Low carb diets and Diabetes UK

[tonyS54]

I’d like to thank Sam for all the work he’s put into this; the majority of posters on this thread appreciate his efforts I’m sure like me they wish him well and hope he keeps up the good work.

 

[douglas99]

And that’s the problem with DUK , it’s a one size fits all diet no matter your build, activity levels, disabilities or most importantly your daily calorie requirements the ratio of carbs remains the same.

You're right here.
It should be low carb for all.

 

[paul-1976]

I’d like to thank Sam for all the work he’s put into this; the majority of posters on this thread appreciate his efforts I’m sure like me they wish him well and hope he keeps up the good work.

Seconded!! Thankyou Sam,Ian,Hana and anyone else I've not mentioned who goes the extra mile for change.

 

[fatbird]

Douglas said "You're right here.It should be low carb for all."

By jove you have got it at a last. Not all diabetics are suitable or find it desirable to low carb. Others successfully control diabetes with other methods. I will settle for most tonight.

Douglas come on over to the dark side and feel the force.

FB

 

[tonyS54]

Seconded!! Thankyou Sam,Ian,Hana and anyone else I've not mentioned who goes the extra mile for change.

Agreed, Hana and Ian work hard behind the scenes too, and as long term low carbers they have the years of experience and the results to back their position up.

 

[SamJB]

The problem with small scale studies is that they are typically run by a couple of clinicians, with no formal RnD training, a part time statistician shared throughout the faculty and a few dozen patients. Consequently, there will always be conflicting papers and people (DUK or low carbers) can always find papers to support their hypotheses. In my experience, this is what DUK has certainly done.

The clinical trials I work in have around a thousand patients, around a hundred people with decades of RnD experience, a dozen or do full time analysts, a billion dollar budget and a strict regulatory programme. The results from these are almost never ambiguous.

So if there are conflicting papers, how do you decide which hypothesis is correct? It all comes down to patient experience. This cannot ever be ignored, it's the worst thing DUK can do, but they are utterly guilty of it in this case.

Also a bit of common sense from DUK , (see my other posts in the thread regarding eating fewer things that raise your sugar levels) would be nice too.

 

[xyzzy]

Actually give a bit of advice as to what to eat, not what people can't eat.

Your joking right?

Kath (unbeliever) has dedicated years of her life handing out balanced and sensible advice to 1000s of people on this and other forums.

Again shame on you Douglas you need to take a serious look at yourself imho.

Back to DUK. ..

I would guess the overwhelming majority of informed diabetics on this forum would simply want DUK to come out with a statement like ...

"Eat less carbs stooopid"

without regards to precisely how many carbs to reduce or what you replace them with because from their own experience they recognise that above all else it is the key thing most need to achieve.

Again this thread is not about carbs it's about DUKs lack of objective advice. Perhaps you'd like to join in with that conversation and have a view on that rather than obsessively fixating on carbs, fat and protein percentages.




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[Andy12345]

Your joking right?

Kath (unbeliever) has dedicated years of her life handing out balanced and sensible advice to 1000s of people on this and other forums.

Again shame on you Douglas you need to take a serious look at yourself imho.

Back to DUK. ..

I would guess the overwhelming majority of informed diabetics on this forum would simply want DUK to come out with a statement like ...

"Eat less carbs stooopid"

without regards to precisely how many carbs to reduce or what you replace them with because from their own experience they recognise that above all else it is the key thing most need to achieve.

Again this thread is not about carbs it's about DUKs lack of objective advice. Perhaps you'd like to join in with that conversation and have a view on that rather than obsessively fixating on carbs, fat and protein percentages.




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i have to agree, where did i learn what i could eat if not here?

 

[douglas99]

Your joking right?

Kath (unbeliever) has dedicated years of her life handing out balanced and sensible advice to 1000s of people on this and other forums.

Again shame on you Douglas you need to take a serious look at yourself imho.

Back to DUK. ..

I would guess the overwhelming majority of informed diabetics on this forum would simply want DUK to come out with a statement like ...

"Eat less carbs stooopid"

without regards to precisely how many carbs to reduce or what you replace them with because from their own experience they recognise that above all else is the key thing.

Again this thread is not about carbs it's about DUKs lack of objective advice. Perhaps you'd like to join in with that conversation and have a view on that rather than obsessively fixating on carbs, fat and protein percentages.




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I have to be honest, I eat less carbs.
I took that advice.
I stopped the box of donuts, I stopped the half loaf on white bread, I stopped the pies, I really did reduce carbs.
But that's not what you mean.
Andy, who has made some excellent posts, is a low carber I respect.
But when he puts up his daily diet for a newbie, it's actually a very refrained, quite portion controlled diet. Not calories, but portion controlled.

That's what I mean when I say there isn't any such thing as a low carb diet.
Andy could be considered portion controlled not low carb, he could also be high protein.
The Newcastle diet could be considered low carb.
"Eat less carbs stooopid", like me, is definitely low carb compared to my previous diet.

So I'm not being deliberately difficult here, it's just not a defined diet, and even I could claim to low carb, merely by eating less overall, and certainly by knocking off the box of donuts.

 

[Andy12345]

i am baffled by you douglas, i appreciate you saying that, but i just dont understand you you say things that make me think you agree with low carbing as a good idea but then fight against it at every opportunity

 

[mrman]

Cant comment yet, will read all those links and get back to you all on it next year

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[Andy12345]

i dont even try and read them lol, thats why my posts never make any sense

 

[douglas99]

i am baffled by you douglas, i appreciate you saying that, but i just dont understand you you say things that make me think you agree with low carbing as a good idea but then fight against it at every opportunity

I comment on it when "low carbing" is put forward as the only solution, and also when the data used isn't relevant.
I comment when a short term obesity diet report is considered proof of a lifestyle choice.
Or if a newbie has come on, been advised to go LCHF, taken off the spuds, and poured oil and cheese over everything, and then been surprised by the actual restraint shown in diets posted.
Low carb has to start with knowing what carbs are.
High fat has have the clarity of what high means.
And no matter how it's portrayed as an all you can eat pass, it really isn't for most posters.

To define low carb on here means Low carb high fat, if it's mixed up as just low carb, with high protein, it's going to need good kidneys to cope with. If it's just low carb, there's a calorie deficiency.

Even the Newcastle diet is low carb by numbers.
I've also noticed that some posters are trying a modified Newcastle diet as very low carb, so clearly the low carb message isn't clear, as that's low carb, no fat, very low calorie.

So yes, maybe I am fussy the terms are correct.

And no, I don't fight low carb, I just read the posts, and even in this thread, not one poster has managed to tell me what low carb actually is, so how will DUK ever be convinced?

We should be the study for LCHF, not blaming DUK for missing the opportunity we're giving them, but we can't even put down our own diets on paper, so it's pointless blaming them.

It's frustrating watching so many obviously dedicated people, engaging in recrimination, when they are the people who themselves are the study, and then seeing the water muddied by quoting other articles that diminish the credibility of the entire group.

 

[Andy12345]

as far as im concerned i want to shout out EAT LESS CARBS and then we can sort the rest out, newly diagnosed folks are clutching for something to hang onto, i was, they dont want a thousand choices, they want to know what they shouldnt eat to make themselves better, eat less carbs! now lets look into things

it dosent suit everyone, its not the only route but its a **** good route that will suit most so its a great start point

 

[douglas99]

as far as im concerned i want to shout out EAT LESS CARBS and then we can sort the rest out, newly diagnosed folks are clutching for something to hang onto, i was, they dont want a thousand choices, they want to know what they shouldnt eat to make themselves better, eat less carbs! now lets look into things

That's it though.
They want to know what they should eat.
They want something to hang onto
That's why I keep posting up your day.

No one wants to know what they shouldn't eat.

Not everyone knows what a carb is.
A lot get confused, lose heart, fall off the wagon, but I reckon most simply don't know what they can eat, and telling them what they can't will never work for them.

Imagine you're working, get on site, and all you ever get told is "you can't park your van there", or "park over there, you'll be fine"
Which helps?

 

[paul-1976]

That's it though.
They want to know what they should eat.
They want something to hang onto
That's why I keep posting up your day.

No one wants to know what they shouldn't eat.

Not everyone knows what a carb is.
A lot get confused, lose heart, fall off the wagon, but I reckon most simply don't know what they can eat, and telling them what they can't will never work for them.

Imagine you're working, get on site, and all you ever get told is "you can't park your van there", or "park over there, you'll be fine"
Which helps?

Oh Douglas!! There's literally hundreds of posts and recipes dating back over 6 years on this forum of all the things you CAN eat-you know it-I know it but goodnight as I ain't playing this game.

PS I know you'll ask for links but you know how to search on here by know.

 

[Andy12345]

sure i agree! phew, but there are an awful lot of tastes, i cant say eat yogurt for brekkie, i have to say dont eat cereais as they have a bad effect on your bg, so the message isnt you must eat this, the message is if you eat this your will have high bg, lets look at what wont do that to your bg, or if you park your van there it will get a ticket, i would say ok thanks where should i park


this is so important, the thought of putting someone off doing something that may just save their life as it did mine is dreadful imho

 

[douglas99]

Oh Douglas!! There's literally hundreds of posts and recipes dating back over 6 years on this forum of all the things you CAN eat-you know it-I know it but goodnight as I ain't playing this game.

PS I know you'll ask for links but you know how to search on here by know.

No, I've read most of them, indeed eaten some of them.
However, a recipe gives no idea of a diet, it may be a snack, a full meal, a meal for two, or even just a side.
A recipe isn't a diet, gives no idea how many snacks are in the day, whether you pour sauce over it, or serve it with a salad, so it's still not good enough to provide a complete lifestyle change diet.
They're guides after the event.

 

[douglas99]

sure i agree! phew, but there are an awful lot of tastes, i cant say eat yogurt for brekkie, i have to say dont eat cereais as they have a bad effect on your bg, so the message isnt you must eat this, the message is if you eat this your will have high bg, lets look at what wont do that to your bg, or if you park your van there it will get a ticket, i would say ok thanks where should i park


this is so important, the thought of putting someone off doing something that may just save their life as it did mine is dreadful imho

" i would say ok thanks where should i park"

which is exactly the same as ok, what should I eat, it's the very next thing you do.

 

[Andy12345]

which is where we tell them no? you tell them but you explain that you also avoid fat which is where their choices come in, but the message of eat less carbs is the same, some wont want to, some wont be able to, thats all fine but they will have been given the knowledge that its a good way of control which is what they are asking for

i wished i was able to articulate it better