So I'm new at this...

Petaluk

Well-Known Member
Messages
251
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Only when your BS levels have stabilised. Don't throw away money just yet
How long should they be stabilised for? It’s been nearly a month and my blood levels have been under 7. BTW .. is it when your BG is over 7 for type 2 that damage occurs in the body? Thank you.
 
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PDR

Active Member
Messages
37
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Piers Morgan
So now it's nearly a couple of months downstream, and so I thought I'd update this. My graph now looks like this:

blood sugar 3.png


Ignore the "date" numbers (I've been trying to make excel display the dates properly but it's refused and is now sulking). Each vertical gridline is a day, and the days are counted from april 21st to today. The two dashed red lines are the +/-3SD boundaries because I'm an engineer and I can't see any data without trying to process and stratify it - you can ignore these as well. But the general picture the numbers paint seems reasonably good (ie consistent).

I'm taking one metformin twice a day (with my morning coffee and before supper) plus a gliclazide before lunch and supper. I'm hoping I'll soon be dropping the glic because on the odd occasion when I've forgotten to have them with me my numbers seem to remain the same. I will be discussing this with the doc in a couple of weeks. Two months ago my HBA1C was a scary 140ish, but last week it was back to 58. Looking at my graphs that number probably includes about 3-4 weeks before I had the bg under control, so hopefully my next one should be even lower.

On the diet side I'm essentially trying the zero carbs/zero sugar approach. I may have the odd fragment of bread when it's served with soup or pate, and I will admit that I have about a tablespoon of oppo vanilla ice cream per week, but that's about it. I drink quite a lot of coke zero (cherry or vanilla) as my one sweet thing, and I have half a teaspoon of fructose in my (black, real) coffee once or twice a day.

But the bulk of my food is salads with meat, salmon and/or cheese when I'm away from home and if I need to graze it's either dry-roasted peanuts or almonds. If you remember I live away from home for most of the week. I solved the lunch problem by discovering a nearby sandwich bar who do a wonderful range of salad boxes.

When I'm at home I experiment with recipes that my wife and daughter can have rice/spuds/pasta with, but I have without. I've invented a "chicken-breast escalope with cheese and asparagus under a tomato & basil sauce" thing which seems to go down well, and tonight it's a pan-fried/braised chicken breasts in red wine and mushrooms thing which I hope will work.

How do I feel? Well my eyes have finally settled down without a change of glasses (yee-ha!), and I've lost 2 stone in the last 3 months. But I still often feel lethargic, especially after exercise or exertion, which is disappointing. I'm also having more migraines (the vision-disturbance only, thank <insert preferred deity here>) than I used to. I've always been prone to them, but usually only got 2-3 a year and so having six in the last ten days is definitely a change. I also seem to be having vivid dreams (not all about chocolate, cake, doorstep cheese& pickle sandwiches etc) - are any of these meds known for being psycho-active?

But I guess the real upside is that I haven't had a stroke or heart attack, and nor have any sundry limbs or appendages fallen off. I also had my eyes checked by the company aviation medic, and she's restored my class 1 medical so I'm allowed to fly again if I want to.

So some good, some less so, but mainly good. The zero-carb, zero-sugar thing seems to work for me, although I appreciate it doesn't work for everyone.

€0.00003 supplied,

PDR
 
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Canvaspic

Well-Known Member
Messages
373
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Just downloaded your graph. As an engineer also, I would say it tells the low carb lifestyle at a glance. Very Impressive.
 

Alexandra100

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,751
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
On the diet side I'm essentially trying the zero carbs/zero sugar approach
Great progress, great chart. But you are not eating zero carb. Pretty much no-one does. There are carbs in nuts, in salads and in many cheeses. Peanuts especially are high in carbs compared to almonds and walnuts. Just because a vegetable is eaten raw in a salad, doesn't make it any less carborific. Some eg carrots and onions are higher carb than others. I had to learn this the slow, hard way. It was only the other day that I realised there are carbs in the majority of brands of butter. I am not saying you are eating too many carbs, but it might be worthwhile occasionally totting up exactly how many.
 

kokhongw

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,394
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
A beautiful graph...that looks remarkably similar to all those who overcame the misguided fears of fats and fasting.
 

Phoenix55

Well-Known Member
Messages
577
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Love the graph - do take it to show the doc at your next appointment. A picture says more than a thousand words. Spectacular progress and love the meal ideas - must try the chicken in red wine when the weather cools a little.
 

kitedoc

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,783
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
black jelly beans
Hi @PDR,
You are a worthy opponent of the Dragon called diabetes (whether you're battery powered or not) and humour IS the best medicine !!
You might wish to avail yourself of the forum on ( edit Thank you DCUKMod delete diabulimia )( eating disorders, in particular about about swinging bsls high then low which may lead to the insatiable hunger and resultant food intake problems that many of us have challenges with. I am not saying that is what you have but it may offer some insights !!
You mentioned whether to increase protein or fat: most protein contains fat anyway and I have read about hunger being a drive in humans to obtain sufficient protein: Thus if you only have pasta for food your body will cause you to consume enough to meet protein requirements (which is a lot of pasta and thus carbs and calories !) compared to say a menu with tempeh (refrigerated varieties are relatively low in salt), steak, yoghurt (and some varieties have higher protein values than others). Satiety is thus linked to protein intake, with of course, conditioning from our infancy to favourite foods, which not necessarily protein-rich but possibly carb or fat rich and flavoured.
Of course, refrigeration remains a challenge and others have contributed suggestions which I hope may bear fruit (oops, food in moderation!!) And in the 'good old days' with hunter-gatherer societies you would fit in well with the feast and famine cycle - and I mean no disrespect to the northeners !!
There are graphs about the role of protein in blood sugar formation also: apparently something like 50% of a adequate protein intake is converted to glucose with appears as a much (edit out less) more gentle rise in BSL (at least compared to carbs) at 4 + hours after consumption of the protein. So a way to perhaps interpret protein intake and metabolism (my own version, un-patented and purely conjectural, unlike engineering ;)) is that our bodies scoop up the amount of protein needed for enzymes systems, repair and maintenance) and 'decant ' (apologies to chemical engineers) the excess across to glucose formation. After all our brains run on glucose almost exclusively ! Of course there are practical limits on protein intake as our kidney filtration systems (great examples of engineering) have to handle the excess metabolites of protein.
In another part of the blood sugar/ insulin equation is insulin resistance - our body's level of sensitivity to the effects of insulin is governed by many things including our weight ( up weight above normal levels --> up insulin resistance as does stress (rushing out the door to catch a flight etc), lack of exercise (sitting for some time in airports, in planes, snowed in (apologies to northeners) etc. So exercising ( not too vigorously otherwise adrenaline causes release of stored glucose from the liver and ups the blood sugar), reducing weight ( less calories in, and yes people feel tired during this process), relaxation exercises maybe to reduce stress (plus humour , e.g. audiotapes of Monty Python etc etc), walking about in airports, ? parking some distance away from a destination so more walking is encouraged, a step machine at the hotel whilst watching the gentle snow falling) etc.
One other consideration about insulin resistance, well within your grasp, and I appeal to the chemical engineering part of your ? past ? present training for this - bowel bugs. It has been shown that there are more bugs in our bowels than cells in our bodies =- the composition of these bugs can alter our body's degree of resistance to insulin. I do not profess to be an expert in this area but I personally follow ( as a type 1 diabetic) the belief that foods with pro-biotic activity such as live culture yoghurts, tempeh, sauerkraut, kefir, taken as well as pre-biotics (bowel bug food) such as berries (in moderate), honey (in small amounts) dark chocolate in small amounts, leeks, onion, garlic, apples (in moderate), artichokes ( jerusulem and others( bottles in oil and acidic fluid keep out of the fridge) and others contain certain fibres that promote bowel bug health, lower insulin resistance and also help prevention constipation.
Of course production of gas and the smell of garlic on the breath are also considerations which require some ingenuity and moderation to prevent untoward consequences !!
I hope the above helps you to find a way to further improve your state of health (and blood sugar monitoring is a great example of a feedback system is it not ?)
Contrary to any forming opinions I am not an engineer, but do dabble in making kites where balance, feedback, observation and "If all else fails use bl..dy big nails' are important principles.
 
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kitedoc

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,783
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
black jelly beans
I have been remiss in not fully reading your latest posts - great congratulations are in order.!!
You may wish to check with a dietician about whether your changed diet is replete in vitamins, minerals etc.
It is a pity that your migraines have increased in severity. Whether this is related to the change in your vision or weight loss etc or change in food choices or something else who knows.? I hope they settle back ti their original frequency or less asap.
And you may have a recipe book in the making !!
 

DCUKMod

Master
Staff Member
Messages
14,298
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi @PDR,
You are a worthy opponent of the Dragon called diabetes (whether you're battery powered or not) and humour IS the best medicine !!
You might wish to avail yourself of the forum on diabulimia (? spelling) which is about the insatiable hunger and resultant food intake problems that many of us have challenges with. I am not saying that is what you have but it may offer some insights !!
You mentioned whether to increase protein or fat: most protein contains fat anyway and I have read about hunger being a drive in humans to obtain sufficient protein: Thus if you only have pasta for food your body will cause you to consume enough to meet protein requirements (which is a lot of pasta and thus carbs and calories !) compared to say a menu with tempeh (refrigerated varieties are relatively low in salt), steak, yoghurt (and some varieties have higher protein values than others). Satiety is thus linked to protein intake, with of course, conditioning from our infancy to favourite foods, which not necessarily protein-rich but possibly carb or fat rich and flavoured.
Of course, refrigeration remains a challenge and others have contributed suggestions which I hope may bear fruit (oops, food in moderation!!) And in the 'good old days' with hunter-gatherer societies you would fit in well with the feast and famine cycle - and I mean no disrespect to the northeners !!
There are graphs about the role of protein in blood sugar formation also: apparently something like 50% of a adequate protein intake is converted to glucose with appears as a much (edit out less) more gentle rise in BSL (at least compared to carbs) at 4 + hours after consumption of the protein. So a way to perhaps interpret protein intake and metabolism (my own version, un-patented and purely conjectural, unlike engineering ;)) is that our bodies scoop up the amount of protein needed for enzymes systems, repair and maintenance) and 'decant ' (apologies to chemical engineers) the excess across to glucose formation. After all our brains run on glucose almost exclusively ! Of course there are practical limits on protein intake as our kidney filtration systems (great examples of engineering) have to handle the excess metabolites of protein.
In another part of the blood sugar/ insulin equation is insulin resistance - our body's level of sensitivity to the effects of insulin is governed by many things including our weight ( up weight above normal levels --> up insulin resistance as does stress (rushing out the door to catch a flight etc), lack of exercise (sitting for some time in airports, in planes, snowed in (apologies to northeners) etc. So exercising ( not too vigorously otherwise adrenaline causes release of stored glucose from the liver and ups the blood sugar), reducing weight ( less calories in, and yes people feel tired during this process), relaxation exercises maybe to reduce stress (plus humour , e.g. audiotapes of Monty Python etc etc), walking about in airports, ? parking some distance away from a destination so more walking is encouraged, a step machine at the hotel whilst watching the gentle snow falling) etc.
One other consideration about insulin resistance, well within your grasp, and I appeal to the chemical engineering part of your ? past ? present training for this - bowel bugs. It has been shown that there are more bugs in our bowels than cells in our bodies =- the composition of these bugs can alter our body's degree of resistance to insulin. I do not profess to be an expert in this area but I personally follow ( as a type 1 diabetic) the belief that foods with pro-biotic activity such as live culture yoghurts, tempeh, sauerkraut, kefir, taken as well as pre-biotics (bowel bug food) such as berries (in moderate), honey (in small amounts) dark chocolate in small amounts, leeks, onion, garlic, apples (in moderate), artichokes ( jerusulem and others( bottles in oil and acidic fluid keep out of the fridge) and others contain certain fibres that promote bowel bug health, lower insulin resistance and also help prevention constipation.
Of course production of gas and the smell of garlic on the breath are also considerations which require some ingenuity and moderation to prevent untoward consequences !!
I hope the above helps you to find a way to further improve your state of health (and blood sugar monitoring is a great example of a feedback system is it not ?)
Contrary to any forming opinions I am not an engineer, but do dabble in making kites where balance, feedback, observation and "If all else fails use bl..dy big nails' are important principles.

Kitedoc - I have to say I disagree with your apparent understanding of what diabulimia actually is, never mind that @PDR takes oral medication. Diabulimia is a portmanteau of diabetes and bulimia, and refers to an eating disorder in which people with type 1 diabetes deliberately give themselves less insulin than they need, or stop taking insulin altogether for the purpose of weight loss.

As you say, jumping in to respond to early posts on a long thread isn't always the best idea.
 

kitedoc

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,783
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
black jelly beans
Kitedoc - I have to say I disagree with your apparent understanding of what diabulimia actually is, never mind that @PDR takes oral medication. Diabulimia is a portmanteau of diabetes and bulimia, and refers to an eating disorder in which people with type 1 diabetes deliberately give themselves less insulin than they need, or stop taking insulin altogether for the purpose of weight loss.

As you say, jumping in to respond to early posts on a long thread isn't always the best idea.
Hi DCUK, Thank you for that correction - I meant to say eating disorders in general, such as can occur with T2D with hypoglycaemic episodes some 3 hours plus after meals.
Apart from that I do not believe the rest of the post was premature.
 

Jaz006

Well-Known Member
Messages
92
Geez I think if you stop eating everything then you will become ....! A few grapes every now and then won't kill you. Life is for living and all that. Please don't beat yourself up if you eat the odd thing that you / we are not supposed to eat. Otherwise you will fail and all the hard work you have put in will be undone. I think the trick to all of this is that you need to go at your own pace and you need to be realistic. Rome was not built in a day they say. Keep up the good work.
 

kitedoc

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,783
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
black jelly beans
Geez I think if you stop eating everything then you will become ....! A few grapes every now and then won't kill you. Life is for living and all that. Please don't beat yourself up if you eat the odd thing that you / we are not supposed to eat. Otherwise you will fail and all the hard work you have put in will be undone. I think the trick to all of this is that you need to go at your own pace and you need to be realistic. Rome was not built in a day they say. Keep up the good work.
Ha !! @Jaz006, Re: the building Rome saying: I remember a team of us trying to build something once and the leader saying "Well the ancient Egyptians could build it" to which the reply was "But we are not ancient Egyptians"! There is always someone ready to burst the balloon, but still we have to keep trying as best we can.
 
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PDR

Active Member
Messages
37
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Piers Morgan
Minor update.

Went away to Prague last week for the family holiday. Stayed in a rooftop apartment in the old town owned by the adjacent hotel (so free breakfast was included). Spent the week doing a lot of walking to stuff (including the tour of Terazin which is obligatory for those of us with family history there), which was knackering but good for me. I found that I could eat bacon/sausages, eggs and cheese as my "free" breakfast to set me up for the day, and then mainly just have evening meals with some almond grazing through the day. Carried on the BG testing routine and found my numbers stayed much the same except for the odd occasion when I did something silly (well you can't have proper bohemian braised beef without knedliky now can you - get real!). I found I could drink proper pilsner without bumping my numbers up, but the real place I struggled was the airport when the flight was delayed. I think they have a deliberate policy of killing-off diabetics to liberate seats by ensuring every food option is massively carb-loaded. Lost over half a stone since last report, so that's now two and a half stone in 4 months. I now find I can't risk wearing my jeans or shorts without a belt...

Anyway - the main point is that I found I could survive a normal family holiday with only minor accomodations, which is good to know. Got my 3-month review with the doc tomorrow, so the graph will get another outing. Prepare your yawns now...

PDR
 

PDR

Active Member
Messages
37
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Piers Morgan
Update...

No, don't worry - I'm not going to post another graph! Last week I gave the blood samples for my 3-month review. To save you searching back in the thread, in April my HbA1c was around 150mmol/mol, and at the end of June it was down to 58mmol/mol. I've been on one Metformin in the morning and another in the evening, and 1 glic before lunch and dinner (I don't eat breakfast). I've been focusing on a minimal sugar, minimal carb diet (no sweets or sugar, no fruit, no bread, no pasta, no rice, no potatoes, no pastry etc etc.). Mainly salads, meat and cheese with my only vice being coke zero in either cherry or vanilla flavours.

Well the result I've just had back says my HbA1c is now only 37mmol/mol, so at my DN review next week I'm expecting to be discussing backing off on the meds - certainly the glic, anyway. Part of me is tempted to just stop taking them and see what happens to my BG tests, but I'm not that reckless and wouldn't do it except on medical advice! I do wonder if I've managed to reboot my pancreas or something, because I have done the odd experiment. I had a pasty (which has pastry and potato), and it sent my BG rocketing from its typical pre-meal 5mmol/l up to 9.5mmol/l after an hour, but 30-60 minutes after that tyhe BG was back below 5 again. As an engineer this looks to me to be the response I'd expect - body is making insulin as required to digest the food intake or something. Is it possible to be "cured" or am I just being hopelessly optimistic?

PDR
 

Bluetit1802

Legend
Messages
25,216
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
You are doing amazingly well - congratulations. :)

However, the Gliclazide is forcing your pancreas to produce extra insulin, so until that is withdrawn you can't say if you are "cured" or not. You will have to wait and see what happens when you stop the Glic.

As for the word "cured", as yet there is no cure. All there is is remission (or reversal). That requires a few non-diabetic HbA1c results over a period of time, without medication. Too many pasties and watch out .... you could be back where you started. ;)
 

PDR

Active Member
Messages
37
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Piers Morgan
I might add that back in March I was just nudging 21 stone (in real money) and a side-effect of the diet change is that I'm now below 18 stone (still dropping). But I could probably lose another 2-3 stone before it became a source of concern!

PDR
 
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