What is happerning when i get that hunger feeling.

Graham55

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101
Hi all.
I was told last september that i am T2, ok i`ve done all i was told and seem to be under control.
My mum asked what is happerning when i get that realy hungey feeling, she is 82 and cares.
I found i could not explain what was happerning inside me and why i had to eat, Could anyone explain it in a way she , oh and me might understand.
 

fergus

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1,439
Type of diabetes
Type 1
I'll have a go.
Everyone has heard of insulin, but assumes diabetics have problems because they simply don't make enough of their own, or it doesn't work properly anymore.
Type 2 diabetics in fact actually typically produce far too much, certainly in the early stges after diagnosis. This is because they are resistant to its effects and must produce more to keep blood sugar levels under control.
Insulin does more than simply keep blood sugar levels down though. It promotes fat storage and stimulates hunger too. Excess insulin creates a hormone driven urge to eat (hunger) and simultaneously makes it more likely that the food eaten will be turned to fat.
You will become less hungry by reducing your insulin levels. As a type 2 this can only be done by eating foods which need little insulin, and avoiding the foods which need a lot.
In the first category are meat, fish, cheese, eggs, dairy foods and green vegetables. In the second category are sweet, sugary foods and starches such as breads, pasta, rice and potatoes.
Some find it hard to accept that eating less of these starchy foods will actually lead to less hunger. If you give it a go, you will be very pleasantly surprised.

All the best,

fergus
 

hanadr

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Fergus, you have answered a question which I didn't ask.
I'm a type 2, who decided a while ago that despite what my doctor says "progression" isn't inevitable, so I've guarded my pancreas for 5 years by tight control, lately, by low carb. I still use the Metformin, but my use of insulin secretologues has stopped.
The question you answered is "why am I never truly hungry?" I eat sparingly anyway and nowadays it's little carb.
the question you didn't answer is "why am I not skinny?" I have lost about 17.5 kg in a year, but I'm stuck there. Not lost enough to justify spending big money on a new wardrobe, but had to give away loads of GOOD clothes.
You'd be amazed at the quality of Brand New clothes, I've found in my local charity shop.
These last couple of weeks, I've found a pair of M&S trousers and a Ben Sherman jumper in my size.
I need to find homes for a beautiful pure silk, August silks suit and a wool Hardy Amies one. they were too expensive to go to "Help the aged"
 

DiabeticGeek

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309
Graham55 said:
My mum asked what is happening when i get that realy hungry feeling.
That is a really interesting question that exercises the minds of many nutritional researchers. I am afraid the answer is not at all clearcut - hunger is probably the result of a mixture of different cues - physiological, neurological, physical and emotional. I'm not an expert in this area, and it is a bit complicated, but I will try to explain what I do know of it.

The physiological parts of this are that hunger is - to a great extent - controlled by the interactions of a number of different hormones. Insulin is one of these, and although it is true that increased levels of insulin can be associated with hunger it is simplistic to say that this causes hunger. After all, if that were the case then untreated Type 1 diabetics (who have low and falling insulin levels) would not feel hungry - whereas in fact extreme hunger is sometimes a symptom of diabetes. The thing about hormones is that they often interact with each other in quite complex ways to regulate the body - kind of like the way that cruise control in a car links various sensors to the throttle to maintain a constant speed.

The current view of the physiology of hunger is that there are at least four hormones involved in this: leptin, ghrelin, insulin and cortisol (there are probably more, this whole area is still not very well understood). Leptin is produced by fatty tissues and monitors the overall nutritional status of the body. When you eat, an increase in blood glucose causes fat cells to release leptin, which acts directly upon the brain to make you less hungry. Leptin also reduces the production of ghrelin. Ghrelin is produced by cells lining the stomach, and it is thought that the main purpose of this is to directly regulate the hunger response. Ghrelin acts upon the brain to make you hungry. Since leptin is released after eating that reduces hunger by inhibiting ghrelin. As the leptin effect fades away several hours after eating, then more ghrelin is produced and that initiates hunger. That is a neat story, but it is unfortunately a simplification. Insulin has various effects over and above the glucose regulation that we are all familiar with. One of these effects is that it modifies the effect that ghrelin has upon the brain (as does leptin). Cortisol is another hormone that is involved with this. Cortisol is produced by the adrenal gland and is heavily involved in the stress response, and in the regulation of sleep patterns. Leptin turns on a set of events that lead to cortisol production, and ghrelin turns it off. This is why both the time of day and stress can also effect the hunger response. Cortisol also has an effect on glucose regulation - roughly the opposite effect that insulin has (it increases blood glucose levels), and it is also involved in various brain functions - which means that the brain not only responds to hunger, but it has a role in regulating it. It is quite well known that people on low carbohydrate diets tend to feel less hungry than people on high carbohydrate diets, and there has recently been some research published that high protein low carbohydrate diets cause a reduced ghrelin production, which probably explains this.

So much for the physiology. There is also a simple physical aspect to hunger in that there are nerves that sense when the stomach is empty, and they cause a sensation of hunger. In a famous experiment hungry volunteers were persuaded to swallow an inflatable balloon. When this was inflated in their stomachs they stopped feeling hungry. However, this is only a part of the explanation for hunger (people who don't have a stomach at all can still feel hungry).

Because of the involvement of the brain with all this, there it is also quite likely that there is a psychological aspect to hunger. It may well be that some components of the hunger response is "learned", which is why psychological techniques like hypnosis and neuro-linguistic programming can help some people to curb hunger and loose weight.

Sorry if this seems a bit complicated, it is because biology is like that! A short version of this answer might be as follows... When you get hungry it is because your brain has concluded that you are hungry as a result of various signals that come from a complex dance of interacting hormones, as well as the fact that your stomach is physically empty. This is all subject to various other issues like the time of day and your overall level of stress. Because this is all being filtered by the brain, there is also the scope for psychological factors fouling it all up.

If you want to know more then Google Scholar is your friend! Believe it or not, I find this sort of stuff fun 8). These days I am mostly a computer geek, but the real geeks are biologists!
 

DiabeticGeek

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309
hanadr said:
The question you answered is "why am I never truly hungry?" I eat sparingly anyway and nowadays it's little carb.

You might be interested in the following paper:

Foster-Schubert, K.E. et al (2008). Acyl and Total Ghrelin Are Suppressed Strongly by Ingested Proteins, Weakly by Lipids, and Biphasically by Carbohydrates. Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 93(5) 1971-1979.

This is a clinical trial (albeit a small one) that provides quite convincing evidence that low carbohydrate and high protein diets can suppress the ghrelin response and hence reduce hunger. This has often been reported anecdotally but, to the best of my knowledge, this is the first time anyone has demonstrated some hard physiology.

hanadr said:
the question you didn't answer is "why am I not skinny?"
Hmm... tricky. I don't have such an easy answer to that one. My guess is that the problem is that one of the main purposes of this whole hunger regulation system is to prevent weight loss. From a biological point of view, fat is really useful insurance against possible future starvation. If anyone is actually on a starvation diet, then they will loose their fat very rapidly (not that I would recommend that!). The trick with weight loss diets (be they low carb or any other approach) is to fool this whole regulatory system so that it thinks the body is being starved and needs to mobilize fat, without actually having to endure the hardship or danger of starvation. This can be done, but it is quite tricky - especially so since the system that you are trying to fool is so complex.
 

TROUBR

Well-Known Member
Messages
203
Type of diabetes
Type 1
hanadr said:
I need to find homes for a beautiful pure silk, August silks suit and a wool Hardy Amies one. they were too expensive to go to "Help the aged"

How about an auction site such as ebay? People sell all sorts of clothes on there, never done it myself (only bought stuff so far) but possibly your best route.

Louise
 

Graham55

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101
Great idear selling things on-line, what about Diabetes.co.uk selling cheeper blood testing strips?????.
Graham T2 for a year.
 

hanadr

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Selling BG strips in a co-op type way would be brilliant. Which meter would we all get? Could we get a deal from a manufacturer? Would we find ourselves in court because we'd broken some NHS monopoly?
 

Graham55

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101
The NHS dont make or sell strips so no probs there, As there not drugs cant see any probs with that either.It`s just another product with a lot of profit for chemists.
Graham T2 for a year.