Recommend Dr for animal insulin

[wildfire]

Havent been able to sleep at night for some months, until early hours of the morning. Because of the similar effects I had on synthetic thyroxine, which went when I changed to porcine thyroid replacement a change to animal basal insulin seems worthwhile. Unfortunately the clinic consultant will not prescribe natural animal insulin and the GP will not act without the approval of the consultant.
Could anyone recommend a doctor who would prescribe bovine lente as background insulin.

Cheers

 

[catherinecherub]

Have you read this booklet from IDT. Their careline might be of help to you. I wonder why the Consultant refuses, has he said why?

following novo nordisk’s announcement of the discontinuation of their pork insulins, many people have been misinformed about the continued availability of pork insulin.

pork and beef insulins continue to be manufactured in both vials and cartridges by the manufacturer [wockhardt uK] and in the UK are available with an nhs prescription. [www.wockhardt.co.uk]

people in other countries who are denied access to the animal insulin they need, can import it from the Uk for personal use

http://iddt.org/publications/30-years-of-synthetic-insulin

I am sure there are others on the forum who use this type of insulin.

 

[wildfire]

The consultant feels that there are long term risks in using natural animal insulins, which could lead to complications, especially involving the health of the heart. The GP says he feels unconfident to prescribe insulin without the approval of the consultant.

It was thanks to IDDTs informed and knowledgeable study that prompted me to change from Lantus to Levemir, and now it feels like a change to the animal insulins would be beneficial.

Is is possible to import it somehow, or is a doctors prescription necessary?

 

[CarbsRok]

The consultant feels that there are long term risks in using natural animal insulins, which could lead to complications, especially involving the health of the heart. The GP says he feels unconfident to prescribe insulin without the approval of the consultant.

It was thanks to IDDTs informed and knowledgeable study that prompted me to change from Lantus to Levemir, and now it feels like a change to the animal insulins would be beneficial.

Is is possible to import it somehow, or is a doctors prescription necessary?

If it helps I have been on animal insulin for almost 50 years and have no complications.
I would suspect your consultant knows nothing about animal insulin and has no intention of finding out about it. Hence his porkie to you regarding heart problems. My uncle is almost 80 and has used animal insulin for about 50 years as well, no complications.

 

[wildfire]

If it helps I have been on animal insulin for almost 50 years and have no complications.
I would suspect your consultant knows nothing about animal insulin and has no intention of finding out about it. Hence his porkie to you regarding heart problems. My uncle is almost 80 and has used animal insulin for about 50 years as well, no complications.

 

[wildfire]

Thats brilliant.
At our last meeting, about a year ago, we did end up raising our voices at each other, neither of us willing to let the rightness of our opinion go.
After that decided to just leave things are they were and continue on Levemir.
This year It has become impossible to live well on the Levemir and phoned the consultant to ask for a meeting only he does not wish to consult with me.

 

[PaulinaB]

Thats brilliant.
At our last meeting, about a year ago, we did end up raising our voices at each other, neither of us willing to let the rightness of our opinion go.
After that decided to just leave things are they were and continue on Levemir.
This year It has become impossible to live well on the Levemir and phoned the consultant to ask for a meeting only he does not wish to consult with me.

As a type 1 you are entitled to be seen by a consultant! If he hasn't seen you for a year, maybe you can ask your gp to refer you to a different clinic? You need to be able to see a doctor!

I have no idea how often you're supposed to be seen by a doc, but a year sounds too long. @noblehead ?

 

[anna29]

Have you synthetic tolerance issues ?

You could try IDDT 01604 622837

 

[noblehead]

Thats brilliant.
At our last meeting, about a year ago, we did end up raising our voices at each other, neither of us willing to let the rightness of our opinion go.
After that decided to just leave things are they were and continue on Levemir.
This year It has become impossible to live well on the Levemir and phoned the consultant to ask for a meeting only he does not wish to consult with me.

I wouldn't think they had a choice but to see you, after all your still experiencing difficulties with your diabetes control. I would persevere and push for the appointment, if there's more than one consultant in the diabetes clinic ask to see someone else, simply disagreeing with them on something is no grounds for them not to see you again.

 

[wildfire]

The consultant is kind of head of the hospital clinic and probably have become a bit cynical about the hierarchy and wonder whether seeing another consultant from the hospital will give me an unbiased review.

Was only able to get an diagnosis and treatment of underactive thyroid, from a private, independant doctor and am willing to pursue this path with regard to insulin of my choice, based on my own experiences.

Cheers

 

[Beaver Lee]

Have you got any further?
I hope that you have found some help.
You can see by my question re bovine insulin that we too want to find a consultant who will help.
Please could you let me know how you get on?
Thanks a lot
Beaver Lee

 

[wildfire]

Hi Beaver Lee

From this forum has come a couple of good ideas. Ask pharmacists at the usual chemists whether they know of anyone receiving animal insulins and who their doctors are. Also write to Minister of Health for an official line on the prescribing of animal insulins.
Before the appointment in a few weeks time with the GP at the practice who has a reputation for listening and responding reasonable, I thought of going to see Citizens Advice just to clear things in my own head.
How have you been finding it?

 

[Beaver Lee]

IDDT have been very helpful.
Both with information, books and advice.
They explain some of the situation in this country too:

http://iddt.org/about/gm-vs-animal-insulin/availability-of-natural-animal-insulins-in-the-uk

http://iddt.org/about/gm-vs-animal-...ltant-refuses-to-change-you-to-animal-insulin

http://iddt.org/about/gm-vs-animal-insulin/changing-your-insulin

http://iddt.org/news/nhs-changes-for-diabetes-write-to-your-mp-now

Our son is keen for bovine not porcine which makes it harder:
Porcine is used more often. Our hospital has older people in a different age group clinic using porcine.

The chemist idea sounds good, I shall try that.

Citizen's Advice could be good: I have been there twice this year on behalf of two other people re totally different things.
What they were able to do each time was to point us to some other place that could help. Both places turned out to be really helpful.
(At citizen's advice we had a five minute initial assessment type interview.)

It does seem that those that get prescribed animal insulin have had to be persistent. Really determined.

So... Keep going, persevere, and please keep me posted.



Thanks so much,

Beaver Lee

 

[CarbsRok]

Perhaps have a read of NICE guidelines as it used to say something to the effect of patient choice.

Our son is keen for bovine not porcine which makes it harder:
Porcine is used more often. Our hospital has older people in a different age group clinic using porcine.

As both pork and beef have exactly the same duration, it really doesn't matter if pork is more popular.
Obviously plenty of people must use beef insulin or they would stop making it. I'm highly allergic to pork insulin hence why I use beef and have done so for the last 49+ years.

 

[wildfire]

Thanks for the links, and have looked out a booklet from IDDT 'Your Diabetes - know you rights' which quotes some of the NICE guidelines, one being Choice of Treatments. Thinking back to one of the last meetings with the consultant, it did get pretty heated and pretty stupid really and in losing my temper could have let the smallest glimmer of opportunity slip clean away. With hindsight will definitely ask someone to go with me to next doctors appointment!!
Beef insulin is the chosen insulin as isophane does not agree.

 

[Beaver Lee]

Perhaps have a read of NICE guidelines as it used to say something to the effect of patient choice.


As both pork and beef have exactly the same duration, it really doesn't matter if pork is more popular.
Obviously plenty of people must use beef insulin or they would stop making it. I'm highly allergic to pork insulin hence why I use beef and have done so for the last 49+ years.

Explaining your own experience is really helpful, thank you.
Beaver Lee

 

[CarbsRok]

Thanks for the links, and have looked out a booklet from IDDT 'Your Diabetes - know you rights' which quotes some of the NICE guidelines, one being Choice of Treatments. Thinking back to one of the last meetings with the consultant, it did get pretty heated and pretty stupid really and in losing my temper could have let the smallest glimmer of opportunity slip clean away. With hindsight will definitely ask someone to go with me to next doctors appointment!!
Beef insulin is the chosen insulin as isophane does not agree.

Pork and beef insulin's have different types available including both pork and beef Isophane, So you need to make sure you understand the different types other wise you can not hold a reasoned discussion with any HCP regarding it's use.

 

[wildfire]

Looked up Wockhardt's website and the only long acting insulin to replace Levemir, without protamine or isophane ,is bovine lente in vials.
When protamine/isophane mixture as in Humulin I, peaks it makes my bs plummet uncontrolably and very difficult to get it stable for some worrying time.
To get used to changing from Levemir to Bovine Lente, to cover meals etc would continue using Humalog.

 

[CarbsRok]

Looked up Wockhardt's website and the only long acting insulin to replace Levemir, without protamine or isophane ,is bovine lente in vials.
When protamine/isophane mixture as in Humulin I, peaks it makes my bs plummet uncontrolably and very difficult to get it stable for some worrying time.
To get used to changing from Levemir to Bovine Lente, to cover meals etc would continue using Humalog.

Using Isophane is a different ball game.
IE, you know it peaks hence why you need to snack mid morning and afternoon plus have some supper before bedtime. This solves the hypo problem. Using mixes is very difficult, but using Isophane and neutral separately is achievable whilst practicing MDI. I managed ok for many years on that routine

 

[Beaver Lee]

Havent been able to sleep at night for some months, until early hours of the morning. Because of the similar effects I had on synthetic thyroxine, which went when I changed to porcine thyroid replacement a change to animal basal insulin seems worthwhile. Unfortunately the clinic consultant will not prescribe natural animal insulin and the GP will not act without the approval of the consultant.
Could anyone recommend a doctor who would prescribe bovine lente as background insulin.

Thank you for asking for help here Wildfire.
This is proving so helpful.
Beaver Lee