What is the dawn phenomenon? How can I get my bg down

Sugarbaby123

Active Member
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29
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
Can’t seem to lower my fasting bg despite low carb the day before. Tried drinking more water before bed- don’t - was up three times ‍♀️ Then a carb meal at bedtime- porridge, bg was10.
Any hints to manage this please?
 

catinahat

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In response to certain hormones our liver releases some of its stored glucose into the bloodstream. It's a natural process that everyone experiences, it's purpose is to provide us with a little fuel to start the day. It can happen at anytime your body feels that you need some extra energy, when you exercise or if you are stressed, even if you haven't eaten in a while. So it's not really a phenomenon and it doesn't only happen at dawn and I doubt if it's possible to stop your body doing something it's evolved to do.
Fasting numbers are usually the last to come down, all you can really do is concentrate on keeping your carbs down and reduce your daytime levels. Eventually the amount of glucose you have stored away should diminish and your fasting numbers improve.
Then a carb meal at bedtime- porridge
Don't understand what your reasoning was here ? Carbs will not improve your levels at anytime of the day and at bedtime you have no way to use up those carbs so they will get stored away as glucose or fat
 
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Mbaker

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My experience has been a little nuanced to what most of us tend to believe and follow, although the inference that over time fbg will come down does ring true and this might be the key. I agree that fasting numbers can be the last to come down.

I was getting numbers of around 5.4 and wondering how some were getting low 4's, sometimes late 3's. I was working out hard with cardio and eating real food low carb / keto. One of these things got my fbg lower:
  1. Removed Oats completely (direct correlation to drop in HbA1c)
  2. Increased resistance / weight training, reduced cardio
  3. Time and consistency
  4. Reduction in additional fat
I am not sure if there is a magic bullet. It might be residual insulin resistance that can keep fbg high.
The removing of any unnecessary carbs is an obvious win. The resistance / weight training is a proven glucose sink, with more surface area to independently of insulin uptake glucose. Time is probably a pareto item; "we" took decades to get IR /diabetes, it might take months or years of consistently doing the right things to regain low numbers - but in-between health still is improving. The reduction in fat is espoused by Dr Ted Naiman. His view is that the "extra" fat some do on low carb / keto produces increased glucose (from memory) 10 - 12 hours later. I think for some this true....not popular to say, but there is a reason why Dr David Unwin tends to exclude "high fat" from low carb, and I don't think this is just the politics. Dr Eric Westman says not to add extra fat on top of the fat the real foods come with. In short if you are having cheeses, creams maybe reduce these, for steaks, fish etc maybe go easy on the butter.

I go for a holistic approach with self experimentation - my current experiment, which was interrupted by severe Covid is muscle and protein centric Ketovore. On a normal day fbg is 4.4, on a bad day (can't get out to walk or do resistance) 4.7 and on an optimised day 3.8 - 4.1.
 
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D

Deleted member 543160

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I take the attitude that since my liver decides whether or not I need an "automatic breakfast" I just let it get on with it, and look after my meal time glucose levels instead. This has served i me in good stead for my 8+ years since T2 diagnosis, and my morning levels don't appear to have much if any impact on my overall low pre-diabetic - high normal HbA1c results.

One thing I have found though, is that if I keep my carbs low enough and am therefore mainly burning fats (which are a more steady sustainable form of fuel) rather than relying on quick fix carbs, my liver is less likely to dump a bit of extra breakfast glucose on me.
 
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Sugarbaby123

Active Member
Messages
29
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Thank you all for your replies. I appreciate your help. I’m doing low carb diet, keeping to under 50g a day. My post meal sugars are 5-7,and I’m losing weight slowly. I learned my lesson with the porridge and won’t repeat it ;)
I’m starting back morning swimming and will check my blood when I get home pre breakfast. I take your point Robbity2 as I’m a couple of months into Type 2 and I’ll concentrate on my glucose after meals.
 
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Lainie71

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The term "big boned" lol repeatedly told this growing up!
If I have corned beef slice with lettuce (like a sandwich), before bed my bg levels are in the 6 region. If I have nothing before bed its higher in the morning.
 
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M

Member496333

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This is what I did...

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/eat-to-the-meter-or-play-the-long-game.160371/

I used to have to negotiate with protein in order to keep my fasting glucose where I wanted it. Nowadays I eat what I want when I want, and just yesterday I rolled a 3.7 mmol/L one hour after waking. My methodology as described in the linked thread above was kind of like the Cillit Bang of dawn phenomenon. Your mileage may vary and your goals may be different but that is what worked for me and continues to do so.
 
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