Transition to real food post newcastle diet

[AndBreathe]

I really don't want to start the downward spiral of more and more drugs. I take metformin and statins and was put on another drug after a couple of months. However, being a scientist I had to research it when I had the time and once I did I took myself off it the same day and made an appointment to see my DN. She was unaware of the research paper I took to show her so I gave it to her; she didn't try to persuade me to restart taking it; in fact she said she she would bring it up at her next diabetic meeting. Hence why, despite being underweight since I cut the carbs (I was a healthy weight before then) I want to do the ND so that I can hopefully start to eat more normally without my BG going way too high with all the side effects that will give me.

Sadly my husband will not modify his diet in any way; I wish he would as his diet is appalling, I would not eat a lot of it even if I wasn't diabetic! He worked away until recently but now he is home he will only eat what he wants to and refuses to eat more healthily and drink less.

My only comment to you would be to ask you to consider how you could feel about living your life even lighter and thinner than you are now? If you have not yet reached your PFT, then how low is it (rhetorical question)? But, at least as importantly, it is my understanding that regaining weight lost is likely to lead to a rediagnosis, and all that effort would have been to no avail.

Perhaps your pancreatic/beta cell functionality are quite impaired?

Although I have stated that if it ever became necessary I would accept taking medication in order to continue my quality of like. There are definitely a couple of drugs I would really rather not take, but if I was in that corner maybe they would be the lesser of the available evils. Curiously, one of our friends overseas' daughter is a medical research scientist who did work on some popular, and successful diabetes medications. I didn't know this until quite a while after diagnosis, when her mother asked what meds I was taking, because she was hoping it wasn't what she had worked on, because of some of the longer term potentials.

But, for each of us, these are decisions based on more than scientific papers, often.

 

[Arab Horse]

My only comment to you would be to ask you to consider how you could feel about living your life even lighter and thinner than you are now? If you have not yet reached your PFT, then how low is it (rhetorical question)? But, at least as importantly, it is my understanding that regaining weight lost is likely to lead to a rediagnosis, and all that effort would have been to no avail.

Perhaps your pancreatic/beta cell functionality are quite impaired?

Although I have stated that if it ever became necessary I would accept taking medication in order to continue my quality of like. There are definitely a couple of drugs I would really rather not take, but if I was in that corner maybe they would be the lesser of the available evils. Curiously, one of our friends overseas' daughter is a medical research scientist who did work on some popular, and successful diabetes medications. I didn't know this until quite a while after diagnosis, when her mother asked what meds I was taking, because she was hoping it wasn't what she had worked on, because of some of the longer term potentials.

But, for each of us, these are decisions based on more than scientific papers, often.

I will answer each of your points:

1) I realise that it may take a while to slowly regain the weight lost but I will have to do it with a diet high in fats and as I like nuts, cream, etc and have now got used to full fat Greek yoghurt it will not be impossible. I am hoping that, Like Richard Doughty, I will not have to stay on the diet for the full eight weeks. He saw reversal after 11 days, it wasn't clear whether he stopped the diet then or continued.

2) I realise that my beta cells may not respond to the diet but I won't know if I don't try. I really don't feel that I have anything to lose. Despite being thin I was not thin before diagnosis but lost weight by cutting the carbs not the CALORIES which is the key to reversal according to my understanding of Prof. Taylor's research. He states that it is the sudden severe calorie restriction rather than just weight loss. I also ate late in the evening and then was up very early so didn't have the required 12 - 14 hour fasts regularly. I will bve changing that too.

3) I would rather live with the very restricted diet than with the consequences of the drug I was prescribed or the long term effects of uncontrolled diabetes. Your comment about your friend's daughter who is a medical research scientist who did work on some popular, and successful diabetes medications is exactly why I am against many of the drugs out there. Could you message me with the drug as if I do actually have to eventually accept that I need another drug it would be useful to know which one to avoid. At the moment with my severe diet restrictions I am able to keep my glucose at reasonable levels but I do have the occasional thing that is not good. The thing I miss most is being able to eat fruit, I would love to go back to adding more fruit to my diet and I will never believe that it bad for you (unless you in my position, of course)!

 

[AndBreathe]

I will answer each of your points:

1) I realise that it may take a while to slowly regain the weight lost but I will have to do it with a diet high in fats and as I like nuts, cream, etc and have now got used to full fat Greek yoghurt it will not be impossible. I am hoping that, Like Richard Doughty, I will not have to stay on the diet for the full eight weeks. He saw reversal after 11 days, it wasn't clear whether he stopped the diet then or continued.

2) I realise that my beta cells may not respond to the diet but I won't know if I don't try. I really don't feel that I have anything to lose. Despite being thin I was not thin before diagnosis but lost weight by cutting the carbs not the CALORIES which is the key to reversal according to my understanding of Prof. Taylor's research. He states that it is the sudden severe calorie restriction rather than just weight loss. I also ate late in the evening and then was up very early so didn't have the required 12 - 14 hour fasts regularly. I will bve changing that too.

3) I would rather live with the very restricted diet than with the consequences of the drug I was prescribed or the long term effects of uncontrolled diabetes. Your comment about your friend's daughter who is a medical research scientist who did work on some popular, and successful diabetes medications is exactly why I am against many of the drugs out there. Could you message me with the drug as if I do actually have to eventually accept that I need another drug it would be useful to know which one to avoid. At the moment with my severe diet restrictions I am able to keep my glucose at reasonable levels but I do have the occasional thing that is not good. The thing I miss most is being able to eat fruit, I would love to go back to adding more fruit to my diet and I will never believe that it bad for you (unless you in my position, of course)!

You miss my point. It is my belief that when you breach your PFT, on a downward basis, it it critical not to regain the weight. This was confirmed to me, by Professor Taylor, by email. His email states, "....the critical matter is to avoid weight gain in the long term...." So, I do not believe that regaining the weight you lose is likely to bring about a happy outcome. Of course, I may be misinterpreting Professor Taylor's words, but his messaging was pretty simple and straightforward.

 

[brettsza]

Week 5 off the ND
Weight gained another half a kilo so in all gained about 2 kilos since coming off nd.
I have to take the blame for it as exercise has gone down and carbs have gone up. My BG's have remained the same below 5.5 at all times and ranging from 4.5 to 5.5 before meals after meals 1 hour and 2 hours.
I did have a few days this week when I took upto 300 to 400g carbs, which included rice, pizza, potatoes and even normal ice cream but my levels remained ok.
I had my carb meal (Rice) on sunday for dinner and then yesterday I was strict low carbing, fasting for 16 hours and two very low carb meals and I was 4.5 yesterday before dinner and 4.9 after 2 hours, 4.8 fasting. So after a week of high carb when I switched to low carb, the levels got into 4's.
I also see a patter that no matter what I eat high carbs or low I always remain in the 4.5 to 5.5 window. Probably the reason I took up carbs last week in excess, but back on lchf.
I really need to start the exercise back again and hoping to report a loss of 1 kilo atleast by next week, unfortunately I dont loose weight on LCHF alone.
I am still fitting into my size 30 trouser, it used to be loose and I knew I will fit easily into 28, that has just got slightly more comfortable, but I am definitely not buying bigger trousers. Its been a lot of hard work to get here and dont want to undo it.

 

[Wildrover]

Week 5 off the ND
Weight gained another half a kilo so in all gained about 2 kilos since coming off nd.
I have to take the blame for it as exercise has gone down and carbs have gone up. My BG's have remained the same below 5.5 at all times and ranging from 4.5 to 5.5 before meals after meals 1 hour and 2 hours.
I did have a few days this week when I took upto 300 to 400g carbs, which included rice, pizza, potatoes and even normal ice cream but my levels remained ok.
I had my carb meal (Rice) on sunday for dinner and then yesterday I was strict low carbing, fasting for 16 hours and two very low carb meals and I was 4.5 yesterday before dinner and 4.9 after 2 hours, 4.8 fasting. So after a week of high carb when I switched to low carb, the levels got into 4's.
I also see a patter that no matter what I eat high carbs or low I always remain in the 4.5 to 5.5 window. Probably the reason I took up carbs last week in excess, but back on lchf.
I really need to start the exercise back again and hoping to report a loss of 1 kilo atleast by next week, unfortunately I dont loose weight on LCHF alone.
I am still fitting into my size 30 trouser, it used to be loose and I knew I will fit easily into 28, that has just got slightly more comfortable, but I am definitely not buying bigger trousers. Its been a lot of hard work to get here and dont want to undo it.

Really great figures Brettsza, ......Lucky sod

 

[Arab Horse]

Brettsza said "I am still fitting into my size 30 trouser, it used to be loose and I knew I will fit easily into 28, that has just got slightly more comfortable, but I am definitely not buying bigger trousers. Its been a lot of hard work to get here and dont want to undo it."
This is how I have controlled my weight all my adult life: sadly for me it didn't prevent my getting T2 diabetes! I am now changing the lifestyle and diet to try and change things.

 

[brettsza]

I struggle a lot with my weight, I am doing LCHF with 16:8 IF and still gaining bit by bit. Hopefully I will be able to stop it as I just cant seem to loose weight, may be i have some problem I dont know.

 

[AndBreathe]

I struggle a lot with my weight, I am doing LCHF with 16:8 IF and still gaining bit by bit. Hopefully I will be able to stop it as I just cant seem to loose weight, may be i have some problem I dont know.

How much have you gained, over how long? Professor Taylor states he expects a modest weight gain when subject start back to more n

 

[brettsza]

How much have you gained, over how long? Professor Taylor states he expects a modest weight gain when subject start back to more n

Hi Andbreathe

I have gained a total of 2 kilos in 5 weeks, I slowly introduced carbs last week to see the effects on bg. That could be the culprit too but 2 kilos in 5 weeks is the figure at the moment.

 

[AndBreathe]

Hi Andbreathe

I have gained a total of 2 kilos in 5 weeks, I slowly introduced carbs last week to see the effects on bg. That could be the culprit too but 2 kilos in 5 weeks is the figure at the moment.

Two kilos isn't a significant or material gain, although I can completely understand how you don't want to gain.

Do you have any idea how your body actually works these days? Most people who are eating a varied diet will find their weight fluctuates a bit on a day to day basis, and I see this myself these days. For example, if I have a particularly Everest like mountain of veg with my evening meal, if I weighed next morning, my weight could rise, as my body deals with that, probably moderating again by the next day. My OH is non-diabetic, slim and fit, and eats extremely well. His weight fluctuates by 4-5lbs longer term. Obviously, if he has several pig-out sessions over just a few days, he might gain fat, but it usually drops off again as he just gets on with his life.

I'd urge you to consider a weight range you will happily run in, as you have probably learned to do with your bloods.

 

[Wildrover]

I struggle a lot with my weight, I am doing LCHF with 16:8 IF .

Hi Brettza,
Can understand the LCHF ........But what's the 16:8 IF ?? Pretty please

 

[brettsza]

16:8 Intermittent Fasting
So i fast for 16 hours and eat two meals in 8 hours.
I skip breakfast so not that difficult
2 meals are LCHF most of the times. Only introduced carbs last week.
Last night was really naughty as had a massive piece of choc cake i am sure that was not LC but definitely HF

 

[andcol]

Just to let you know my weight fluctuates up and down week on week by up to 8 lbs depending on many factors so just set yourself an upper limit and do not worry if you are below that

 

[Wildrover]

16:8 Intermittent Fasting
So i fast for 16 hours and eat two meals in 8 hours.
I skip breakfast so not that difficult
2 meals are LCHF most of the times. Only introduced carbs last week.
Last night was really naughty as had a massive piece of choc cake i am sure that was not LC but definitely HF

Thanks, choc cake, I like

 

[brettsza]

Just to let you know my weight fluctuates up and down week on week by up to 8 lbs depending on many factors so just set yourself an upper limit and do not worry if you are below that

Thanks for the suggestion Andrew, will definitely keep this in mind and hopefully in a few weeks be able to decide what range should I be at in terms of weight.

 

[brettsza]

Week 6 off nd
Weight stable, actually lost .3 kilos but it could be any number of factors.
I did have a day of carb binge again this week fish and chips, cakes, cheese puffs, tea with real sugar but bg behaved. Back to lchf with IF on other days.
Figures have mostly been from low 4's to early 5's but haven't seen more than 5.3 unless I am missing the peaks although I try to do 1 and 2 hour readings and I did 3 and 4 hours too after fish and chips and all behaved. I have started a bit of exercise again. Planning to get HIT underway else normal exercise is ok.

 

[Arab Horse]

Week 6 off nd
Weight stable, actually lost .3 kilos but it could be any number of factors.
I did have a day of carb binge again this week fish and chips, cakes, cheese puffs, tea with real sugar but bg behaved. Back to lchf with IF on other days.
Figures have mostly been from low 4's to early 5's but haven't seen more than 5.3 unless I am missing the peaks although I try to do 1 and 2 hour readings and I did 3 and 4 hours too after fish and chips and all behaved. I have started a bit of exercise again. Planning to get HIT underway else normal exercise is ok.

That is great news. Don't spoil all the good work by falling off the wagon too often. It must be lovely to have a "binge" sometimes. When I go out I have to stick to straight and narrow and watch others eating what I would love to have, don't even eat with my husband as he refuses to change his diet in any way and what he cooks is not suitable for me so we now cook our own meals and take turns in the kitchen.

 

[brettsza]

That is great news. Don't spoil all the good work by falling off the wagon too often. It must be lovely to have a "binge" sometimes. When I go out I have to stick to straight and narrow and watch others eating what I would love to have, don't even eat with my husband as he refuses to change his diet in any way and what he cooks is not suitable for me so we now cook our own meals and take turns in the kitchen.

Hi Arabhorse
Yeah I should not binge too often, I usually have a very strict low carb regime, like yesterday breakfast was black coffee, lunch was cauli rice with beef and dinner was pork burgers without bun, salad and broccoli and spinach soup.
My usual meal is either an omlette or calui rice ( I was not a fan of it but made it to my taste and now I love it) and I have meats could be chicken, fish, pork, lamb or beef on a bed of salad most of the days. So usual days arabout 20g carbs. But these binges ruin it, I have another weekend when I might have to eat a bit more of carb as it's a birthday of my friend's son so already reducing all carbs as much as I can and exercising.

 

[Arab Horse]

If your BS levels are fine after a "binge" seems the occasional one is fine for you; well done to be where you are and I sincerely hope you manage to stay there but you sound as if you will. Very pleased for you.

 

[andcol]

Just for a comparison for you @brettsza 5.1 before a plate of Shepherd's pie and 5.2 at 2 hours so you are seeing very similar results to me