generation or two probably the modern information on leptin ghrelin etc. will have become mainstream, by which time many more legs and lives will have gone missing.

 

[Trinkwasser]

Sofaraway,you can counteract your carbs with insulin.Most type two's who are not on insulin have to be more careful with their carb intake.

Plus MODY is not usually associated with diabetic dyslipidemia.

 

[Trinkwasser]

Low carbing works because it is really a low calorie diet

Ally, that is a ridiculous comment, quite frankly.

Well to be pedantic that IS partly true. Without the high carb load producing insulin peaks (or requiring the shooting of massive doses to cover it) the knawing carb craving HUNGER is reduced (leptin?) with the result you don't feel the need to eat so much.

That's true in the presence of insulin resistance anyway, one of the key reasons Type 2s do so much better on low carb than low fat diets.

 

[wiflib]

Hi Ally.
I've tried to access that but I can't find it.
Can you give me the correct addy please?

wiflib

 

[ally5555]

its been posted on here before runsweet.com

 

[Jem]

Ally - the reason many people on here are frustrated with dietetics units is that the advice we've received from them has made us worse. And being diabetic is not fun or easy so having it made worse is not something we really need ... on top of the condition itself. I don't think you need to take it too personally ... if you can accept that many people on this forum have had their lives and health VASTLY improved by the advice received on low-carbing found here then I think we have a halfway house.

Imagine it this way (just an imaginary scenario): let's say you've just found a cure for some horrid disease you've contracted and nobody in the ministry of diseases will accept it's a cure, let alone admit it's helped you personally, not only that, but they go around telling everyone with the same horrid disease to do the opposite of the cure - advising them in a way you KNOW will make them fall foul of the horrid disease sooner and more painfully - then you too would be angry with anyone giving that advice, or anyone connected with the office of those people giving the advice.

I'm not having a go at you: I'm trying to give you some little understanding of why so many people are riled at dietitians in general, regardless of whether you promote marginally less carbs than the standard.

6 years ago my boss decided to go Atkins and I looked into the diet and blatantly refused to believe it was healthy - it went totally against everything I'd learned in the last 20+ years of serial dieting - I simply couldn't understand it.

2.5 months ago my life changed dramatically and I cannot even begin to explain how much BETTER I feel now for the new low carb eating plan (which I have for the rest of my life and having accepted that, can sleep at night knowing it's not just doable, but given me a new lease of life).

I suppose it's like finding god or something - you really only truly understand when you face it yourself.

Like I said, I'm not having a go, just trying to better impart some of thr many frustrations many of us feel - and of course there ARE diabetics who live on regular high and medium carb diets and they obviously feel well - great - I'm happy for them (no sarcasm intended) but if the ministry of writing ****** booklets for people life-threatening illnesses could just take one tiny half a page and say that LOTS of people have achieved better control and results in the non-diabetic range BY REDUCING CARBOHYDRATES in their diets then I think there would be a round of applause from here!

Also, I don't think this forum is "in trouble" - I hope to god it isn't: because this place is the ONLY reason I am on the road to better diabetic health.

All the best, J.x

 

[ally5555]

well

 

[Dennis]

well after to listening to Ian gallen today - wow! he knows his stuff a a real expert.

Hi Ally,
Dr Gallen is an endocrinologist who specialises in working with diabetic sportspeople to maximise their performance (most famously Sir Steve Redgrave), so I am not surprised that you were impressed, knowing your own interest in sports diatetics.

But that doesn't change Graham's well made point that the dietary requirements of an olympic athlete, whether diabetic or not, have little in common with the needs of Joe Public.

 

[Jem]

Thanks Robski, I know I have a big mouth (no comments please!) and I often worry if when I generalise (the grand WE) I'm saying things that in fact, other people DON'T agree with - so it's greatly heartening to know that it reflects even some of what you guys are thinking. THANKS!

 

[phoenix]

We are all different with different needs

Warning dietary content on http://www.runsweet.com is based on high carb diet for athletes and has no relevance for 99% of forum members

We are all different as is so often said both in our varieties of diabetes and our methods of control.
I for one am a very ordinary person who happens to have diabetes and also takes part in sport at a low level. I too am Joe Public and I for one have found Ian Gallens site extremely useful.

 

[Katharine]

I think there would be a lot less hostility towards you Ally if you actually gave constructive advice to people. Many diabetics have not had a postive relationship with NHS dieticians, myself included. A few have had their problems listened to and appropriately addressed and I hope the situation will continue to improve.

I have yet to see a post from you which is written with the aim of helping someone get better control of their diabetes or improve their nutritional state. So far I have simply seen one post after another of the "Do not try this at home variety." None of your negative comments regarding low carbing have been substantiated by scientific evidence. I am patiently waiting for your scientifically based expose of the errors of Dr Bernstein's method and Gary Taubes collection of evidence. All we have got so far is personal opinion.

 

[IanD]

Ally- have you looked at the Sweet Magazine ?

Fergus' story in #3 was followed up by mine (as a letter) in #4. Both had a warning not to make changes in our diet without consulting GP or diabetes care team.

But there was no caveat on the high carb recipes. (33.5 g for mince pies & 84 g for iced Christmas cake & turkey & mushroom bolognese 76 g.)

 

[ally5555]

robski - i am not trying to antagonise anyone just make them think.

Posting on here does give me some food for thought but low carbing is not the route for everyone and you must accept that too.

I think it is true to say that the low carbers will not accept this - in fact havent a few been ticked off recently for claiming this is a low carb site. I would like to see a more balanced approach - you may not believe that people can eat carbs - that is indeed your choice. All i am saying is do it safely.

 

[IanD]

Ally - you can trust me to be honest - you don't need to wait to get Sweet to comment on their lack of warnings about their high carb recipes. Their recipes seem to be recipes for disaster.

Bear in mind Sweet is a new magazine specially for diabetics.

Or do you think 33.5 g carb mince pie is OK for a diabetic, or 76 g for the bolognese?