X-pert health.org.uk

Pipp

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
10,668
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Tablets (oral)
I pondered that but then thought I may be seen as a know it all or trouble maker. One of the DNs running the course was interested in myfitnesspal when I last saw her so she may mention that.

If the practice had looked at the data and selected those with a good success rate, perhaps they could have invited those people to share their stories. I would see this as proactive and it would help others to have the confidence to try to get off the medication, if that's a possibility. Also to lose weight. I would jump at organising a walking group. I prefer to walk alone but I would be willing to organise people initially, until they were used to the routine and found their confidence to either walk alone or form their own little friendship groups.

I remember my DN saying I was rare in the practice and most think the medication is a passport to eating anything. I think the message needs to be more forceful and if the practice can get people who are managing successfully to meet others, then that surely would help.

We all contribute to the NHS and benefit and it would be nice to put something of ourselves back in.


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That would be brilliant, if @peacetrain and @Bluetit1802 could get some input into the course. I do believe that education is a two way process. Unfortunately have yet to encounter health professionals willing to acknowledge they can learn from patients. It is usually the same script or tick box exercise.
However, it appears that your DN could be interested. When I and a group of other obese patients wanted to get the local NHS weight management service involved in an exercise programme we had arranged they just kept on saying we couldn't have access to their patients due to 'clinical governance'. Yet the same NHS trust was happy enough to offer the same patients expensive bariatric surgery, because that was the protocol.
 

peacetrain

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,405
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Perhaps, I misinterpreted but I was reacting specifically to the remarks about' NHS punishment programme' and then the banter. I think it would be a pity if others who may benefit were put off what others have said is a good course,
Yes you misinterpreted. At no point did I say it was an NHS punishment programme. I would never view such courses in that way. My point, I will repeat it again, was that FOR ME, the invitation was too late.

Also, I have NEVER said it wasn't a good course. It's quite obvious to anyone that these courses are extremely important for people with diabetes. For that reason, surely the courses should be offered say within a month of diagnosis. As someone else said, it's all down to funding. False economy in my opinion. Complications, in part due to lack of knowledge may cost the NHS more.

As for banter, diabetes is a serious matter but the approach of the NHS is often laughable. I.e. In this instance the tardiness of the invitation. I would hope anyone new to the forum would understand that.

I'm a little put out that you've chosen to put words into my mouth.

That's my final word because we are simply going around in circles.


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phoenix

Expert
Messages
5,671
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
We didn't go. Quite honestly, I saw such a thing as part of the NHS punishment programme (ritual mortification, along with the ****-a-lot tablets), rather like having to turn up to see a probation officer or being put in the stocks, for the crime of being a fat nuisance. Not going didn't do us any harm. But others may find Desmond/Expert etc as comforting, reassuring and informative. I think it's important to decide which camp you are in and react accordingly. Nobody should feel obliged to go.
Sally
I don't think that I said that you said this but was part of the thread and the banter followed. This quite frankly upset me because I see this course as one that may be beneficial to many.
Snap. Perhaps we could go together and cause mayhem? I noticed the course leaders are our own practice nurses.
Click to expand...
Perhaps they've invited us on purpose so we can give our input!! Ha ha ha!

I suppose that would be a good reason to go...


All I want is that people realise that this may be a worthwhile course and it would be regrettable if people were put off. Like you, I have had my say.
 
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IanD

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,429
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
Carbohydrates
Perhaps they've invited us on purpose so we can give our input!! Ha ha ha!

I suppose that would be a good reason to go...


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I emailed the dietitian who advised me on the HCLF diet originally, that I had switched to LCHF & gained good control & reversed complications.

She invited me onto her XPERT course, & 2 years later onto her XPERT refresher course - as an example of successful control. She has reduced the carb recommendation to about 130 g daily, but seems afraid to change the low sat fat recommendation.
 
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douglas99

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,572
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
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Other
Has anyone actually read the guidelines linked through to on the X-pert website?

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Documents/Reports/Nutritional_guidelines200911.pdf

It's an interesting guide.


But I didn't do the X-pert, I did the Desmond, which was well worth the time for me.

Not only the advice from the course, which was ok, especially as the rest of the room probably had no idea what any improvement in their diet would do, or even where to start, but also from speaking to the course leaders later, and getting the names at the local specialist diabetic clinic, the NHS gym, and all the contacts for the referrals I later got via my doctor.
The NHS even paid for a crash course in golf for an afternoon for me at one stage, as part of their 'keep fit' program among other things.
 

spendercat

Well-Known Member
Messages
277
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Cruelty. I am kind.
I did one of these courses two months after I was diagnosed, and I suppose they must vary a lot. The speakers on mine did not want any input, or discussion. They gave us a diagram of the food pyramid. Told us that Diabetes is invariably progressive. Told us testing was a waste of NHS resources.
Got the strong impression that all these slim speakers thought it was a self inflicted condition.
Most of the attendees were mystified and frightened and looking for real knowledge. They did not get it there.
 
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jack412

Expert
Messages
5,618
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I emailed the dietitian who advised me on the HCLF diet originally, that I had switched to LCHF & gained good control & reversed complications.

She invited me onto her XPERT course, & 2 years later onto her XPERT refresher course - as an example of successful control. She has reduced the carb recommendation to about 130 g daily, but seems afraid to change the low sat fat recommendation.
I was having a read of the American diabetic ass. annual report stuff, she doesn't have to shift too far from the current advice,
low fat is <30% total and 10% sat and they are saying you can do a higher fat Mediterranean-style as an alternative


American diabetic association ( http://www.professional.diabetes.org/)
http://www.professional.diabetes.or...=DP&s_src=vanity&s_subsrc=nutritionguidelines

Evidence is inconclusive for an ideal amount of total fat intake for people with diabetes;
therefore, goals should be individualized; fat quality appears to be far more important
than quantity.

In people with type 2 diabetes, a Mediterranean-style, MUFA-rich eating pattern may benefit
glycemic control and CVD risk factors and can therefore be recommended as an effective
alternative to a lower-fat, higher-carbohydrate eating pattern.

Low fat Emphasizes vegetables, fruits, starches (e.g., breads/crackers, pasta, whole grains, starchy vegetables), lean protein,
and low-fat dairy products. Defined as total fat intake, <30%of total energy intake and saturated fat intake, <10%.


and it's a similar story about carbs
Carbohydrates Evidence is inconclusive for an ideal amount of carbohydrate intake for people with diabetes.
Therefore, collaborative goals should be developed with the individual with diabetes.
The amount of carbohydrates and available insulin may be the most important factor influencing
glycemic response after eating and should be considered when developing the eating plan.
Monitoring carbohydrate intake, whether by carbohydrate counting or experience-based
estimation remains a key strategy in achieving glycemic control.

For good health, carbohydrate intake from vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, and dairy
products should be advised over intake from other carbohydrate sources, especially those
that contain added fats, sugars, or sodium. [processed carbs]
Substituting low–glycemic load foods for higher–glycemic load foods may modestly improve
glycemic control.

Low carbohydrate Focuses on eating foods higher in protein (meat, poultry, fish, shellfish, eggs, cheese, nuts and seeds), fats (oils, butter, olives, avocado), and vegetables low in carbohydrate (salad greens, cucumbers, broccoli, summer squash).
The amount of carbohydrate allowed varies with most plans allowing fruit (e.g., berries) and higher carbohydrate
vegetables; however, sugar-containing foods and grain products such as pasta, rice, and bread are generally
avoided. There is no consistent definition of “low” carbohydrate. In research studies, definitions have ranged from
very low-carbohydrate diet (21–70 g/day of carbohydrates) to moderately low-carbohydrate diet (30 to ,40% of calories from carbohydrates).
 
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DeejayR

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,381
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
I think you should go. Someone with your experience and with the courage to speak out could do a lot of good. Forgive them, for they know not what they do, etc. Don't worry about upsetting the self-righteous. Remember, people who take offence easily should be given every opportunity to do so.

Whether I have the courage to speak out if necessary at my DESMOND course is, er, well I think I'll just sit at the back ...
 

douglas99

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,572
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
I think you should go. Someone with your experience and with the courage to speak out could do a lot of good. Forgive them, for they know not what they do, etc. Don't worry about upsetting the self-righteous. Remember, people who take offence easily should be given every opportunity to do so.

Whether I have the courage to speak out if necessary at my DESMOND course is, er, well I think I'll just sit at the back ...

Would depend really.

If the courses intention is to get the rest of the room off white bread, jam donuts, and Mars bars, and teach them about basic nutrition, and reading the labels at least, let alone going down the veg aisle, it would be shame to take that off track for the rest of the room.

But if they're already past that stage, fair enough.
 
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DeejayR

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,381
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
If the courses intention is to get the rest of the room off white bread, jam donuts, and Mars bars, and teach them about basic nutrition, and reading the labels at least, let alone going down the veg aisle, it would be shame to take that off track for the rest of the room.

But if they're already past that stage, fair enough.

Good point.