Reversing Type 2 diabetes

[SueMG]

Hi Everyone

It is possible to reverse type 2 diabetes by changing ones diet to a Whole Food plant based diet with no added fat or sugar.

Here are some links to give you information.

Dr Michael Gregor was in London this April and gave a talk to the college of Naturopathic medicine. He discusses diabetes around 40 minutes, but the whole talk is very interesting

A lady who reverses her diabetes https://dub128.mail.live.com/?tid=cmMhLsDOAo5hGvhAAjfeRhHA2&fid=flinbox

Good websites with lots of information

http://nutritionstudies.org/
http://www.forksoverknives.com/
https://www.drmcdougall.com/
http://nutritionfacts.org/

This way of eating will also lower blood pressure, cholesterol and reverse heart disease.

Sue

 

[Squire Fulwood]

Thank you for the information, it is just what I needed and only 1 hour 11 minutes to explain it.

 

[Brunneria]

Ah. this explains why you posted that link criticising Keto and LCHF.

 

[hankjam]

@SueMG anyway related to the fine Dr M G or otherwise linked? Just asking.

 

[AtkinsMo]

Low Carb High Fat will also reverse diabetes, reduce Cholesterol for the vast majority of people, and reverse heart disease. And you won't be deficient in fat soluble vitamins and you won't have problems with dental health or bone health. Read Denise Minger's 'Death by Food Pyramid' or, just for starters, read her critique of 'Forks over Knives' or 'The China Study'. https://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/

I have no problem with people wishing to follow a vegan lifestyle for moral reasons, and are prepared to work very hard to manage to obtain a nutrient dense balanced diet from only plant based sources, but to pretend that it is the only healthy diet is nonsense and backed up by no / flawed science.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

I feel I have a dog in this fight/carrot in this salad by being a T2 low carb vegan. What is your interest @SueMG ? Your profile says you do not have diabetes. Nothing good on telly?

 

[Oldvatr]

I feel I have a dog in this fight/carrot in this salad by being a T2 low carb vegan. What is your interest @SueMG ? Your profile says you do not have diabetes. Nothing good on telly?

Duck! (or was it pheasant)?

 

[pleinster]

If you are telling us that anything at all will reverse diabetes (be it plant based wonder courses, purely meat based meals, fungi and rice krispies...), and if you mean "reverse" as in "cure" - no it won't, no it won't now it won't. This is a great site where lots of very good people who are serious about managing their blood sugars express their views and their approaches in helpful ways, but - I wish people who are trying to sell rubbish, promote amazing doctor wonderful's curebook...people who think (possibly in a well-meaning way even) that they have a solution for everyone..would go fishing instead. It's not helpful; it's dross. If you mean "reversed" as in something will help decrease blood sugar levels to a manageable level (even non-diabetic levels) so long as we persist with whatever diet/method is being advised (ie. in the sure and certain knowledge that blood sugars will increase again as soon as normal eating is resumed) - then that's great but only helpful if you make that clear. Personally, unless that is clear, I don't red past a title or the first line as I credit the view with as much veracity and value as I do standing on one's head for a week as a surefire cure for gullibility. ps. anyone thinking the mushroom/rice-krispies thing is worth a bash...maybe don't. love n hugs

 

[Oldvatr]

Hi Everyone

It is possible to reverse type 2 diabetes by changing ones diet to a Whole Food plant based diet with no added fat or sugar.

Here are some links to give you information.

Dr Michael Gregor was in London this April and gave a talk to the college of Naturopathic medicine. He discusses diabetes around 40 minutes, but the whole talk is very interesting

A lady who reverses her diabetes https://dub128.mail.live.com/?tid=cmMhLsDOAo5hGvhAAjfeRhHA2&fid=flinbox

Good websites with lots of information

http://nutritionstudies.org/
http://www.forksoverknives.com/
https://www.drmcdougall.com/
http://nutritionfacts.org/

This way of eating will also lower blood pressure, cholesterol and reverse heart disease.

Sue

I tried to access the second link but seem to be locked out of the US Microsoft login process. The video link I found very difficult to follow - the slides behind the presenter were impossible to follow and were very distracting. Do you have access to the slide data without the presenter? There seems to be very little cross reference to any scientific sources to back up what the presenter was saying. I gave up before the 40 mins was up, so did not see what the presenter had to say about diabetes.

It would be interesting to hear from any diabetics who have tried this diet. Has anyone had success with it? Please join in this discussion.

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi Everyone

It is possible to reverse type 2 diabetes by changing ones diet to a Whole Food plant based diet with no added fat or sugar.

Here are some links to give you information.

Dr Michael Gregor was in London this April and gave a talk to the college of Naturopathic medicine. He discusses diabetes around 40 minutes, but the whole talk is very interesting

A lady who reverses her diabetes https://dub128.mail.live.com/?tid=cmMhLsDOAo5hGvhAAjfeRhHA2&fid=flinbox

Good websites with lots of information

http://nutritionstudies.org/
http://www.forksoverknives.com/
https://www.drmcdougall.com/
http://nutritionfacts.org/

This way of eating will also lower blood pressure, cholesterol and reverse heart disease.

Sue

Have you seen Bill Clinton recently?.. he looks awful..
I think this is the dietary format he follows.....
Nuff said..give me LCHF anytime

 

[Welshman1952]

Firstly, can I put my cards firmly on the table - I am a long-term committed vegan. Moreover, I happen to believe that from a health point of view, veganism has a lot to offer. We know that meat is injected with hormones, milk contains unhealthy bacteria etc etc.

However, if veganism is the great cure all then how come I became a T2D? Of course, I know you can't "catch" diabetes through diet, but if Gregor's argument is to hold then once I became diabetic, my veganism should have immediately reversed it! Significantly it didnt, BUT a LCHF diet does appear to have dramatically reduced my blood glucose levels and early indicators suggest my HbA1c's will place me in (at least) the pre-diabetic stage.

To imply that veganism of itself is a great cure all is nothing short of dangerous. It's like those who argue that being a veeg automatically allows you to lose weight -- even though chips, chocolate and sugar are technically vegan foods (have you seen the calories/ sugar in a vegan chocolate fudge cake?).

I would argue instead that a healthy vegan diet can certainly help people along the recovery path if coupled with the known benefits of LCHF food intake. And so as to not be labeled as some kind of food fascist let me also state that I believe veganism for me was an ethical choice. It works for me - but it doesn't work for everyone and the beauty of being human is the huge diversity of opinion that exists. Long may it continue.

Oh, and finally - I was eating the McDougall diet for a year or so ... it has many benefits for sure, but guess what - it didnt reverse my diabetes. I guess I'll stay LCHF albeit as a vegan.

Sorry for the long post ... rant over

 

[Oldvatr]

Have you seen Bill Clinton recently?.. he looks awful..
I think this is the dietary format he follows.....
Nuff said..give me LCHF anytime

I worked with two guys that were heavily into macrobiotic vegan diet, and they were the most unhealthy guys I knew. They were always throwing sickies, and spent most of the day sneezing and coughing and running to the loo. They left work and retired on the grounds of ill health, and one was in his 20's. I am not saying they are typical vegans, and obviously got their message mixed up somewhere along the way. But the worst thing was they preached to us daily about why a macro diet was the only way Natural foods, untouched by agrichemicals / organic / ethnic etc. Thank you @Welshman1952 for your sanity and the way you explained your approach.

 

[kokhongw]

@SueMG Thx for the post. I am not a vegan. But I find the points on animal protein raising IGF1 and cursory reference to circadian rhythms are important considerations. The examples for diabetes reversal quoted are no less impressive than those seen with low carb high fats.

Many of us experienced rapid, dramatic improvements after switching to low carb high fats diets . Carbs/Proteins are generally insulinogenic, that may explain why we see those improvements. Our views are often dominated and measured by glucose control only. Mainly because that is the easiest to measure. Of course that could be as misleading as saying we don't have fever, so we are fine . We don't have home testing kits for insulin levels, IGF1, IL6, C-Reactive protein, TNF-Alpha etc...

 

[Oldvatr]

@SueMG................. Our views are often dominated and measured by glucose control only. Mainly because that is the easiest to measure. Of course that could be as misleading as saying we don't have fever, so we are fine . We don't have home testing kits for insulin levels, IGF1, IL6, C-Reactive protein, TNF-Alpha etc...

Does anyone have a home testing kit for those? But diabetics do get more regular tests, and are more closely monitored for those parameters than those in the generl populace, regardless of what diet they are using. So, diabetics is a good class of people to study in terms of outcomes and efficiency of either diet. So I ask again, has anyone had success with the diet being discussed here? We see daily here reports of success with LC type diets. So is there independent evidence of success apart from the proponent?

 

[uart]

I'd like to summarise what I've gathered over time from reading about different approaches that have been reported as helpful in diabetes management by various sources.

1. Fasting and very low calorie regimes like the "Newcastle Diet". Obviously more of short term intervention rather than a long term sustainable diet (as these often only have about half of a persons daily calorie requirements), but reported as useful by many people.

2. A whole food plant based (WFPB) diet containing mostly fibrous vegetables and relatively low energy density foods. This diet can overlap to some extent with the low calorie regimes, as many people will have trouble getting enough calories if following this diet strictly (very low fat and mostly fibrous as opposed to starchy vegetables).

3. A LCHF diet, which is the approach I personally follow and which has given me excellent results in terms of BGL control, weight management, and diabetes management in general.

My personal opinion is that the LCHF approach is the easiest diet to follow, particularly in the long term, and is by far the most likely to be able to provide the full range of dietary needs (both micro and macro nutrients) without requiring supplements or any particularly intensive or careful planning.

While I recognise each of the above approaches as having their own particular merits, the area where I have a problem with the WFPB proponents is that, almost without exception, every advocate that I've meet treats the subject with a kind of religious zeal. They generally consider their way as THE ONLY WAY and they are often openly hostile and scornful of other approaches (particularly LCHF). TBH, its almost as though they were a religious organisation fighting the good fight against the other false prophets.

I didn't watch the entire video linked in the OP because it looked very much like every other video I've ever watched by WFPB diet advocates, and just in the first few minutes that I did watch you could sense the evangelistic tone of the presentation.

 

[SunnyExpat]

I'd like to summarise what I've gathered over time from reading about different approaches that have been reported as helpful in diabetes management by various sources.

1. Fasting and very low calorie regimes like the "Newcastle Diet". Obviously more of short term intervention rather than a long term sustainable diet (as these often only have about half of a persons daily calorie requirements), but reported as useful by many people.

2. A whole food plant based (WFPB) diet containing mostly fibrous vegetables and relatively low energy density foods. This diet can overlap to some extent with the low calorie regimes, as many people will have trouble getting enough calories if following this diet strictly (very low fat and mostly fibrous as opposed to starchy vegetables).

3. A LCHF diet, which is the approach I personally follow and which has given me excellent results in terms of BGL control, weight management, and diabetes management in general.

My personal opinion is that the LCHF approach is the easiest diet to follow, particularly in the long term, and is by far the most likely to be able to provide the full range of dietary needs (both micro and macro nutrients) without requiring supplements or any particularly intensive and careful planning.

While I recognise each of the above approaches as having there own particular merits, the area where I have a problem with the WFPB proponents is that, almost without exception, every advocate that I've meet treats the subject with a kind of religious zeal. They generally consider their way as THE ONLY WAY and they are often openly hostile and scornful of other approaches (particularly LCHF). TBH, its almost as though they were a religious organisation fighting the good fight against the other false prophets.

I didn't watch the entire video linked in the OP because it looked very much like every other video I've ever watched by WFPB diet advocates, and just in the first few minutes that I did watch you could sense the evangelistic tone of the presentation.

I don't know, I think you need to read threads on the Newcastle Diet, and WFPB to see which group is most vocal on why they won't work, and which diet should be the only one used as the only way.

 

[Oldvatr]

I don't know, I think you need to read threads on the Newcastle Diet, and WFPB to see which group is most vocal on why they won't work, and which diet should be the only one used as the only way.

Some of us on LCHF have also been accused of fervour and zeal, so it is a 'universal trait' I think. Although i have not studied Newcastle Diet to any deep degree, I think that it has merit, and has been studied as a serious contender. It is also designed to be a 'quick fix' in that it is time limited, so is different from the WFPB and other LC diets. It is more akin to Atkins, which as we know has its proponents and also suffers from zeal and fervour.

 

[SunnyExpat]

Some of us on LCHF have also been accused of fervour and zeal, so it is a 'universal trait' I think. Although i have not studied Newcastle Diet to any deep degree, I think that it has merit, and has been studied as a serious contender. It is also designed to be a 'quick fix' in that it is time limited, so is different from the WFPB and other LC diets. It is more akin to Atkins, which as we know has its proponents and also suffers from zeal and fervour.

It may be portrayed as a quick fix by some, but if done correctly, it's merely the start of a lifetime of change.
Only the first eight weeks is the liquid diet phase, using shakes under medical supervision.
This breaks the habits associated with food, be it over generous portions, bad choices, or both.
Then there is a careful reintroduction of a balanced diet, with correctly sized portions.
Sadly, many of the detractors miss the last phase out of their critique.

For those that do decry it, as an 'eight week starvation diet, then straight back to the old ways, and if you put all the weight back on, you'll be diabetic again', it probably shows more about a lack of correct understanding, and the habits of the poster themselves, than it does about the diet.
Atkins, is much more akin to LCHF.

 

[Oldvatr]

It may be portrayed as a quick fix by some, but if done correctly, it's merely the start of a lifetime of change.
Only the first eight weeks is the liquid diet phase, using shakes under medical supervision.
This breaks the habits associated with food, be it over generous portions, bad choices, or both.
Then there is a careful reintroduction of a balanced diet, with correctly sized portions.
Sadly, many of the detractors miss the last phase out of their critique.

For those that do decry it, as an 'eight week starvation diet, then straight back to the old ways, and if you put all the weight back on, you'll be diabetic again', it probably shows more about a lack of correct understanding, and the habits of the poster themselves, than it does about the diet.
Atkins, is much more akin to LCHF.

New, improved, Atkins. Not the original concept Atkins.

 

[SunnyExpat]

Everything follows the money in the end.