I'm back looking for help again!

[Helping_hand_]

Hi everyone,
Some people will remember me, I posted a lot in May about my dad's type 2 diabetes. I was trying to get my dad's blood sugar levels under control. When he was referred to the diabetic nurse he chose to follow the NHS guidelines for diet. The medication seems to work and he was averaging 6. We seems to be making progress, the gave him the all clear.
However he insisted the doctor give him stronger painkillers for nerve pain, he was on co codamol. They gave him Tramadol and the problems started. The main side effect was he couldn't urinate, this continued for a few days. He didn't tell the doctor this but asked for different nerve painkillers, they gave him gabapentin which had the opposite effect and he became incontinent.
This continued for a week and he refuses to contact the doctor, I phoned and arranged a home visit and he was taken into hospital. They think he has a damaged bladder and an infection, and will have to wear a catheter. The metformin isn't working and they suggested injecting insult but he told them he won't inject himself.
Does anyone know if there is an alternative?

 

[azure]

Tagging some Type 2s for you

@Brunneria @andcol @Pipp @Enclave

 

[ickihun]

The alternative to injecting insulin as a type2 who produces enough of their own is a diet which conforms with no high spikes on his meter and keeping his bgs steadily under 7.8mmol/l so no more complications or nerve damage to get worse.
If he was my dad I'd be showing him how to shop and eat to stay healthy but you know the old saying about leading a horse to water?
Insulin may be his only saving grace if he wont listen to good advice?

I'm sure others will be along to support you and help you in accepting your father has to want to change.

Out of experience insulin can be used in the interim of periods of 'burnout' to help patients turn things around. Maybe it would give him the incentive to eat lower carbs if he was told insulin injections or rot away slowly?
He may be scared?

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi everyone,
Some people will remember me, I posted a lot in May about my dad's type 2 diabetes. I was trying to get my dad's blood sugar levels under control. When he was referred to the diabetic nurse he chose to follow the NHS guidelines for diet. The medication seems to work and he was averaging 6. We seems to be making progress, the gave him the all clear.
However he insisted the doctor give him stronger painkillers for nerve pain, he was on co codamol. They gave him Tramadol and the problems started. The main side effect was he couldn't urinate, this continued for a few days. He didn't tell the doctor this but asked for different nerve painkillers, they gave him gabapentin which had the opposite effect and he became incontinent.
This continued for a week and he refuses to contact the doctor, I phoned and arranged a home visit and he was taken into hospital. They think he has a damaged bladder and an infection, and will have to wear a catheter. The metformin isn't working and they suggested injecting insult but he told them he won't inject himself.
Does anyone know if there is an alternative?

Oh dear. I'm sorry your Dad is having problems at the moment.

If your Dad has an infection, that may well be impact how his numbers are running. Many people report this, to a greater or lesser extent.

It would probably be worthwhile asking if the medics are talking about insulin whilst he is in hospital, or for the foreseeable future. In hospital the medics will sometimes divert to insuline in order to get a hold of the blood numbers quickly.

I know I had a T2 relative in hospital recently, who was put on insulin pretty much as he arrived there. I was quite shocked, as my understanding was that he had previously been on meds, but they were some way off running out of options for oral meds.

If it is any consolation, my relative stayed on insulin until shortly before going home. He too really didn't fancy the idea of injecting, but he's now back on the meds he was on before, albeit at a one step up higher dose.

Fingers crossed for your Dad.

 

[Pipp]

Hi @Helping_hand_ (and thank you @azure for tagging me)
I am sorry you are so worried about your dad, @Helping_hand_ . I am afraid I have no advice to offer regarding insulin alternatives, though, as I have no experience of medication for T2, other than having initially been on Metformin.

Like DCUKMod, I have known of people needing insulin whilst in hospital to stabilise blood glucose levels, who were later discharged with oral meds and no insulin. However, as I was a patient in the hospital ward at the same time, and not very well, I possibly misunderstood that.

I can only wish you and your dad well, and hope someone else will read your post and have more suitable advice than I am able to give.

 

[Helping_hand_]

The alternative to injecting insulin as a type2 who produces enough of their own is a diet which conforms with no high spikes on his meter and keeping his bgs steadily under 7.8mmol/l so no more complications or nerve damage to get worse.
If he was my dad I'd be showing him how to shop and eat to stay healthy but you know the old saying about leading a horse to water?
Insulin may be his only saving grace if he wont listen to good advice?

I'm sure others will be along to support you and help you in accepting your father has to want to change.

Out of experience insulin can be used in the interim of periods of 'burnout' to help patients turn things around. Maybe it would give him the incentive to eat lower carbs if he was told insulin injections or rot away slowly?
He may be scared?

Thank you for your post. I have tried to get him to make better choices, but the diabetic nurse in the hospital told me my father is refusing to take responsibility for his diabetes. They have asked him repeatly to drink water and he refuses, demanding diet drinks. I know they are sugar free but I sure the chemicals aren't good for the body if he is supposed to be clearing out toxins.

 

[Helping_hand_]

Oh dear. I'm sorry your Dad is having problems at the moment.

If your Dad has an infection, that may well be impact how his numbers are running. Many people report this, to a greater or lesser extent.

It would probably be worthwhile asking if the medics are talking about insulin whilst he is in hospital, or for the foreseeable future. In hospital the medics will sometimes divert to insuline in order to get a hold of the blood numbers quickly.

I know I had a T2 relative in hospital recently, who was put on insulin pretty much as he arrived there. I was quite shocked, as my understanding was that he had previously been on meds, but they were some way off running out of options for oral meds.

If it is any consolation, my relative stayed on insulin until shortly before going home. He too really didn't fancy the idea of injecting, but he's now back on the meds he was on before, albeit at a one step up higher dose.

Fingers crossed for your Dad.

Thank you for your reply. He is on insulin in the hospital but also suggested he might need it at home as he isn't managing his diabetes. It has been unstable since he was diagnosed 12 years ago but because continued to drink large amounts of alcohol and eat sugary foods. I think this is the last option available.

 

[ickihun]

Thank you for your post. I have tried to get him to make better choices, but the diabetic nurse in the hospital told me my father is refusing to take responsibility for his diabetes. They have asked him repeatly to drink water and he refuses, demanding diet drinks. I know they are sugar free but I sure the chemicals aren't good for the body if he is supposed to be clearing out toxins.

I hate water too. So use diet lemonade. Diabetic dietician suggested no added sugar juices as I dont eat fruit. I force myself to drink water with tablets. So many tablets can give me over half pint of water over an hour period. Maybe he needs plenty of water for any meds too? Hint hint?

By you are going to have to be sneeky. Like having a naughty toddler eh?
The things we have to do to tick things along.
If your happy to do it I think you can get him turned around but it will be slow.
Wait til you tell him he's been having more water and low carb when he's well and been eating it without knowing.
Stubborn children. Oops did I say that!
You will outwit his stubborness. We always do, in the end.
After a while of him feeling better he can do these things himself?

 

[DCUKMod]

Thank you for your reply. He is on insulin in the hospital but also suggested he might need it at home as he isn't managing his diabetes. It has been unstable since he was diagnosed 12 years ago but because continued to drink large amounts of alcohol and eat sugary foods. I think this is the last option available.

Oh dear. It won't help if he isn't interested in making changes to his way of living. What may help though is when he starts to feel better. He may then think it worth it to have a better quality of life.

Regarding the diet drinks, and his refusal to drink water; whilst it's a shame he can't view water in the same way he might view an item of medication, if he is willing to drink diet drinks, then at least he'd be having the fluid through his system to flush out those toxins. Perhaps it's a compromise between what he wants and the ideal scenario?

It must be very difficult for you watching all of this, but the fact of the matter is, your Dad is a grown adult, capable of making decisions for himself.

I do know that as a family, we are all strong minded and even stronger willed individuals, and there have been a number of times when I (and I'm sure others too) have had to hold my tongue when family members haven't made the same decisions we might have, but there is a point where one can have to ask oneself whether we'll work on finding a compromise, versus risk really breaching the relationship we have with that other person.

It's undoubtedly a hard and troubling time for you.

 

[letstalk1]

I sure hope he can feel better soon.

 

[hca]

Thank you for your reply. He is on insulin in the hospital but also suggested he might need it at home as he isn't managing his diabetes. It has been unstable since he was diagnosed 12 years ago but because continued to drink large amounts of alcohol and eat sugary foods. I think this is the last option available.

Hello, your dad sounds just like my father in law, he has been type 2 for ever and his bg levels are out of control, he is constantly c/ o feeling unwell, but sits eating cake and biscuits as well as his weetabix, toast and banana for breakfast. Personally I feel he likes all the drama etc etc. I have tried to encourage a Lchf diet to no avail. Unfortunately like your dad he is an adult and makes his own choices, we can only offer suggestions and encouragement. Xx

 

[Helping_hand_]

Hello, your dad sounds just like my father in law, he has been type 2 for ever and his bg levels are out of control, he is constantly c/ o feeling unwell, but sits eating cake and biscuits as well as his weetabix, toast and banana for breakfast. Personally I feel he likes all the drama etc etc. I have tried to encourage a Lchf diet to no avail. Unfortunately like your dad he is an adult and makes his own choices, we can only offer suggestions and encouragement. Xx

I am now at a complete loss, it has been 4 months and we are back to square on again. Any suggestions I make it's either 'I can't or I don't like...'.
I am dreading going to the hospital today because I know when he gets home he will make no effort to help himself.

 

[Brunneria]

I'm sorry.

I think there is a lot going on in situations like this, and a lot of those things go far, far beyond having diabetes.

My own father is type 2 and I have tried various approaches. At various times I have been patient, helpful, supportive, impatient, advisory, bought him a meter and books, let him do his own thing, spoken to my mother and sister... we had one big blow up argument, which achieved nothing but distance for several months.

He has always been a reader and learner (I get that from him!) but now he doesn't want to introduces any changes, and if he doesn't use his meter he doesn't see the damage, so he can pretend it isn't happening.

I only see them every couple of months, and I have noticed that whatever new steps have been introduced by one visit have always reset by my next visit (testing, reduced portions, etc). Change is easy when we are young(er). It becomes much harder the older we get, and habits become set in stone.

4 months ago when I went to visit, my Mum was very worried. Dad had taken a neighbours dog for a walk after a high carb lunch. Got lost. Missing for hours.

Much worry and agreement that high carb => brainfog and memory issues. So changes were made, he agreed to carry a mobile. You can imagine it all, can't you?

Then 2 months ago I visited again. The carb lunches were back. The mobile was uncharged. And Dad set off walking as always.

Of course I queried it - to their surprise - and they both denied that he had ever got lost. I still don't know whether it was collective denial or they had genuinely forgotten. They acted like I was making the whole thing up. And they had just reverted to the habitual foods, portions, lifestyle and routines they have been enjoying for their 60 year marriage.

I just have to take a step back. Nothing else I can do. And what I mustn't do is turn into an over-fussing, over-caring, over-managing daughter, because that is going to drive a wedge between us faster than anything else.

 

[dogslife]

Thank you for your post. I have tried to get him to make better choices, but the diabetic nurse in the hospital told me my father is refusing to take responsibility for his diabetes. They have asked him repeatly to drink water and he refuses, demanding diet drinks. I know they are sugar free but I sure the chemicals aren't good for the body if he is supposed to be clearing out toxins.

Hi Helping-hand. Have you tried getting him to drink sparkling flavoured water? There are some interesting flavours around and at least they don't have the chemicals you are concerned about.

 

[hca]

I am now at a complete loss, it has been 4 months and we are back to square on again. Any suggestions I make it's either 'I can't or I don't like...'.
I am dreading going to the hospital today because I know when he gets home he will make no effort to help himself.

Please don't worry, just go to the hospital and be the loving, caring daughter that you are, change takes time. X

 

[Helping_hand_]

I'm sorry.

I think there is a lot going on in situations like this, and a lot of those things go far, far beyond having diabetes.

My own father is type 2 and I have tried various approaches. At various times I have been patient, helpful, supportive, impatient, advisory, bought him a meter and books, let him do his own thing, spoken to my mother and sister... we had one big blow up argument, which achieved nothing but distance for several months.

He has always been a reader and learner (I get that from him!) but now he doesn't want to introduces any changes, and if he doesn't use his meter he doesn't see the damage, so he can pretend it isn't happening.

I only see them every couple of months, and I have noticed that whatever new steps have been introduced by one visit have always reset by my next visit (testing, reduced portions, etc). Change is easy when we are young(er). It becomes much harder the older we get, and habits become set in stone.

4 months ago when I went to visit, my Mum was very worried. Dad had taken a neighbours dog for a walk after a high carb lunch. Got lost. Missing for hours.

Much worry and agreement that high carb => brainfog and memory issues. So changes were made, he agreed to carry a mobile. You can imagine it all, can't you?

Then 2 months ago I visited again. The carb lunches were back. The mobile was uncharged. And Dad set off walking as always.

Of course I queried it - to their surprise - and they both denied that he had ever got lost. I still don't know whether it was collective denial or they had genuinely forgotten. They acted like I was making the whole thing up. And they had just reverted to the habitual foods, portions, lifestyle and routines they have been enjoying for their 60 year marriage.

I just have to take a step back. Nothing else I can do. And what I mustn't do is turn into an over-fussing, over-caring, over-managing daughter, because that is going to drive a wedge between us faster than anything else.

Thank you for sharing your experience. It sounds very similar. My Dad was a heavy drinker and I tried for years to get him to deal with his problem. He would stop for a few weeks after falling splitting his head open, going to hospital, signing himself out, and then the cycle would start all over again. He would swear he had stopped, my mum and I believed him until it happened again, and again.

Even after being told he had nerve damage he continued to drink and now the damage has effected his bladder. He has never taken responsibility for his health and I am foolish to think he will change now. I do feel sorry for my mother who is 84 and has never given up trying to help him, even after being verbally abused, lied to, and manipulated for 46 years.

I have decided I will do all I can to support her because as a career I think she needs my empathy more. I have made the decision to step back and let my father do as he chooses, because that what he has always done. He is a narcissist and now I release my constantly trying to 'fix' him is just enabling his behaviour.

He is adult and can make his own decisions, as am I and I chose to stop making myself ill with stress and worry.