The Beginning of the End.....

[ShellyC23]

Daibel
Thanks for reply, weight has decreased as I'm eating fewer carbs to try and keep my insulin down. I currently weigh 8st 8lb which is about one stone underweight for my height. So I'm trying not to lose any more weight which is difficult when you're eating very little carbs. Anything you can suggest to help?


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[elaine77]

Feeling rubbish this morning and I'm angry today so I am going to write to the DVLA about diabetics on sulfonylureas not having the 3 year license and questioning them on diabetics who do not need regular insulin injections as they are not insulin dependent. Not happy, things are changing and these "professional bodies" need to keep up! It's bad enough that I seem to know more about my condition than my DSN, it's about time they started learning about this disease more rather than making judgmental and discriminatory decisions! This is my rant for today lol.


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 22 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

 

[smidge]

Hi Elaine!

It is annoying that the rules around insulin use and driving are so draconian - they assume that we're all passing out all the time which is simply not true, so I can see why you feel aggrieved. However, the issue you face right now is what is the best method of managing your diabetes for you. Make sure you spend some time considering what you want next. Fighting with the DVLA doesn't take you forward I'm afraid.

Take care

Smidge

 

[elaine77]

Nope but it might make it a bit fairer at least


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 22 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

 

[equipoise]

Feeling rubbish this morning and I'm angry today so I am going to write to the DVLA about diabetics on sulfonylureas not having the 3 year license and questioning them on diabetics who do not need regular insulin injections as they are not insulin dependent. Not happy, things are changing and these "professional bodies" need to keep up! It's bad enough that I seem to know more about my condition than my DSN, it's about time they started learning about this disease more rather than making judgmental and discriminatory decisions! This is my rant for today lol.


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 22 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

Not that you're suggesting that diabetics on sulfonylureas should have the 3-year license, surely? Don't give the DVLA any more ideas...

 

[elaine77]

If people who need to take a little bit of insulin but aren't actually insulin dependent have to renew their license every 3 years then so should anyone on sulfonylureas as there is a hypo risk with those tablets too and when you consider the fact that many people who take sulfonylureas are type 2 diabetics and that many type 2 diabetics get their testing strips rationed (not that I agree with that) I would say that that makes them a HIGHER risk than insulin deficient LADAs such as me... I think it's logical and fair.


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 22 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

 

[equipoise]

If people who need to take a little bit of insulin but aren't actually insulin dependent have to renew their license every 3 years then so should anyone on sulfonylureas as there is a hypo risk with those tablets too and when you consider the fact that many people who take sulfonylureas are type 2 diabetics and that many type 2 diabetics get their testing strips rationed (not that I agree with that) I would say that that makes them a HIGHER risk than insulin deficient LADAs such as me... I think it's logical and fair.


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 22 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

Sorry Elaine, I don't want to sound blunt, but from what you say it looks like if you have to suffer then you want everyone else to suffer as well. I would strongly support your protest against having to have the 3-year license -- it certainly is unfair -- but not if you are trying to drag other diabetics down with you.

 

[elaine77]

Sorry but I think your looking at it the wrong way. Its not about dragging anyone down it's about being fair to all. It should be one rule for everyone, not discriminating rules against insulin users! The risk is hypos, not insulin usage, so either the DVLA stop discriminating against insulin users and allow them to have the same license as sulfonylurea users have or they make BOTH diabetic groups abide by the same licensing rules!! That's my opinion, I think it's fair and I'm sticking to it.


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 22 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

 

[equipoise]

I think we may just have to agree to differ - no harm in that. Good luck and take care.

 

[elaine77]

I guess so. But on this note I would also like to say that I would find it very hypocritical for any type 2 diabetic to insist they need testing strips as they take sulfonylureas and could have hypos, but then argue against also having a 3 year license due to the fact they may have hypos. Not directing this at anyone in particular, just anyone in general. Can't have ur cake and eat it aswell! Unless is was a sugar free cake of course....


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 22 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

 

[smidge]

I tried to tackle the DVLA concerning discrimination against insulin-using diabetics - I explained that as a well-controlled diabetic on a low-carb diet with very small doses of modern insulins and who understands how much active insulin I have on-board and therefore when my riskier times are, I am no more of a risk than a non-diabetic. As non-diabetics have HbA1cs in the 4s, they spend a considerable amount of their time with BGs in the 3s and are legally allowed to drive like that. I argued that it was therefore discriminatory to expect me to push my BGs up to unhealthy levels to satisfy their regulations and their flawed perception of the risk I pose. It fell on closed ears! They just responded that they are following guidelines set down by the EU and specialist doctors - experts in the field of diabetes - and that they worked closely with DUK in reaching the current legislation. I also asked for the statistics showing how many accidents have been caused by diabetic hypos in recent years - I received no response on that point. So I gave up - life's just too short for futile discussions with DVLA-like quangos unfortunately. I don't know how you influence the DVLA but I'm sure it isn't through writing to them with logical arguments.

Smidge

 

[noblehead]

I'm not surprised your reasoning failed Smidge, they would never accept that someone who is an insulin dependant diabetic doesn't pose a risk driving whilst having their bg is in the 3's, that would crazy IMHO!!!!

 

[elaine77]

If you submitted it as a freedom of information request they would have legally had to respond to you within 28 days with regard to accidents/bans resulting from diabetic hypos. They may stick by their reasoning that a diabetic with a risk of hypo is a risk to driving and therefore needs a 3 year license but il be damned if they don't apply the same reasoning to diabetics taking sulfonylureas. Like I say, it's more about fairness and safety than anything else and a hypo is a hypo regardless of how it is induced.

The only reasonable argument I can see is that some diabetics need to take 5 or 6 injections a day whereas tablets generally aren't taken as frequently, BUT, the operative word there is SOME diabetics and if they want to go down that route of argument then they are going to have to change the regulations depending on how frequently someone injects because, like I say, for all of us LADAs it would usually take a long time before we needed that many injections of insulin per day making us the same, if not lower, risk than diabetics on sulfonylureas.

We can but try to make our point. Maybe if more people make the point they will start to listen.


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 22 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

 

[smidge]

Noblehead - if you read my post properly you will see that I said most non-diabetics have their BG in the 3s for a large proportion of the time - not that I do! As you know, my HbA1c is 5.4 so my BG is mainly in the high 4s and low 5s - perfectly safe levels both for my health and everybody else on the road - just not for the DVLA who prefer me to damage my health to meet discriminatory regulations.

Elaine - I'd be interested in the response you get from DVLA.

Smidge

 

[Ian DP]

My understanding is, if you are on insulin you must (by law) check your blood sugar levels before driving, and not drive if below 5.0, and recheck every 2 hours. If this is the case why have the restriction of 3 year and 1 year licences with dr's ok. You could argue one or the other law is needed (to cover hypos) but why both?


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[smidge]

That's correct Ian. Someone told me the 3 year license is nothing to do with hypos (that is covered by the rule on testing and not driving below 5) it is actually because diabetes is seen as a progressive condition that will debilitate you (neuropathy and sight issues) and will eventually make you unfit to drive. The 3 year license is just a way to make sure you are medically assessed periodically to make sure you are fit to drive. This would also make no sense to me as the same would be true of non insulin-using diabetics. As I said in a previous post, there is no consistency or logic to any of the DVLA rules concerning diabetes - they simply don't stand up to scrutiny. It's just impossible to tackle them about it though.

Smidge

 

[Ian DP]

I wonder if this is british ruling or Enforced by the EU.


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[Thommothebear]

Its always down to the national government to enforce, often our civil service is rather overzealous compared to other EU countries.


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[noblehead]

My understanding is, if you are on insulin you must (by law) check your blood sugar levels before driving, and not drive if below 5.0, and recheck every 2 hours. If this is the case why have the restriction of 3 year and 1 year licences with dr's ok. You could argue one or the other law is needed (to cover hypos) but why both?

No Smidge I was hoping you didn't mean that it was safe to drive with bg numbers in the 3's as that would be rather foolish, it wasn't quite clear to me what you were trying to say as you were saying non-diabetics spend time in the 3's but you thought you were being discriminated against because the DVLA are wanting you to aim for higher levels........

IAs non-diabetics have HbA1cs in the 4s, they spend a considerable amount of their time with BGs in the 3s and are legally allowed to drive like that. I argued that it was therefore discriminatory to expect me to push my BGs up to unhealthy levels to satisfy their regulations and their flawed perception of the risk I pose.

I've obviously misread your post so I do apologise.

However, I don't personally have any grievance with the DVLA and think it is only right that a licence should be renewed every 1, 2 or 3 years, a lot of things can go wrong in this time and someone may lose their hypo awareness or have complications of the eyes or limbs, by requesting that you fill in a new application each time and completing the relevant medical questionaire they can best ascertain your ability to drive.

Yes it's a pain and mine is due this June so will have to fill in the forms again and no doubt do a field vision test, however by doing so I'm happy that they have assessed my ability to continue to drive over the next 3 years (hopefully) and maybe wrote to my HCP's to confirm the information that I'd given on the forms, it's all about keeping everyone safe on the roads and I certainly don't see it as discrimination regardless of what others may get away with.

 

[Sable_Jan]

Well it has been 14months since I was diagnosed with LADA and I have managed up until now with no medication increase, no insulin and just a lower GI carb diet... But the last week or so my morning fasting levels have risen from 7-8mmol to 9-10mmol and my post prandials have risen from 6-8mmol to 8-10mmol.... I fear more cells have now been killed and maybe it is time to have the "chat" with my consultant regarding insulin :-( they may suggest a larger dose of Metformin but I'm not sure how much of an effect it will have....


Diagnosed with GD in 2010, Completely disappeared postpartum. Re-diagnosed December 2012 with type 1.5 diabetes, age 26, BMI 22 currently controlled by only Metformin, 500mg twice a day.

Type 1.5? Heard of 1 and 2 but never 1.5 - what is this please? Not too hot on the abbreviations other than BS and I guess GD but could you tell me what LADA is too please
thanks
Jan