Times they are a changing!

[tonyS54]

[youtube]rDVf-00w5gk[/youtube]

 

[douglas99]

Cholesterol and I quote "it's a contributor"

As to the rest, not a single reference, no proof, no studies, just a few buzzwords like "oxidation", and "free radicals".
We all know trans fats are bad, and we all avoid them, but how does that prove saturated fats are good?
And the mediterranean diet certainly isn't a saturated fat diet, it's a "healthy" diet, not a heavy saturated fat diet.

Heavy shock journalism that spoils what could be a useful article.

I'm still aiming for good cholesterol numbers, by the book.

 

[SamJB]

I've not watched the clip sorry. My view on this debate is that it can't hurt to have lipid results within target ranges. Saying that, having high blood glucose levels is worse for you than high lipid levels so if you can only control your diabetes by having high lipid levels then you're doing well, in my opinion.

 

[fatbird]

At best the Jury is out regarding lipids. It is a fact elevated BG numbers effect negatively every tissue in the body.

FB

 

[Andy12345]

fantastic, i get my cholesterol down just in time to want to put it up lol :roll:

 

[douglas99]

It is a really interesting clip. It got me thinking and I would not agree with everything it is in there.

Firstly, about butter and margarine. As it is known, scientists have been changing their mind on this topic which option is better. It is because the answer is not simple. Currently dietitians realise that it cannot be said "eat butter" or "eat margarine" just like this. Why? Because it depends on your cholesterol level. If you are healthy and you are not at the risk of developing cardiovascular disease, the best option is to choose butter. Because margarine is full of trans-fatty acids and they are certainly very unhealthy. However, if your blood cholesterol level is already high, you should avoid butter and choose margarine in order to prevent further increase in LDL-cholesterol level.

The question appears if high cholesterol is really unhealthy? I agree with the statement that almost every cell has a lot of cholesterol, it is very important for hormone production as well as it plays a major role in transport through cell membrane. However, in here we are talking about HDL-cholesterol, not about LDL-cholesterol. We cannot say cholesterol is good or bad. We need to be specific. HDL-cholesterol is very important, but high LDL-cholesterol comes with some risks. As it was shown in the clip LDL-cholesterol is much bigger molecules than HDL. The simplest observation: if the blood vessel is narrow (for any reason, so I am not discussing here if cholesterol is really a trigger for artherosclersis), which molecule small or large will have a problem with smooth flow? Well, I think large molecule would cause problems and a large molecule is LDL-cholesterol.

What is more, there is further division of LDL particles. We have LDL1, LDL2, and LDL3. The LDL3 particles are the most atherogenic. These particles have low affinity for the LDL receptor which increases their residence time in the circulation for interaction with the arterial walls. They are particular at risk for oxidative damage. The oxidatively damages particles are easily taken up by macrophage scavenger receptors to begin the process of artherosclerosis. Moreover, LDL3 particle carry enzyme lipoprotein-associated phospholipase that have important role in artherosclerosis.

The next aspect I would mention is effect of cholesterol on gene regulation. Cholesterol has high affinity for SREBP. This is a binding protein in cell that stimulates production of lipid synthetic genes. Therefore, the largest amount of cholesterol we eat, the larger amount of genes responsible for fat accumulation. On the other hand, polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) have totally opposite effect. PUFAs increase production of genes responsible for usage of fatty acids, as well as decrease accumulation of fat. What is more, PUFAs improve insulin sensitivity in muscles and liver. Therefore, there is a clear evidence that eating PUFAs is beneficial for health. Maybe I am wrong, but I have never heard of study showing any benefit from eating cholesterol.

The key in here is that there are biological mechanisms supporting theory that eating PUFAs is good for us, while high level of LDL-cholesterol has negative effect on blood vessel functioning and fatty acids metabolism. It is not enough to have some observations while doing cardiovascular operations. This kind of evidence is at the lowest position in the hierarchy of evidences. Randomised controlled trials provide the most reliable evidences. This evidence must be supported by many studies, as well as it needs to be supported by biological mechanism. Then, we can say it is a good evidence.

I agree that marketing over-exaggerate many things but saying "cholesterol is not bad" is wrong as well.

Very interesting comments.

I'm currently, calories restricted, low/zero fat, and low carb by the calorie counting.
Losing weight steadily.
I'm going to avoid trans fats for life, and will also continue to restrict carbs, and also only eat ones that agree with me. Low GI.

I can't continue to lose weight, so eventually will need to up the calories.
At the moment, it's going to be protein, oily fish, lean steak, chicken, no processed meats, (but the odd rasher of bacon, and the odd burger), and some unsaturated fats, olive oil for salads, sunflower oil for cooking.
No eggs, no dairy, no saturated, (not absolute, just a general rule)
I want to lower my LDL, and raise HDL, what is your opinion?

 

[Andy12345]

do you have energy douglas? i mean low carbing zero fat, what does your body use to function?

 

[douglas99]

do you have energy douglas? i mean low carbing zero fat, what does your body use to function?

My stomach!
About 8 inches of it so far.

I feel fine tbh.
I also do quite a manual job, and same for hobbies.
But usually anaerobic type of work.

I felt hungry initially, but I am putting that down to being used to eating large portions.
After a while I got used to eating less, so I guess it is true your stomach does shrink.

I also combined it with joining the gym, I do tend to eat before I go though.
It's fresh veg, salad, tuna, very small amount low fat cheese, so there is some carbs, and some fat in there, and protein.
But no added fat to cook with, just whatever is present in the food itself, and I get carbs from the veg.
So it's low carb based on the calorie count, and certainly low fat, on the same criteria, but many days have been near enough zero fat as I often eat vegetarian.

It's not sustainable, as I'm always in a net deficit on calories, hence my quest to change my diet to bring it back to around 2000 calories.

 

[Andy12345]

interesting mate, i thought i had to eat fat for energy, which i do and im fine on that front, i just thought i had to

 

[fatbird]

The Benefits of Saturated Fats

The much-maligned saturated fats—which Americans are trying to avoid—are not the cause of our modern diseases. In fact, they play many important roles in the body chemistry:
Saturated fatty acids constitute at least 50% of the cell membranes. They are what gives our cells necessary stiffness and integrity.
They play a vital role in the health of our bones. For calcium to be effectively incorporated into the skeletal structure, at least 50% of the dietary fats should be saturated.38
They lower Lp(a), a substance in the blood that indicates proneness to heart disease.39 They protect the liver from alcohol and other toxins, such as Tylenol.40
They enhance the immune system.41
They are needed for the proper utilization of essential fatty acids.
Elongated omega-3 fatty acids are better retained in the tissues when the diet is rich in saturated fats. 42
Saturated 18-carbon stearic acid and 16-carbon palmitic acid are the preferred foods for the heart, which is why the fat around the heart muscle is highly saturated.43 The heart draws on this reserve of fat in times of stress.
Short- and medium-chain saturated fatty acids have important antimicrobial properties. They protect us against harmful microorganisms in the digestive tract.
The scientific evidence, honestly evaluated, does not support the assertion that "artery-clogging" saturated fats cause heart disease.44 Actually, evaluation of the fat in artery clogs reveals that only about 26% is saturated. The rest is unsaturated, of which more than half is polyunsaturated.45

http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-f ... s#benefits

FB

 

[douglas99]

interesting mate, i thought i had to eat fat for energy, which i do and im fine on that front, i just thought i had to

I read your figures, someone quoted them in another post, and they're brilliant

Hba1c 36
Triglicerides 0.7
hdl ratio 2.8

I want my triglicerides down there, currently 1
and my ratio is 2.7,
My targets are
HDL, over 1.6, currently 1.1
LDL less than 1.6, currently 3.0


If you don't mind me asking, what is your LDL/HDL?

 

[Kat100]

I don't eat fat, I aim for low fat, reduced fat, low, medium carbs, smaller portions, and a veggie diet.....
Slow steady weight loss.....it's all interesting, and we are all so different.....always lots to think about....

 

[douglas99]

The Benefits of Saturated Fats

The much-maligned saturated fats—which Americans are trying to avoid—are not the cause of our modern diseases. In fact, they play many important roles in the body chemistry:
Saturated fatty acids constitute at least 50% of the cell membranes. They are what gives our cells necessary stiffness and integrity.
They play a vital role in the health of our bones. For calcium to be effectively incorporated into the skeletal structure, at least 50% of the dietary fats should be saturated.38
They lower Lp(a), a substance in the blood that indicates proneness to heart disease.39 They protect the liver from alcohol and other toxins, such as Tylenol.40
They enhance the immune system.41
They are needed for the proper utilization of essential fatty acids.
Elongated omega-3 fatty acids are better retained in the tissues when the diet is rich in saturated fats. 42
Saturated 18-carbon stearic acid and 16-carbon palmitic acid are the preferred foods for the heart, which is why the fat around the heart muscle is highly saturated.43 The heart draws on this reserve of fat in times of stress.
Short- and medium-chain saturated fatty acids have important antimicrobial properties. They protect us against harmful microorganisms in the digestive tract.
The scientific evidence, honestly evaluated, does not support the assertion that "artery-clogging" saturated fats cause heart disease.44 Actually, evaluation of the fat in artery clogs reveals that only about 26% is saturated. The rest is unsaturated, of which more than half is polyunsaturated.45

http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-f ... s#benefits

FB

You should read the summary

"In summary, our choice of fats and oils is one of extreme importance. Most people, especially infants and growing children, benefit from more fat in the diet rather than less. But the fats we eat must be chosen with care. Avoid all processed foods containing newfangled hydrogenated fats and polyunsaturated oils. Instead, use traditional vegetable oils like extra virgin olive oil and small amounts of unrefined flax seed oil. Acquaint yourself with the merits of coconut oil for baking and with animal fats for occasional frying. Eat egg yolks and other animal fats with the proteins to which they are attached. And, finally, use as much good quality butter as you like, with the happy assurance that it is a wholesome—indeed, an essential—food for you and your whole family."

I'm not an infant, and not growing, (trying for the opposite in fact)
hydrogenated oils indeed are a poor choice.
olive oil, definite yes.
animal fats for occasional frying
other fats with the proteins, (not alone, and with protein advised)
So, apart from butter, (?) moderation, and restraint.

And then, the report was from 13 years ago.


You didn't mention your cholesterol, Would I be right in guessing you have elevated LDL figures?

 

[douglas99]

I don't eat fat, I aim for low fat, reduced fat, low, medium carbs, smaller portions, and a veggie diet.....
Slow steady weight loss.....it's all interesting, and we are all so different.....always lots to think about....

What's your plan when you hit your target weight?

 

[Kat100]

Well I have always been veggie and used to have soya spread, the weight came on before I was diagnosed...3 stones for no reason I thought, nearly lost 3 stones now in one year, want to loose one more than I will look like me again, when I reach my target wright I could have a cake desperate.....

 

[Kat100]

Sorry that's weight , words jumping .....

 

[mrman]

Sorry that's weight , words jumping .....

That's because you was thinking of cakes lol.

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[douglas99]

Well I have always been veggie and used to have soya spread, the weight came on before I was diagnosed...3 stones for no reason I thought, nearly lost 3 stones now in one year, want to loose one more than I will look like me again, when I reach my target wright I could have a cake desperate.....

I need to lose 1 more too, I'm not veggie, but eat little meat now, I'm just trying to work out what to eat to maintain my weight, (never though I'd say that, )

 

[Kat100]

I think it's more exercise for me.......for weight loss

And yes I am always thinking of cakes

 

[Andy12345]

I read your figures, someone quoted them in another post, and they're brilliant

Hba1c 36
Triglicerides 0.7
hdl ratio 2.8

I want my triglicerides down there, currently 1
and my ratio is 2.7,
My targets are
HDL, over 1.6, currently 1.1
LDL less than 1.6, currently 3.0


If you don't mind me asking, what is your LDL/HDL?

ill list them as im not totally sure....
HbA1c 36mmol/mol (20 - 48)
Serum cholesterol 3.1 mmol/L (2.0 - 5.0)
Serum triglycerides 0.7 mmol/L (0.5 - 2.0)
Serum HDL cholesterol level" 1.1 mmol/L (1.1 - 2.2)
Calculated LDL cholesterol lev" 1.7 mmol/L (1.0 - 3.0)
Serum cholesterol/HDL ratio" 2.8 ratio (2.0 - 5.0)

i think the numbers in brackets and the normal range the numbers should be on
then it goes onto a load of other stuff i dont know anything about Urea and electrolytes etc