Managing bGs

[Anonymous]

Thanks Gezza. That's a nifty little application too. I can't be giving up my curry and rice, have that later in the day anyway. Is the idea not to tax the pancreas whilst you are most insulin resistant? In the morning? Xx Skipped breakfast again (sorry) now wondering what to eat...


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How about a salad with meat or cheese? I wouldn't take the 'eat to your meter' to an extreme where you are waiting for hours for that good reading! The figures from MyFitnessPal are a bit odd ... e.g. sodium since I never have salt in spuds, pasta, rice, couscous etc.

Have set up a new post so as not to get confused with Southport GP's blog for low-carbers. Had breakfast 1.5 hours ago (2 x weetabix, banana and milk), walked the dog (1 mile), felt a hypo and 3.4 ..... oops again. Just eaten a wholewheat bread sarnie with loads of homemade mayo, lettuce, tomato and liver pate. Next report in 2 hours.....

Update after 2 hours ... 5.1.

Also tested after 1 hr 40 mins trying to 'fix' broken lancet pen and got 6.5. So down by 1.4 in 20 mins. Managed to push a lancet in without removing previous one and now the pen is 'b....r.d'!!! Grrrrr. :?

 

[LittleWolf]

Nom nom I really like lettuce..

I live at home and we eat like most working class families unfortunately. A whole bunch of carbs and some meat a couple times a week, not much in the way of fresh fruit or veg... It's expensive and spoils quicker than freezer food >_< I hate offending my dad when I cool separate meals or try to 'suggest' what we should get. He also becomes annoyed when I but my own groceries because he is the authoritarian and provider and thinks I'm being snobbish. That's the problem with not being officially diagnosed. If I'm not I am just being 'fussy' to him... His side of te family have always been of the 'do what you are told and eat what's on your plate' mentality. I am not really allowed out or to move out, although I attend university down here. It's stifling -_-

But god I LOVE cheese and this Little Wolf loves her meat. Maybe when my mother is back in the country I can talk to her about dietary changes for everyone because she also disapproves of how dad eats and what he prepares for my little brother.

Im also worried about him because he was curious one day and asked for a random glucose test and it was 8.3 after he'd had a biscuit or two. Ma has always tested under 5. Did diabetes just skip a generation or has my dad's genes got something to do with it?

I'm sure my ma will back me as she knows about my readings.

Well I had weetabix and a banana. (they were reduced to 30p for the bunch of like 10 dad bought them)

35 minutes (I felt a bit funny): 16.6

1h: 13.2

90 minutes: 7.8

2hrs: 8.2

I think I am going to Skype ma and tell her we need to make some changes. I need help negotiating with my dad. If I don't eat what he buys/cooks/suggests/he gets offended and defensive -_- He has control issues.




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[janeecee]

Good numbers, gezzathorpe. All that dog-walking seems to help.

Something weird happens to my numbers when I cut back on carbs. Initially the numbers are better, and then about a week later they jump up again. It's as if my carb metabolism gets a bit lazy because it's used doing less work. I'm not very active as I've explained elsewhere before (housebound with ME/CFS) so I don't need the calories, and to be honest a modest amount of food fills me up for hours. And I definitely don't want (or need) a high fat diet either. That's fine for people who can burn it off with exercise but I can't, and besides fatty/oily foods make me feel bilious for the rest of the day.

It's really tough to work out the carb/protein/fat balance for my particular needs—minimal activity levels etc—AND keep the numbers down to a sensible level. I've even wondered if slightly increasing my carbs would be a better strategy, after all, they are a lot lower than many low carbers but that's because I don't need the calories. I've read that ketosis can cause an increase in insulin resistance, so I'd rather avoid that. I've wondered whether that has actually happened, unintentionally.

It's really hard to know what to do for the best. There are so many diet cults out there, so much pseudoscience and people writing books and blogs (to promote their books) and presenting their opinion as scientific fact when it's really more of a personal narrative.




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[LittleWolf]

Ketosis can increase insulin resistance? Are you kidding? Why the hell are we supposed to do :'(

And now I am sure my BC pill has caused acid reflux. Every other day or so I get the timing wrong and wake up with the pain and throw up all morning then have horrible heartburn and diarrhea after. So got to cut out acidic foods... But I read acidic foods cut blood sugar? And fatty foods worsen diarrhea?

I'mgetting really miserable and confused now. I don't think I can do this on my own :'( I don't even have my mama. In the country anymore to talk to Sorry for derailing the thread. Fed up..


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[Anonymous]

Good numbers, gezzathorpe. All that dog-walking seems to help.

Something weird happens to my numbers when I cut back on carbs. Initially the numbers are better, and then about a week later they jump up again. It's as if my carb metabolism gets a bit lazy because it's used doing less work. I'm not very active as I've explained elsewhere before (housebound with ME/CFS) so I don't need the calories, and to be honest a modest amount of food fills me up for hours. And I definitely don't want (or need) a high fat diet either. That's fine for people who can burn it off with exercise but I can't, and besides fatty/oily foods make me feel bilious for the rest of the day.

It's really tough to work out the carb/protein/fat balance for my particular needs—minimal activity levels etc—AND keep the numbers down to a sensible level. I've even wondered if slightly increasing my carbs would be a better strategy, after all, they are a lot lower than many low carbers but that's because I don't need the calories. I've read that ketosis can cause an increase in insulin resistance, so I'd rather avoid that. I've wondered whether that has actually happened, unintentionally.

It's really hard to know what to do for the best. There are so many diet cults out there, so much pseudoscience and people writing books and blogs (to promote their books) and presenting their opinion as scientific fact when it's really more of a personal narrative.

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Many people on this site advocate regular self-monitoring for good reasons and I would not try to suggest that they shouldn't. However, one downside is that frequent readings can produce surprising and seemingly inexplicable variations which can cause people concern and anxiety, perhaps unnecessarily. I am usually an 'occasional' tester and recently had a 4-month break from testing. Would I have benefitted by testing myself every day during that 4 months? The answer may be 'yes' if my results had deteriorated. But, as it happens, nothing has changed for the worse in terms of my own tests and I 'appear' to be eating appropriately. Personally, I do not wish to 'live by my meter' as that, for me, defeats my objective of living with diabetes.

I had an 8.3 last night after 1/4 of a fish pie, comprised of mash topping, white and smoked fish, prawns, peas, cheese sauce, broccoli and fennel bulb. That surprised me given what I know about the usual effect of all these foods on my bGs both in combination and separately. So, I choose to let these odd episodes pass rather than continue to investigate every glitch. It's a bit like weighing oneself every day, or every other day which doesn't tell one very much about weight loss.

In the last few weeks I have had 5 out of 51 tests over 7.8 and still averaging around 5.9. So I'm not going to lose any sleep over this. Tomorrow is 'judgement day' when I get my comprehensive annual blood test results, including HbA1C, cholesterol etc. and they will tell me far more than my meter could. I may even have to 'eat humble pie' and have to take back everything I have being saying and doing!!

I like the term 'pseudoscience'. The internet has given the general public easy access to a whole raft of scientific studies, most of which have not been corroborated by others. The often long lists of references are not confirmation of the results of a study. They are simply scientific etiquette to acknowledge sources of information used in the study so that the originator doesn't claim all the work their own. Remember Darwin, for example, who dragged his feet for about 20 years due to lack of firm evidence, probably rightly so as he understood the need for evidence. He only then published under pressure because Wallace had come to similar conclusions from the other side of the world, and Darwin was ridiculed by many people as a result.

 

[charon]

I'm a frequent tester but don't worry about odd results - expect them and some might be down to the equipment.

Odd one last night.
First large meal since diagnosis (visiting friend) with Yorkshire puds roast potatoes... and followed by rhubarb pie.
Expected something bad but wanted to try.
Before was 5.0, 2 hours after was 5.4.
So had a couple of scones and jam - couple of hours later was 4.0!

Had a few glasses of red wine which would have helped but very odd.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm a frequent tester but don't worry about odd results - expect them and some might be down to the equipment.

Odd one last night.
First large meal since diagnosis (visiting friend) with Yorkshire puds roast potatoes... and followed by rhubarb pie.
Expected something bad but wanted to try.
Before was 5.0, 2 hours after was 5.4.
So had a couple of scones and jam - couple of hours later was 4.0!

Had a few glasses of red wine which would have helped but very odd.

Strange isn't it? After my 8.3 last night, I thought .. 'B.gg.r it' and had some white cholocate then went to bed.

 

[janeecee]

The odd glitch is one thing but it's changing patterns that I don't like. I cut the carbs and the readings are better for a week and then they jump up. Or they remain predictable for weeks (breakfast and lunch) and then the post prandials suddenly jump up, and then I see the same result the next day, and the next. Nothing has changed dietary-wise. There's no explanation. Is my system confused? I dunno.

Gezzathorpe, I take your point about excessive testing. I'm a newbie to all of this. I'm an undiagnosed pre-d with normal FBG and impaired glucose tolerance ie post prandials were in the 8s, 9s and 10s after my evening meal, so I'm taking action now. I'm physically inactive, housebound with ME/CFS which requires extensive periods of rest to get from one day to the next, I'm not overweight by any means and never have been. I have good BP and low cholesterol. No family history to my knowledge. I've always had a good diet, loads of fruit and veg, wholegrains, no sugar habit, rarely touch alcohol and I'd never go near a McDonalds or KFC. Junk food and fast food has never been my thing. My risk factors are inactivity and age. My only option to stave off the big D is diet....and that ain't working too great. Or rather, less well than I'd hoped.

I burn so few calories so my food intake is modest to begin with. My next option is what? Eat nothing? LOL.

Well, you can understand why this is so depressing.

LW, a lot of misinformation on low carbing veers into cult belief territory, not that I'm saying cutting carbs is rubbish—it's not. You just need to be wary of what is fact and what isn't. I'm cutting carbs because they spike my blood sugar but at this stage of non-diagnosis I wish to avoid ketosis. I can't say categorically that it increases insulin resistance because I'm wary of where the information came from.


Gezzathorpe, in the 20-odd years that I've had ME, I've come into contact with all the diets, all the dubious therapies, all the various pet theories, myths, beliefs, etc etc. I'm wary of all of it. I've seen various therapies and miracle cures hyped up and fade away. I bring my own educated but cynical eye to the world of diabetes.

Charon, I've seen some of your posts and you seem to be having great success. Long may it continue. Did you say that you were doing the Newcastle diet? If so I'd be interested to learn how you get on.


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[Anonymous]

The odd glitch is one thing but it's changing patterns that I don't like. I cut the carbs and the readings are better for a week and then they jump up. Or they remain predictable for weeks (breakfast and lunch) and then the post prandials suddenly jump up, and then I see the same result the next day, and the next. Nothing has changed dietary-wise. There's no explanation. Is my system confused? I dunno.

Gezzathorpe, I take your point about excessive testing. I'm a newbie to all of this. I'm an undiagnosed pre-d with normal FBG and impaired glucose tolerance ie post prandials were in the 8s, 9s and 10s after my evening meal, so I'm taking action now. I'm physically inactive, housebound with ME/CFS which requires extensive periods of rest to get from one day to the next, I'm not overweight by any means and never have been. I have good BP and low cholesterol. No family history to my knowledge. I've always had a good diet, loads of fruit and veg, wholegrains, no sugar habit, rarely touch alcohol and I'd never go near a McDonalds or KFC. Junk food and fast food has never been my thing. My risk factors are inactivity and age. My only option to stave off the big D is diet....and that ain't working too great. Or rather, less well than I'd hoped.

I burn so few calories so my food intake is modest to begin with. My next option is what? Eat nothing? LOL.

Well, you can understand why this is so depressing.

LW, a lot of misinformation on low carbing veers into cult belief territory, not that I'm saying cutting carbs is rubbish—it's not. You just need to be wary of what is fact and what isn't. I'm cutting carbs because they spike my blood sugar but at this stage of non-diagnosis I wish to avoid ketosis. I can't say categorically that it increases insulin resistance because I'm wary of where the information came from.


Gezzathorpe, in the 20-odd years that I've had ME, I've come into contact with all the diets, all the dubious therapies, all the various pet theories, myths, beliefs, etc etc. I'm wary of all of it. I've seen various therapies and miracle cures hyped up and fade away. I bring my own educated but cynical eye to the world of diabetes.

Charon, I've seen some of your posts and you seem to be having great success. Long may it continue. Did you say that you were doing the Newcastle diet? If so I'd be interested to learn how you get on.


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You have certainly got a lot to contend with but you come across as a strong person, albeit somewhat frustrated and depressed with your readings! You sound as though you couldn't do much better with your sensible eating habits apart from reducing carbs further. But, as you say, you do not, at present, with to go into ketosis. Are your patterns still up and down over a period or have they stayed up? Have your medications changed at all? Is there anything you can think of about your daily routine that's changed?

 

[charon]

The odd glitch is one thing but it's changing patterns that I don't like. I cut the carbs and the readings are better for a week and then they jump up. Or they remain predictable for weeks (breakfast and lunch) and then the post prandials suddenly jump up, and then I see the same result the next day, and the next. Nothing has changed dietary-wise. There's no explanation. Is my system confused? I dunno.

I can come up with a few layman type possibilities.
Non-diet factors. Feeling stressed, less gentle exercise - leading to stress.
Reservoirs depleted so the liver decides to raise the BS level. That might show by the BS lowering if you eat some carbohydrates - I've seen this effect but it might be coincidence.
Systems can only cope for a certain time then it jumps while things recover again.
Similar to above but there's some threshold above which the body can't cope and once you vary across that it goes out of control.

I would guess a combination of the first and second

Charon, I've seen some of your posts and you seem to be having great success. Long may it continue. Did you say that you were doing the Newcastle diet? If so I'd be interested to learn how you get on.

Not the Newcastle diet but I started off with very little food then very few carbs. Now I'm introducing carbs again.
About 25 years ago I used to be very athlectic (national standard and training for hours every day). At some point work took over and I was getting an average of 4 hours sleep a night - and working in a very stressful environment 7 days a week - that was the start of the problems.
For the last 5 years - no exercise. Last year or so - living a lot on sandwiches and ready meals and the last few months evening meal or chocolate, wine gums, crisps - which (it turns out) was making be tired so I ate more sugar to counteract it.
I think the body just gave up under the onslaught.
Combination of diet and exercise has controlled things. I suspect the exercise has most effect but I wouldn't be capable of that without the diet.
I suspect my control now is due the big change I was able to make from living on sugar and no exercise - and having spent so much time training in my younger days am able to bring the same determination to bear again.

I also think a lot is due to a bounce type effect (like the honeymoon) and it might become more difficult as things settle down. Just aiming for the next HbA1c at the moment.

The worst thing would be to be cured rather than controlled as the temptation would be to go back to the old lifestyle which was not pleasant.
And I wouldn't be where I am now without this forum - thanks everyone.

 

[ElyDave]

bloody unpredictable this blood testing lark ain't it?

Yesterday, masses of high GI carbs all day, but levels were good all day due to running, two bowls of low GI beans and lentil stew and my pre-bed reading was 13.7 :shock:

Today 125 g of low GI carb all day, apart from a few dates after dinner at 7pm, tested at 10.7 at 9pm, 12.2 at 10pm with nothing eaten in between

Hmm!

 

[janeecee]

Charon and Gezzathorpe, I'm not particularly "stressed" and if anything my activity levels are increased. Not dramatically, so theres no sudden change there. I'm not on medication. I log everything I eat using MyFitnessPal. Nothing has changed except fewer carbs! So…it defies all logic.

I did a pre and post 'exercise' reading on Saturday (wouldn't count as exercise for a non-ME person though). The difference was +0.1 so I conclude that there's no significant difference in my blood sugar levels at that level of activity. My next preprandial was in the expected range, so there's nothing there to influence BG one way or another.

ElyDave, I had good levels yesterday thanks to a bit of carb reduction, including after dinner which was low carb but probably too much protein. At bedtime my level was 0.3 higher when normally it would have fallen. It doesn't fall so much after high protein dinners—I expect that to some extent—but higher? It was probably too much protein. I was OK by morning. Carby meals tend to spike but fall off more quickly in my (limited) experience.


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[janeecee]

Just out of interest

This is from:
http://chriskresser.com/when-your-“normal”-blood-sugar-isn’t-normal-part-2

One caveat here is that very low-carb diets will produce elevated fasting blood glucose levels. Why? Because low-carb diets induce insulin resistance. Restricting carbohydrates produces a natural drop in insulin levels, which in turn activates hormone sensitive lipase. Fat tissue is then broken down, and non-esterified fatty acids (a.k.a. “free fatty acids” or NEFA) are released into the bloodstream. These NEFA are taken up by the muscles, which use them as fuel. And since the muscle’s needs for fuel has been met, it decreases sensitivity to insulin. You can read more about this at Hyperlipid.


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[janeecee]

Here's the link to Hyperlipid:

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.u ... tance.html[/url]

I make no claims to the reliability of this information. The internet is awash with low carb cult sites. It's difficult to work out what is the science and what is the pseudoscience. I'm not sure what to make of this.


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[Anonymous]

Here's the link to Hyperlipid:

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.u ... tance.html[/url]

I make no claims to the reliability of this information. The internet is awash with low carb cult sites. It's difficult to work out what is the science and what is the pseudoscience. I'm not sure what to make of this.


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Found both an interesting read ... thanks.

 

[janeecee]

And this is from Reader's Digest. It states the possibility that reducing carbs can lead to increased insulin resistance but it is not a statement of fact:

Ironically, low-carb diets may even interfere with insulin sensitivity; a certain amount of carbohydrate in your diet may be needed in order for the pancreas, which produces the insulin that keeps blood sugar in check, to work well.

Read more: http://www.rd.com/health/diet-weight-lo ... z2XKWoaVKk


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[Anonymous]

And this is from Reader's Digest. It states the possibility that reducing carbs can lead to increased insulin resistance but it is not a statement of fact:

Ironically, low-carb diets may even interfere with insulin sensitivity; a certain amount of carbohydrate in your diet may be needed in order for the pancreas, which produces the insulin that keeps blood sugar in check, to work well.

Read more: http://www.rd.com/health/diet-weight-lo ... z2XKWoaVKk


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I would have thought that what applies to the pancreas also applies to every other working part of the human body as well.

 

[janeecee]

This is why I think might be seeing these increases in BG several days after cutting carbs and now a slight rise in fasting BGs. So, I'm having a rethink on low carbing and whether it's right for me.


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[Anonymous]

This is why I think might be seeing these increases in BG several days after cutting carbs and now a slight rise in fasting BGs. So, I'm having a rethink on low carbing and whether it's right for me.


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Maybe worth a bit of experimenting? Shouldn't do any harm for a few days.

 

[janeecee]

Yes. For me, I don't need the calories as I don't burn up much more than my basal metabolism at this ultra sedentary level, but if I cut carbs it's easy for me to veer into ketogenesis territory, which I don't want, and which may increase insulin resistance according to some sources. So it will just have to be a wee bit of extra low GI carbs. I'll be cautious.


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