Post Newcastle Diet blood glucose increase.

[Pipp]

Great @Saltyseas. Not just sugar to be avoided though. All carbs break down to simple sugars. So the best way is to introduce them slowly, and use your meter to check how any food affects your BG. That and the checking of your weight regularly, any raise in either, and you know you need to make adjustments. It has to be individual, as circumstances are different. I was very naive immediately after drastic weight loss, and apparent reversal of T2. One has to remain vigilant as BG and weight can creep up again. Would be a shame to waste all that effort.

 

[runner2009]

Great @Saltyseas. Not just sugar to be avoided though. All carbs break down to simple sugars. So the best way is to introduce them slowly, and use your meter to check how any food affects your BG. That and the checking of your weight regularly, any raise in either, and you know you need to make adjustments. It has to be individual, as circumstances are different. I was very naive immediately after drastic weight loss, and apparent reversal of T2. One has to remain vigilant as BG and weight can creep up again. Would be a shame to waste all that effort.

Well three days ago I lifted weights. I felt good but could not focus or push myself.

Then yesterday evening I was so hungry it was beyond my ability to cope so I had 4oz of 97% - 3% hamburger, 1/2 of small avocado and some hummus. My symptoms went away and woke in the morning with fasting 5

Back on the straight and narrow and no more weight lifting I'm half way through my 3rd week.

Still not weighed myself but closer to size 34 pants waist and stomach fat is noticeably less.

Some days I feel foggy headed and others very hyper.

This am I woke with a 4.4 and yesterday only 2 units of insulin.

When I'm done, I hope to have a normal BMI about 22, and I'm cutting back on the fat part of the LCHF diet. Hopefully, the lower weight will allow me to eat more high density complex carbs without increasing my insulin.

I'll cut way back on dairy especially cheeses as I went overboard on them and meats.

I'd love there to be a cure, but I'd love to eat grapes and pizza all day too - not going to happen.

 

[runner2009]

But past experience of very low cal diets has taught me to be very wary. Thrifty gene, and so on.

I'm wearing a fitbi continues heart rate monitor and my average heart rate us now almost 14bpm slower than before I started.

 

[SunnyExpat]

@Brunneria

I see you comment on the 'thrifty gene' a lot.

Has it ever been actually proved to exist in any scientific trial, particularly the Newcastle diet referred to here, as my own personal experience proves my body seems not to be troubled by it?

And to be fair,

'To reverse their T2 diabetes, for an unknown length of time, provided that their T2 diabetes was caused by a fatty liver, and that fatty liver is de-fattified by weight loss on the ND and that the fatty liver does not re-develop over time due to a change in personal fat threshold.'

Means that for eight weeks of not stuffing your face, you can hold off diabetic complications for an unknown, but real length of time? I can't understand why no-one would not consider it worth a try.

 

[runner2009]

@Brunneria

I see you comment on the 'thrifty gene' a lot.

Has it ever been actually proved to exist in any scientific trial, particularly the Newcastle diet referred to here, as my own personal experience proves my body seems not to be troubled by it?

And to be fair,

'To reverse their T2 diabetes, for an unknown length of time, provided that their T2 diabetes was caused by a fatty liver, and that fatty liver is de-fattified by weight loss on the ND and that the fatty liver does not re-develop over time due to a change in personal fat threshold.'

Means that for eight weeks of not stuffing your face, you can hold off diabetic complications for an unknown, but real length of time? I can't understand why no-one would not consider it worth a try.

I'm sure we are all different when it comes to adaptation driven genes.

Not sure why my heart beat is down. We guessed slowing metabolism.

I did step on the scales. Oh ****! Maybe I'm going to have to readjust my 22BMI and go for more than 8-weeks.

I do have a lot of muscle, but lots of extra fat mixed in too.

For me, switching to the fat part of the low carb diet really wasn't good. It played into my overeating and I believe it triggered my late night eating.

I think the problem for me was if I ate a snack say protien or carbo I'd control the portion and monitor my BG.

Snacking on cheeses, etc, they were all freebees in my deluded mind - which thinks like this; eating a snack, still plenty left, I start thinking "how am I going to get more".

Sorry if I sounded overly optimistic. My BMI is in the 32 range interesting that just this last 2 1/2 weeks weight lose changed my insulin requirements and BG numbers.

For me the combo of over eating fat + unable to exercise + increasing insulin injections units + drama free GF (lovely all-around ) = massive weight gain.

I'm thinking even if I am cured, my after ND eating plan is firming up and that is a good thing for long term success - I hope (-%

 

[SunnyExpat]

I'm sure we are all different when it comes to adaptation driven genes.

Not sure why my heart beat is down. We guessed slowing metabolism.

I did step on the scales. Oh ****! Maybe I'm going to have to readjust my 22BMI and go for more than 8-weeks.

I do have a lot of muscle, but lots of extra fat mixed in too.

For me, switching to the fat part of the low carb diet really wasn't good. It played into my overeating and I believe it triggered my late night eating.

I think the problem for me was if I ate a snack say protien or carbo I'd control the portion and monitor my BG.

Snacking on cheeses, etc, they were all freebees in my deluded mind - which thinks like this; eating a snack, still plenty left, I start thinking "how am I going to get more".

Sorry if I sounded overly optimistic. My BMI is in the 32 range interesting that just this last 2 1/2 weeks weight lose changed my insulin requirements and BG numbers.

For me the combo of over eating fat + unable to exercise + increasing insulin injections units + drama free GF (lovely all-around ) = massive weight gain.

I'm thinking even if I am cured, my after ND eating plan is firming up and that is a good thing for long term success - I hope (-%

What's it down to.

My hb has been around 60 bpm my entire life.

 

[runner2009]

What's it down to.

My hb has been around 60 bpm my entire life.

My resting hb was about 63 ( in my youth it was low ) now it is 50 to 51.

Think this could be slowing metabolism? Looking over others on the NC diet seems like people ranged from 2.8 to 3.9lbs a week loss.

 

[SunnyExpat]

Heart beat is not always related to metabolism.
A lot of lchf have very different bpm.

Also,as you become fitter, your hb can reduce.

 

[Celeriac]

As a Newcastle Diet / Taylor convert of some 4 years, I have managed, thus far, to maintain non-diabetic blood glucose. I am able to eat carbs without a massive spike in BG. I have regained some weight though, and what I am seeing is average BG readings rising from 5.6 to 6.4 recently. This sets alarm bells ringing.
I believe the interpretation of the Taylor 'reversal' statement is often misunderstood. By following the Newcastle diet methodology it is possible for some T2s to attain non-diabetic BG levels through elimination of liver fat. What Prof Taylor calls going below personal fat threshold. If you raise that fat threshold again then the higher BG levels return. Anyone expecting to follow Newcastle diet for a short term then return to eating as they previously did, and regaining weight, is deluded if they think they are cured.
The 'reversal' Prof Taylor talks about is not a one way process. It needs to be recognised that the reversal can also be reversed.

Ultimately, I don't see how The Newcastle Diet can permanently reverse T2DM, because it's based on severe calorie restriction.

There have been studies before, which show a rebound effect for most people after calorie-controlled diets - Dr John Briffa wrote 'Escape The Diet Trap' about it.

I can see that it way well get rid of a fatty liver and also allow people to lose weight. As I'm now not obese and only .6 into overweight, I'd be gutted if I lost that last bit of weight then put it back and more. It's not just weight, it's also BG.

It just feels like a risk I can't take, personally. But for some people I can see that it might work, if they lost a lot of weight and had pre-diabetes. We're all individuals.

But I applaud people doing it.

 

[Indy51]

I'll be interested to see any further research as they repeat the experiment on various populations of type 2s - how long diagnosed, measures of visceral fat, BMI, etc. I also have concerns about people going into it with unrealistic expectations of a guaranteed "cure" etc. The problem with any weight loss regime is keeping it off afterwards. The statistics on people who manage to do it are pretty dismal in the general population but hopefully may be better among more highly motivated Type 2s - nothing like the prospect of losing body parts to up your motivation level

 

[runner2009]

I'll be interested to see any further research as they repeat the experiment on various populations of type 2s - how long diagnosed, measures of visceral fat, BMI, etc. I also have concerns about people going into it with unrealistic expectations of a guaranteed "cure" etc. The problem with any weight loss regime is keeping it off afterwards. The statistics on people who manage to do it are pretty dismal in the general population but hopefully may be better among more highly motivated Type 2s - nothing like the prospect of losing body parts to up your motivation level

Yes, keeping it off is a big issue. I don't believe there is a cure and I will bet that a high percentage gained their weight back or more.

For most of T2 no matter where we are in the disease spectrum "normal" carbohydrate intake is not healthy for us. And we can't go back to eating that way - as it seems that much of the population is similarly afflicted with the number of undiagnosed and prediabetes.

 

[SunnyExpat]

Ultimately, I don't see how The Newcastle Diet can permanently reverse T2DM, because it's based on severe calorie restriction.

There have been studies before, which show a rebound effect for most people after calorie-controlled diets - Dr John Briffa wrote 'Escape The Diet Trap' about it.

I can see that it way well get rid of a fatty liver and also allow people to lose weight. As I'm now not obese and only .6 into overweight, I'd be gutted if I lost that last bit of weight then put it back and more. It's not just weight, it's also BG.

It just feels like a risk I can't take, personally. But for some people I can see that it might work, if they lost a lot of weight and had pre-diabetes. We're all individuals.

But I applaud people doing it.

It's the calorie restriction, and subsequent weight loss that seem to be the key to the reversal.
Psychologically, it also breaks the eating habit, so when solid food is re-introduced at a controlled rate, and a much healthier lifestyle adopted, I would guess the weight loss can be maintained.

I suppose the problem is, when yous see the word 'diet' it's assumed that's all it is, whereas in reality the 'diet' is simply the first eight weeks of a lifestyle change.

 

[Saltyseas]

Totally agree.

Interestingly, I found this link about one of the ND trial members 18 months on - it says he's "still medication free" http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press/news/2015/10/type2diabetes/
I'm hoping that means his BG's are good! but that's only 1 person out of 10 who finished the ND trial, and as you all say I'm sure he must have changed his eating habits completely following the ND otherwise he would have gained a lot of his weight back and been on medication.

Very tired yesterday and FBG this morning 5.2 (good, but a little up from the rest of the readings this week - maybe it's the lie in ??), lost half a lb from yesterday. Feeling exceedingly hungry this morning while those around me are enjoying bacon butties.

Wondered if anyone knows if psyllium husks go off? I bought some about 6 months ago and used them last night - they were great to make my very liquidly onion soup far nicer, but they did smell strong. Maybe my sense of smell is starting to work better??

 

[Saltyseas]

Yes, keeping it off is a big issue. I don't believe there is a cure and I will bet that a high percentage gained their weight back or more.

For most of T2 no matter where we are in the disease spectrum "normal" carbohydrate intake is not healthy for us. And we can't go back to eating that way - as it seems that much of the population is similarly afflicted with the number of undiagnosed and prediabetes.

Hi @runner2009,
How was your weekend?

I'm really impressed that you can exercise while being on the ND. I feel way too weak to do any extra 'exercise' other than usual chores. Did try going for a walk at the weekend but my toes felt very cold and so we didn't go very far.

Day 13 update - FBG's are going well : Sat 4.0, Sun 4.5, Mon 4.2, and I have lost a further 3lbs. (total now 9lbs since I started).

To try and make sure I don't ever put the weight back on that I've lost so far (mainly from my first ND) I dropped off a bag of my larger clothes and favourite jeans to the charity shop on Sat...so there's no going back!

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

Hi @runner2009,
How was your weekend?

I'm really impressed that you can exercise while being on the ND. I feel way too weak to do any extra 'exercise' other than usual chores. Did try going for a walk at the weekend but my toes felt very cold and so we didn't go very far.

Day 13 update - FBG's are going well : Sat 4.0, Sun 4.5, Mon 4.2, and I have lost a further 3lbs. (total now 9lbs since I started).

To try and make sure I don't ever put the weight back on that I've lost so far (mainly from my first ND) I dropped off a bag of my larger clothes and favourite jeans to the charity shop on Sat...so there's no going back!

Really impressive keep it up

 

[runner2009]

Hi @runner2009,
How was your weekend?

I'm really impressed that you can exercise while being on the ND. I feel way too weak to do any extra 'exercise' other than usual chores. Did try going for a walk at the weekend but my toes felt very cold and so we didn't go very far.

Day 13 update - FBG's are going well : Sat 4.0, Sun 4.5, Mon 4.2, and I have lost a further 3lbs. (total now 9lbs since I started).

To try and make sure I don't ever put the weight back on that I've lost so far (mainly from my first ND) I dropped off a bag of my larger clothes and favourite jeans to the charity shop on Sat...so there's no going back!

Actually, it is going good. Been super hungry sometimes, but I've been eating a lot of stir fried cabbage ( not soup ) with no oil, just burnt and crispy and with some Sriracha and hot peppers and then 500ml of water and it is very filling.

I lifted for about 1/2 hour twice and didn't push it. Not so bad. Only frustrated in that losing weight is only about 3lbs a week, but the fat around my middle is made some dramatic improvements.

Mentally, I am good and at least right now in for the long run - maybe might go a bit longer than the 8-weeks. I'll see. But I am more firm than ever that I am going to go back to eating and snacking on veggies - no more cheese as a regular meal or snack item, nor pork belly and meats. Mostly fish and controlled quantities and when the weight goes down I am going to start testing legumes again as in the past they shot my BG up super high.

Snacking is my downfall, so I have to find snacks that if I go over indulging they have so few calories that they can't harm you - cabbage is one - oops I ate an extra head of cabbage for a snack Oh no an extra 45calories

 

[runner2009]

Actually, it is going good. Been super hungry sometimes, but I've been eating a lot of stir fried cabbage ( not soup ) with no oil, just burnt and crispy and with some Sriracha and hot peppers and then 500ml of water and it is very filling.

Fasting BG is again in the 4.0 to 4.3. I did have to use a bit more insulin total of 6 units of 75/25

 

[runner2009]

Hi @runner2009,
How was your weekend?

I'm really impressed that you can exercise while being on the ND. I feel way too weak to do any extra 'exercise' other than usual chores. Did try going for a walk at the weekend but my toes felt very cold and so we didn't go very far.

Day 13 update - FBG's are going well : Sat 4.0, Sun 4.5, Mon 4.2, and I have lost a further 3lbs. (total now 9lbs since I started).

To try and make sure I don't ever put the weight back on that I've lost so far (mainly from my first ND) I dropped off a bag of my larger clothes and favourite jeans to the charity shop on Sat...so there's no going back!

@Saltyseas

Something happened today. I've eaten only stir fried cabbages, chard and hot red peppers. I'm not even hungry. I did have a cafe late with milk.

I worked all day. Made a cheeseburger and Brussel sprouts for sun ( crispy garlicky BS ). Didn't even feel like eating the burger nor a shake only stir fried cabbage and pepper.

I took my BG ( No insulin today only about 24 hours ago ) my BG was 4.0!!!

I'm not even feeling muddled and back is not bad. Could all this cabbage be an anti inflammatory?

Whoopee ( for now )

 

[Saltyseas]

Wow @runner2009 that's fantastic!

it sounds like you're really in the groove! Maybe your insulin is so under control you've stopped having cravings for even the shake. Snacking on cabbage is really impressive - and I still admire the fact that you are doing weights while on the ND too.

I don't know much about food but I think cabbage was used as a compress to treat bruising in the old days - so could be anti inflammatory.

I'm at the point were I'm battling with myself about continuing with this very strict ND or revert to a real food version of the ND. My results are very good so far (and better than my previous real food ND) but it is soooo difficult, and really boring - keep thinking a mouthful of this or that won't make a difference - but I'm sure it will, and I did want to try to stick to the protocol this time just to see if Roy Taylor's claims can 'cure' my diabetes!!

Day 14 update - FBG 5.1, lost another 2 lbs since yesterday (now 11lbs since start)

 

[runner2009]

Wow @runner2009 that's fantastic!

it sounds like you're really in the groove! Maybe your insulin is so under control you've stopped having cravings for even the shake. Snacking on cabbage is really impressive - and I still admire the fact that you are doing weights while on the ND too.

I don't know much about food but I think cabbage was used as a compress to treat bruising in the old days - so could be anti inflammatory.

I'm at the point were I'm battling with myself about continuing with this very strict ND or revert to a real food version of the ND. My results are very good so far (and better than my previous real food ND) but it is soooo difficult, and really boring - keep thinking a mouthful of this or that won't make a difference - but I'm sure it will, and I did want to try to stick to the protocol this time just to see if Roy Taylor's claims can 'cure' my diabetes!!

Day 14 update - FBG 5.1, lost another 2 lbs since yesterday (now 11lbs since start)

You should stick with it. You can do it. I know I'm hungry because I'm dreaming about jelly beans.

My fasting BG is 4.7 and this morning I feel hungry and drugged. I'm like really hungry. Yesterday I felt super hyper.

I can't lift weights every day and its not like I'm at the gym doing super sets. Just doing kettle bell squats, sets of dumbbell military presses, hammer curled and bench presses.

It's funny my youngest son thinks my little homemade gym ( I bought that rubber flooring at Costco for cheap it was for the garage lol ) is a joke and one needs to go to a proper gym I don't know what is wrong with him?

I don't know, I just want to eat stir fry cabbage. I'm liking it crispy with chopped hot red peppers. I don't want the shakes.

I'm thinking I'm going cabbage mad!! Monday was the start of my 4th week - I think what's helped is the medium cafe lattes I've had - no sugar just no fat milk.

Here is wishing you strength. I'm going to try and drink only the shakes today and nothing else today and tomorrow.

Then I'll be dreaming about cabbages.