levels rising but not eating any carbs

[kellyb8511]

hi im slightly confused and hope you all can help

I started a no carb diet just over a week ago, the first few days where fantastic I had 15 units of levimir (a drop of approx. 30 units)
I also drop my nova rapid from about 10 units each meal to approx. 2 units each meal but after 2 days I didn't even need the nova rapid as I literally did not eat any carbs

anyway past couple of days I have noticed every time I have tested my blood my sugar levels have risen considerable
for example this morning I have tested and it was 17.9! I had for my tea 2 egg omelette with fried chicken breast and onion and nothing else - I had a glass of water and later on I had a coffee with no sugar

i had for my dinner half a tuna salad which was made up of lettuce cucumber spring onion and walnuts - no dressing just a little bit of salt and my levels shot up to 15.5

i am really confused and just don't have a clue what insulin i should be injecting as by going from DAFNE it is not working out at 1 unit per 10 grams of carbs because i am having approx. 4-5 grams of carbs each meal

they only thing i have started is the odd 20 minute workout and walking more often but i would hardly call it committed at the moment and it isn't every day ?????????????????????

 

[Diakat]

Gluconeogenesis?

 

[Books1]

If I have v low carb meals I have to count the protein in the meal and inject for 1/2 the protein as if it was carbs.

F

 

[catapillar]

1) low carb diets cause physiological insulin resistance. So if pre-low carb you were on a 1:10 insulin to carb ratio, and so if you were eating only 5g of carbs half a unit would have covered it, because of the low carb diet your I:C ratio may have changed and you may need more insulin to deal with the same amount of carbs.

2) your body wants to get glucose from somewhere. If it can't do that the easy way (via carbs) it will do it the hard way by turning protein eaten into glucose in a process called gluconogenesis, so if you are on a low carb diet you need to consider bolusing for protein. The conservative advice on how to do this is to discount the first 30g of protein, then divide by two and apply your insulin to carb ratio to the number. So if you're eating a meal with 80g of protein discount the first 30g (=50) divide by two (25g) so bolus for 25g of carbs.

Gluconogenisis is a process, it takes effort for the body to do it. It also takes practice for the body to do it. In the first couple of days of low carbing it might not have gone to the effort, hoping that there will be carbs in the next meal. But now your body has realised the carbs aren't coming then it's working on turning the protein eaten into glucose.

I had 15 units of levimir (a drop of approx. 30 units)

So in under a week you have dropped your levemir from 45 units to 15? The job of basal is to keep blood sugar steady when not eating or bolusing. So a change in diet shouldn't really have such a dramatic impact on basal doses because it shouldn't be dealing with food eaten. Have you done any basal testing to see if you are on the right basal dose? This page sets out how to basal test - https://mysugr.com/basal-rate-testing/

 

[EllieM]

So what is the benefit for T1s who go ultra low carb? We still need insulin, but much less?

 

[JoeT1]

So what is the benefit for T1s who go ultra low carb? We still need insulin, but much less?

I think in my opinion, the lower the carb intake, the lower amount of insulin that you need and therefore the less chance of big mistakes leading to hypos. I find that I can correct and treat a potential low a lot easier when I know I don't have a huge amount of insulin on board, may only take 5g of carbs to bring me to a steady level before a proper hypo kicks in.

Currently i'm not going above 50g for a day and often times much less. An example would be Breakfast 0g carbs, Lunch 18g carbs and dinner 15g carbs. I'd like to be able to eat a bit more than that and will in time, but for now, I seem to be getting results with regards to my control so am definitely an advocate for it in this regard.

 

[kellyb8511]

thanks for the responses, i will have a look in to treating my protein intake with insulin but that was the idea of going on this diet, as i don't want much insulin as it causes me to gain rapid weight
maybe this diet isn't as suitable for type 1s as generally thought as so far my sugars are probably higher then they have been in a very very long time :-(

thanks again for replies

 

[kellyb8511]

also i have to point out, i have just remembered yesterday i had 2 doses of levimir 10 in morning and 20 last night as my sugars where very high so that is only a drop in 10 units ish
and i literally had next to no carbs all day :-(

 

[Deleted Account]

i don't want much insulin as it causes me to gain rapid weight

My understanding is that insulin makes you gain weight IF you suffer from insulin resistance.
Having type 1, this is unlikely.

Sure, not taking insulin will cause you to lose weight but this is because you body is having to break down your fat/muscles to get energy. This results in ketones which are a bad thing.

As far as I know (which is limited, I confess), the techniques for losing weight with type 1 are the same as losing weight without diabetes (diet and exercise) but you still take insulin.

 

[becca59]

also i have to point out, i have just remembered yesterday i had 2 doses of levimir 10 in morning and 20 last night as my sugars where very high so that is only a drop in 10 units ish
and i literally had next to no carbs all day :-(

I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but if your basal dose was correct before going low carb it should remain the same after. The only thing to change should be the bolus.

 

[kellyb8511]

yes i am type 1 with insulin resistance, my doctors are regularly baffled by me! and unfortunately i went 3 years with very little insulin and had a hba1c of 14% to which my doctor came and did a house call as it was the highest he had ever seen, all to be thin. so this time i am doing things correctly i have gone from 7stone 13 to 10 stone 9 in approx. 6 weeks so not only the rapid weight gain but i feel and look bloody awful
like i said the first week my sugars where perfect but into my 2nd week is a complete different matter

i lost 7lbs in first week and so far this week even tho i have eaten less and absolute no carbs i have gained 2lbs so i feel this diet i may have to do on a weekly basis

 

[becca59]

yes i am type 1 with insulin resistance, my doctors are regularly baffled by me! and unfortunately i went 3 years with very little insulin and had a hba1c of 14% to which my doctor came and did a house call as it was the highest he had ever seen, all to be thin. so this time i am doing things correctly i have gone from 7stone 13 to 10 stone 9 in approx. 6 weeks so not only the rapid weight gain but i feel and look bloody awful
like i said the first week my sugars where perfect but into my 2nd week is a complete different matter

i lost 7lbs in first week and so far this week even tho i have eaten less and absolute no carbs i have gained 2lbs so i feel this diet i may have to do on a weekly basis

Sounds an annoyingly complex situation!

 

[Diakat]

How tall are you? Are you at a healthy weight now? You may have been underweight before?

 

[Resurgam]

I can't quite understand your carb counting - you say zero and then you have carbs in the foods you eat - not a lot, but they are there - and are you eating enough fat to supply your energy requirements?
I know it is a concern as on low carb you will be using ketones for energy and it is not well understood that that means you are breaking down fat - which is what you want for weightloss, but you should be keeping your blood glucose down.
As a type two on no medication the ways of basal and bolus management are beyond me, but after some 40 years eating low carb I seem to have got that sorted.

 

[Kristin251]

Just protein really spikes me. I need a few carbs like a wedge of avocado and additional fat. Low fat and low carbs would send me.

I do bolus for half my protein but still take way less insulin than if I had carbs with it.

I need 80% fat with meals and snacks to stay steady. It’s not copious amounts. Mayo on protein, butter, avocado, cheeses nuts.

 

[SueJB]

yes i am type 1 with insulin resistance, my doctors are regularly baffled by me! and unfortunately i went 3 years with very little insulin and had a hba1c of 14% to which my doctor came and did a house call as it was the highest he had ever seen, all to be thin. so this time i am doing things correctly i have gone from 7stone 13 to 10 stone 9 in approx. 6 weeks so not only the rapid weight gain but i feel and look bloody awful
like i said the first week my sugars where perfect but into my 2nd week is a complete different matter

i lost 7lbs in first week and so far this week even tho i have eaten less and absolute no carbs i have gained 2lbs so i feel this diet i may have to do on a weekly basis

Hi, I'm in a similar situation type 1 but not sure if I'm insulin resistant. My weight gain has been slower than yours 1st in 6 months. I'm a little short **** so for me the weight gain is awful too.

 

[kellyb8511]

How tall are you? Are you at a healthy weight now? You may have been underweight before?

Hi thanks for the reply
I am 5, 7 and last year I dropped to 7 stone 13lbs and now I am 10 st 6 so a massive increase which my body is struggling with

 

[kellyb8511]

I can't quite understand your carb counting - you say zero and then you have carbs in the foods you eat - not a lot, but they are there - and are you eating enough fat to supply your energy requirements?
I know it is a concern as on low carb you will be using ketones for energy and it is not well understood that that means you are breaking down fat - which is what you want for weightloss, but you should be keeping your blood glucose down.
As a type two on no medication the ways of basal and bolus management are beyond me, but after some 40 years eating low carb I seem to have got that sorted.

Hi again thanks for the response

I am have next to nothing carb wise but I have been having atleast 2 units of insulin as working out exactly what I have eaten and going by my usual ratio carb/insulin doses I have actually been having more then enough but yet my insulin is either not effecting me or there is something strange going on

for example last night I decided to have my 25 units of levimir and had grilled chicken and mushrooms I had 3 units of insulin so that should in fact cover 30g of carbs I woke up and just tested and my sugar levels are 20.9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I need to go back to eating junk food atleast I know where I stand with that

 

[kellyb8511]

Hi, I'm in a similar situation type 1 but not sure if I'm insulin resistant. My weight gain has been slower than yours 1st in 6 months. I'm a little short **** so for me the weight gain is awful too.

I weighed myself this morning and I have gained weight and up to 10st 7 so havnt lost anything - I think its due to the fact iv been having more insulin again :-( I feel like I could cry

 

[Rokaab]

Hi thanks for the reply
I am 5, 7 and last year I dropped to 7 stone 13lbs and now I am 10 st 6 so a massive increase which my body is struggling with

Well, I'm the same height and a while back was told that 10 stone to 10 and a half stone was a perfectly good weight to aim for for my height (I was told this when I'd been quite ill and ended up very underweight at 8 stone 2), so it could just be that you're at the right weight 7st 13 was definitely underweight..