What will happen is a type 1 child eats no carbs at all?

[Rabdos]

Hello!

What will happen if a child with diabetes type 1 will not eat carbs at all? (without any other dietary or drug intervention)
It will obviously keep its glucose stable as it will be only regulated by glucogenolysis and gluconeogenesis but would that completely fix the problem?
Or is insulin responsible for many other processes that will inhibit the child's growth etc?

Thanks!

 

[In Response]

If someone (regardless of age) with Type 1 diabetes eats NO carbs, they will still need insulin or experience DKA.
In addition to glucogenysis (breaking down of protein into glucose), the liver releases glucose which will raise their BG.

I believe, before the discovery of insulin, those with “the sugar disease” ate very limited diet (no carbs) and did not survive very long.

Why are you asking this question? Do you have a child with Type 1 who is refusing insulin?

 

[becca59]

Worrying!
People often think diabetes is just about carbohydrate laden food. (Oh would it be that easy) The reason Type 1s have a basal insulin is to hoover up glucose rises from basically just existing. We get up in the morning-levels rise, we exercise-levels rise (for some exercises a lot) we are ill-levels rise etc. For non diabetics their pancreas will kick out insulin to counteract it. Those of us with non functioning pancreas’s will require artificial insulin. If that insulin is not injected, then eventually our high levels will be the end of us.
A child may eat no carbs, though most foods contain some carbs, but if they just eat meat and fish they will still need insulin, as protein only diets require insulin. And believe me working out ratios is hard and diet becomes monotonous. For a child it is about balance between diabetes, growth and damage of other organs like bowels. And to maintain this sort of balance some bolus insulin will be needed.

 

[Jaylee]

Hi,

As others have said. It’s a no fly zone omitting insulin for a type 1.
Whatever the diet, no insulin will arrest development as the body turns on what’s left of body fat resources & wasting muscle tissue into the bargain too…

Then eventually, death..

 

[plantae]

Insulin does more than one thing. It's a complicated process but it works in tandem with the hormone glucagon. They both work an intricate dance that we don't, yet, fully understand. I don't think you can just cut out one without causing some pretty serious (like death, that's kinda serious) side effects

Edit: I mention only those two hormones because they are the best studied. But you cannot live with one and not the other, there are feedback loops and they interact in very complicated ways. I could explain here but I don't want to write 8000 words. Summary, you cannot leave out insulin... short answer, you will die

 

[Zhnyaka]

I almost died and my parents were almost deprived of their parental rights because of an attempt to do so

 

[plantae]

Let's see what Dr Google says (without insulin, at this point carb intake will make no acceptable difference). You're looking at 1-3 days at best. 2 weeks if you're "lucky" (and I put lucky in quotes because that's not how I'd like to die)

 

[Fenn]

Hi, I am currently trying to eat as close to zero carbs as I reasonably can, although my insulin has drastically reduced, I bounce up to around 10-12 when I wake up and need bolus insulin to get it down, this is on top of my basal, so it seems previous folks are correct unfortunately. I can get away without any insulin for some meals though.

 

[lovinglife]

Hello!

What will happen if a child with diabetes type 1 will not eat carbs at all? (without any other dietary or drug intervention)
It will obviously keep its glucose stable as it will be only regulated by glucogenolysis and gluconeogenesis but would that completely fix the problem?
Or is insulin responsible for many other processes that will inhibit the child's growth etc?

Thanks!

Can I ask why you’re asking this question @Rabdos? Is it just curiosity or is there a child you know not taking or not being given their insulin?

 

[plantae]

It will obviously keep its glucose stable as it will be only regulated by glucogenolysis and gluconeogenesis but would that completely fix the problem?

No, that's not how it works. Insulin has an inhibitory effect on those as well as regulating cell (brain, adipose tissue etc etc etc) uptake of glucose. Circulatory blood glucose levels will not be under control because of the feedback loops that I alluded to earlier. Please can you answer @lovinglife because maybe that would change our responses

 

[Rabdos]

No, I am not asking about anyone specific, it is a theoretical/scientific question.

@Fenn you follow low/no carb while being type 1, right? Is that what type 1 are supposed to do? Does it benefit you? Or is it simply because you cannot calculate the sugar intake in relation to the insulin injections to keep blood sugar under control?

 

[ianf0ster]

@Fenn you follow low/no carb while being type 1, right? Is that what type 1 are supposed to do? Does it benefit you? Or is it simply because you cannot calculate the sugar intake in relation to the insulin injections to keep blood sugar under control?

'Supposed to do'? - Have you actually been reading the success posts in this forum and the advice to Newbies?
Don't you realise that neither Type 1's nor Type 2's are healthy if they just do 'what they are supposed to do'!

All different types of diabetics are healthiest if they do what they have found out works best for their unique diabetes in their unique mind and body.
I include mind, because there is mental aspect to living with diabetes not just the food, the metabolism, hormones, gut bacteria etc.

 

[Fenn]

No, I am not asking about anyone specific, it is a theoretical/scientific question.

@Fenn you follow low/no carb while being type 1, right? Is that what type 1 are supposed to do? Does it benefit you? Or is it simply because you cannot calculate the sugar intake in relation to the insulin injections to keep blood sugar under control?

I do keto and intermittent fasting because I believe in the health benefits, I like the foods I’m allowed, I find it easy and best of all I take way less medications.

edit, I am able to calculate my carbs to insulin ok but I struggle to avoid the up and down spikes when I eat “normally”

 

[Jaylee]

No, I am not asking about anyone specific, it is a theoretical/scientific question.

OK, So….

Type 1s on the whole have dead beta cells in the pancreas.
We can have a basal (long acting insulin injected.) running in the background that deals with any glycogen dumped by the liver which I therory keeps fasting levels stable.

Then there is the short acting “bolus” insulin injected for food. This can cover any carbs but we need to work out an insulin dosage to carb ratio, which can be indevidual. There also needs to be a dose worked out for protein. Which when broken down through the process called “gluconeogenesis,” can still raise BG if not accounted for.

Most long acting basal needs are what they are for the individual on any given day. Edit to elaborate. Day off doing very little/ or a full on day job scenario. As one example.?
But lower carbing choice means less active bolus on board (which for me.) makes hypos easier to treat with the minimal amount of sugar & lower repercussions..

But it will never remove the need for exogenous insulin for a T1.

Unless you are thinking about the “honeymoon period” when the pancreas pushes a nominal amount of insulin out before it finally gives up?

Then that’s a slightly different ball game with an insulin dependant type 1…

Hope this helps?

 

[In Response]

Unless you are thinking about the “honeymoon period” when the pancreas pushes a nominal amount of insulin out before it finally gives up?

The OP is asking about a child.
The honeymoon period for a child is typically pretty short.

No, I am not asking about anyone specific, it is a theoretical/scientific question.

I must say, this seems like a pretty gruesome theoretical/scientific question.
Hopefully, we have satisfactory answered your curiosity.

 

[Jaylee]

The OP is asking about a child.
The honeymoon period for a child is typically pretty short.

I hear you.

But there is also the misconception T1 only manifests in childhood? (I could elaborate, but even an HCP assumed I was T2 now, due to middle age?)
We know that not to be true. This is what I am “covering..”

& even us “ poor likkle brave soldier kids” (“that also racks me off from the gen public or HCP on the realisation.) would not have got thus far without the “slin..”

 

[plantae]

It will obviously keep its glucose stable as it will be only regulated by glucogenolysis and gluconeogenesis but would that completely fix the problem?
Or is insulin responsible for many other processes that will inhibit the child's growth etc?

Thanks!

I think this is the misconception and I'm talking simply here intentionally. Glucogenolysis and gluconeogenesis will not be regulated because insulin plays a role. Without insulin glycogenolysis will continue unabated and the liver will be dumping glucose into the bloodstream without abandon (or until it runs out of glycogen I guess). But you've got all this glucose running around in your blood with nothing to do. It can't get into your cells where it's needed because insulin is needed for that. Glucose problem solved except it cannot be used. What happens then? Your body doesn't want to die, so it needs to find an alternative source of energy. Ketones are produced. So now your cells have the energy they need, which they couldn't get because of the lack of insulin, but you also have all this glucose in your blood that your body cannot use as well as ketones. That causes a bit of a problem. Your glucose will be rising and keep rising (insulin potently inhibits glycogenolysis, probably in conjunction with glucagon, as part of the feedback loops I mentioned yesterday). There's no regulation because a critical hormone (insulin) is missing. There's not a lot of point in having glucose in your blood if your body cannot use it. The unregulated condition here will eventually cause death

 

[PaulAshby]

Hello!

What will happen if a child with diabetes type 1 will not eat carbs at all? (without any other dietary or drug intervention)
It will obviously keep its glucose stable as it will be only regulated by glucogenolysis and gluconeogenesis but would that completely fix the problem?
Or is insulin responsible for many other processes that will inhibit the child's growth etc?

Thanks!

DKA is painful, your child will get this if you don't administer insulin leading to death, plus there is the legal responsibility to your child who will learn quickly how to deal with there new friend and lead a quite sensible if sometimes irritating life.

 

[priya-dogra]

I do keto and intermittent fasting because I believe in the health benefits

Doesn't benefits of a low-card diet far outweights whatever benefits it offer?

 

[In Response]

Doesn't benefits of a low-card diet far outweights whatever benefits it offer?

Even with low (or no) carb diets, someone with Type 1 will need to inject insulin.
Glucose does not only come from carbs.