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My Results with theNewcastle Diet

Neo_USA said:
It's funny how some things just seem to time correctly.

As I was finishing my previous post I felt the effects of hypoglycemia starting. Listening to what you and Blue said I asked my gf to run to the store and buy me a loaf of multigrain bread. I slowly ate 2 slices and now I feel a little better.

I suspect what happened this morning was the result of a late night run I did right before bed. So I'm definitely overdoing it with the exercise with the amount of calories I'm eating.

From here on I'm going to increase my calories with a few carbs and cut back on the exercise.

My only regret being that I feel as if I didn't have what it took to see the NC diet through the end.
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So, what was your reading before you ate the bread just now?
 
AndBreathe said:
I must admit I haven't read every word on your thread Neo, but I'm going to pitch in anyway.

You obviously exercise several times a day, but I'm not sure I can fathom what that entails. Do you use a multi-gym, stepper, rower, treadmill or other things?

I see you have experienced what you feel are low blood scores. Do you feel unwell when your scores read low, or do the numbers scare you because they are less than 4? If you feel unwell, what do you feel, and what have you done about it, up until now? Without knowing what your workout entails, I can't have a view on how hard that might be on the very low calorie diet, but I do want to comment on your numbers.

Please don't be freaked out by your numbers because they are below 4. Many, many non-diabetic people, and some diabetics routinely see numbers in the 3s and are absolutely fine. I am one of those people. I am diabetic, but my numbers have moderated to such an extent my readings are pretty much at the lower end of the scale, almost always. For instance, I didn't actually see any 4s yesterday. I had a fairly low carb day, which wasn't necessarily hugely planned, I just didn't eat much carb. I seemed to surf at 3.5 - 3.9 throughout the day, and felt fine. I was active, doing gardening, washing my car and a few other active, if not heavily strenuous activities. I only start to feel a bit empty at 3.4.

I don't take any meds, so I have nothing driving my levels down. Maybe you will be someone like me, in that regard?

When I have found myself feeling empty, if food is imminent, I just wait for it. If I'm not due to eat, I would probably have a cup of tea, with milk, which just nudges me up a little, and I get on with my day. I have never, ever taken anything carby to treat a low. I just don't need it. If you don't feel well at those levels, that's different.

So, I just wanted to throw the contra view into the mix for discussion.

Finally, I didn't do the Newcastle Diet, nor did I heavily low carb, but I did reduce my carbs. When my bloods were moderating, and I was losing weight, I was swimming every day, sailing, diving, cycling and regularly walking the golf course, so although not working out 3 or 4 times a day, I was significantly active.

I hope you find a way forward. It looks like your bloods want to go low, so go luck with that.
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My exercise routines was a mix of walking, running, and strength training. I lift weights about every other day trying to mitigate any muscle loss while I'm losing weight.

I felt great when my BG was in the 4-4.4 range. It's just that this morning I woke up to a 3.8 but I felt fine and didn't start feeling weak and dizzy until after breakfast which consisted of a single Glucerna shake.

I'm getting the feeling that below 4 doesn't work for my body type. I am muscular to a certain extent in my upper and lower body, but I do have a noticeable gut around the waist.

A typical workout day for me has been a 10-15 minute walk in the morning, a long rigorous walk or weight training after lunch, then a jog after dinner and one right before bed. I think I'm going to cut out my early morning and late night exercise routine because maybe it's draining my BG more than I can handle right now?

I'm also planning to add carbs back into my diet. Brunneria made a good suggestion of eating some before my workouts so I'll be working on trying to do that. My meals were also spaced out 4-5 hours so I'm thinking smaller meals about 3-4 hours apart.

What do you think about that?
 
AndBreathe said:
So, what was your reading before you ate the bread just now?
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At 1:30 my reading was 71 and I had a bowl of soup. I checked at 2:15 and it read 91. Then I checked again at 2:30 and it was 85. So it looked like it was already heading down right at the 1 hour mark.

I just ate the two slices of bread but didn't take my reading before I did. I'm going to check it again around 4:30pm to see where I am.

Edit: I didn't convert those numbers to mmol. About 3.9 is what my 1:30 reading was.
 
Neo_USA said:
My exercise routines was a mix of walking, running, and strength training. I lift weights about every other day trying to mitigate any muscle loss while I'm losing weight.

I felt great when my BG was in the 4-4.4 range. It's just that this morning I woke up to a 3.8 but I felt fine and didn't start feeling weak and dizzy until after breakfast which consisted of a single Glucerna shake.

I'm getting the feeling that below 4 doesn't work for my body type. I am muscular to a certain extent in my upper and lower body, but I do have a noticeable gut around the waist.

A typical workout day for me has been a 10-15 minute walk in the morning, a long rigorous walk or weight training after lunch, then a jog after dinner and one right before bed. I think I'm going to cut out my early morning and late night exercise routine because maybe it's draining my BG more than I can handle right now?

I'm also planning to add carbs back into my diet. Brunneria made a good suggestion of eating some before my workouts so I'll be working on trying to do that. My meals were also spaced out 4-5 hours so I'm thinking smaller meals about 3-4 hours apart.

What do you think about that?
Click to expand...

So, what is the total duration of your exercise? You certainly appear pretty active.

I think your proposal of shortening the time between fuelling will help. How does that fit in with your home life? If your girlfriend lives with you, will it be disruptive to either of you to make that adjustment?

Controversially, if I wanted to eat more, I still wouldn't have gone for carbs. I would eat a bit more protein. Not a whole cow/chicken/pig, but maybe a little cheese added to my meal. This is what I did when I needed to stop weight loss. It takes longer to convert into energy, but c50% of protein metabolises into carb.

Yes, I appreciate I'm a bit of a weirdo, but I didn't want to feed any lows I felt with carb. For me, I didn't want to give myself an easy out when I felt I wanted carbs. "Oh, I feel a bit low, I'd best have a biscuit", or the like.

The ND is very low cal and very extreme, so I feel a bit uncomfortable telling you what to do. But, I will reiterate, please don't be afraid of the low numbers in isolation.
 
Maybe cut back on the exercise?
800 calories leaves a large deficit to fit if you are burning a lot of calories.
The original diet was for patients post bariatric surgery because of obesity, so wasn't going to be targeted at very active people.
 
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Hi Neo. I wouldn't worry. I often get that dizzy feeling when I exercise but I just keep on pushing as I know my liver is going to help me out. However, when on the NC diet and you are low calories you do not have much reserve for the liver so it takes a while for the fat to be converted and hence the low levels. As I have increased my carbs since completing my low cal phase I find I stay between 4.3 and 5.4 as my natural levels. I can occasionally push myself into the 3s but I only stay there for tens of seconds before I rise (I am lucky in that I can sense my levels in my fingers and toes and can predict the test result with some accuracy).

So whilst doing the low cal phase try and reduce the exercise a little or increase your protein levels to retain your muscles or you will be digesting them. I estimated that I actually ate between 800 and 1000 cals but was exercising for around 500 cal per day.

Good luck and those really are great numbes
 
AndBreathe said:
So, what is the total duration of your exercise? You certainly appear pretty active.

I think your proposal of shortening the time between fuelling will help. How does that fit in with your home life? If your girlfriend lives with you, will it be disruptive to either of you to make that adjustment?

Controversially, if I wanted to eat more, I still wouldn't have gone for carbs. I would eat a bit more protein. Not a whole cow/chicken/pig, but maybe a little cheese added to my meal. This is what I did when I needed to stop weight loss. It takes longer to convert into energy, but c50% of protein metabolises into carb.

Yes, I appreciate I'm a bit of a weirdo, but I didn't want to feed any lows I felt with carb. For me, I didn't want to give myself an easy out when I felt I wanted carbs. "Oh, I feel a bit low, I'd best have a biscuit", or the like.

The ND is very low cal and very extreme, so I feel a bit uncomfortable telling you what to do. But, I will reiterate, please don't be afraid of the low numbers in isolation.
Click to expand...

Actually, I like that idea better. Instead of carbs I'll reincorporate lean protein back into my diet in sparing amounts on top of cutting back on my workouts.

My walks and runs usually only last anywhere from 10-20 minutes while my weight training is about 30-35 minutes. All said in a single day I exercise about 1.5 hours on top of my daily living routine. I think if anything the intensity is a bit much too because when I go for a walk I go for a power walk where I may as well be running anyway.

I'll definitely add some more calories in with my meals. Cheese sounds like a grand idea.

I'm just confused at how the research patients in the NC study lasted 8 weeks without having low blood sugar problems. Or maybe they did and it just wasn't discussed in the report.

Dr. Taylor assured me that my blood sugars showed a good response, but I'm not sure if I was articulating my concerns. After almost being hypo this morning it's evident that I can't do the 800 calorie diet and exercise as I have been doing though I do want to continue with that diet.

Maybe instead of adding calories I could just stop exercise all together. But then I wouldn't personally like that and I'd be concern about losing more muscle mass than I want during the course of weight loss.
 
douglas99 said:
Maybe cut back on the exercise?
800 calories leaves a large deficit to fit if you are burning a lot of calories.
The original diet was for patients post bariatric surgery because of obesity, so wasn't going to be targeted at very active people.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm considering that as an after thought. I heard a lot of good suggestions which included cutting out the exercise. But I really like my muscles and don't want to lose muscle during weight loss.

So now I'm a bit unsure.
 
Ok, still want to know if @Neo_USA is being monitored by doc?
 
Andrew Colvin said:
Hi Neo. I wouldn't worry. I often get that dizzy feeling when I exercise but I just keep on pushing as I know my liver is going to help me out. However, when on the NC diet and you are low calories you do not have much reserve for the liver so it takes a while for the fat to be converted and hence the low levels. As I have increased my carbs since completing my low cal phase I find I stay between 4.3 and 5.4 as my natural levels. I can occasionally push myself into the 3s but I only stay there for tens of seconds before I rise (I am lucky in that I can sense my levels in my fingers and toes and can predict the test result with some accuracy).

So whilst doing the low cal phase try and reduce the exercise a little or increase your protein levels to retain your muscles or you will be digesting them. I estimated that I actually ate between 800 and 1000 cals but was exercising for around 500 cal per day.

Good luck and those really are great numbes
Click to expand...

Andrew,

Are you only able to manage the 4.3-5.4 with exercise? What happens if you don't exercise for let's say a week; do your levels go up?
 
Pipp said:
Ok, still want to know if @Neo_USA is being monitored by doc?
Click to expand...

Of course,

I got blood work, EKG, and baselines prior to starting the NC diet. I even corresponded with Dr. Taylor with some questions as well.

I haven't checked back in with my GP, but we set it up on a monthly basis. He gave me some general guidelines and instructed me to check back in if it seem like things were going awry. I already have my blood work order for November to check my levels when I was supposed to come off the diet.
 
Neo_USA said:
Yeah, I'm considering that as an after thought. I heard a lot of good suggestions which included cutting out the exercise. But I really like my muscles and don't want to lose muscle during weight loss.

So now I'm a bit unsure.
Click to expand...

It's a diet I'm going to try shortly, but I figured I'd do it as it was originally done.
You can always tone up again when you finish.
Exercise was discussed on the diet last night in fact.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/diabetes-cured.64431/
 
Neo_USA said:
Actually, I like that idea better. Instead of carbs I'll reincorporate lean protein back into my diet in sparing amounts on top of cutting back on my workouts.

My walks and runs usually only last anywhere from 10-20 minutes while my weight training is about 30-35 minutes. All said in a single day I exercise about 1.5 hours on top of my daily living routine. I think if anything the intensity is a bit much too because when I go for a walk I go for a power walk where I may as well be running anyway.

I'll definitely add some more calories in with my meals. Cheese sounds like a grand idea.

I'm just confused at how the research patients in the NC study lasted 8 weeks without having low blood sugar problems. Or maybe they did and it just wasn't discussed in the report.

Dr. Taylor assured me that my blood sugars showed a good response, but I'm not sure if I was articulating my concerns. After almost being hypo this morning it's evident that I can't do the 800 calorie diet and exercise as I have been doing though I do want to continue with that diet.

Maybe instead of adding calories I could just stop exercise all together. But then I wouldn't personally like that and I'd be concern about losing more muscle mass than I want during the course of weight loss.
Click to expand...

I would comment on a few things:

- How active is your work? Do you drive a desk, or something more active?

- Secondly, your starting numbers weren't high, unlike the participants in the study, if I recall correctly. Again from memory, I believe Prof taylor talks about "normal levels" or non-diabetic levels. Well, that would include asymptomatic low numbers. As normal people can comfortably go below 4, why would he comment?

- If you feel you are low, you must test. My liver can be pretty frisky and step in to buoy my levels. I can now recognise when that is happening. Do you?

- Professor Taylor states weight loss is more important than the speed and method of achieving it.

- Finally, you need not do too much exercise if all you are trying to achieve is not metabolising your muscles (any more than a starvation diet will encourage)

You are talking about making lots of changes right now. I don't agree with that strategy at all, or suddenly you may not recognise what you're doing, lose sight of your objective, and won't know what is making things better or worse, for that matter. Change one thing at a time and measure its efficacy. Don't panic to achieve everything today. Doing this, you risk achieving less because you'll end up lost and in chaos.

You're looking for the next phase of your life, not for what you're going to do next week, to be doing something different again the week after.
 
Neo_USA said:
Andrew,

Are you only able to manage the 4.3-5.4 with exercise? What happens if you don't exercise for let's say a week; do your levels go up?
Click to expand...
Nope - had 6 weeks without exercise enforce on me and they stayed the same, but I put on 4 lbs so still working those off. I have stable numbers now and yes I drive them down but my body does not like me in the 3s; 3.8 is the absolute minimum I can get it to
 
AndBreathe said:
I would comment on a few things:

- How active is your work? Do you drive a desk, or something more active?

- Secondly, your starting numbers weren't high, unlike the participants in the study, if I recall correctly. Again from memory, I believe Prof taylor talks about "normal levels" or non-diabetic levels. Well, that would include asymptomatic low numbers. As normal people can comfortably go below 4, why would he comment?

- If you feel you are low, you must test. My liver can be pretty frisky and step in to buoy my levels. I can now recognise when that is happening. Do you?

- Professor Taylor states weight loss is more important than the speed and method of achieving it.

- Finally, you need not do too much exercise if all you are trying to achieve is not metabolising your muscles (any more than a starvation diet will encourage)

You are talking about making lots of changes right now. I don't agree with that strategy at all, or suddenly you may not recognise what you're doing, lose sight of your objective, and won't know what is making things better or worse, for that matter. Change one thing at a time and measure its efficacy. Don't panic to achieve everything today. Doing this, you risk achieving less because you'll end up lost and in chaos.

You're looking for the next phase of your life, not for what you're going to do next week, to be doing something different again the week after.
Click to expand...

I'm an independent consultant and most of my work is behind a desk. Though I try to break up that monotony as much as possible by doing house chores, or running out to the store for things. I do work from home at the moment.

So when I'm not actively working out I'm trying to remain active throughout.

To your second inquiry, I don't know what my levels were pre-A1C if that makes any sense. All I know is that when I got spot checked by my doctor he always called them "fine". The only time I was checked and showed high BG was minutes before I went into surgery for my back. The doctor said my BG was very high and I explained that I was on Prednisone and his response was "Oh, that will do it then".

Even way before my diagnosis I made a massive lifestyle change where I completely cut out refined carbohydrates from my diet and began a regular exercise routine. So the numbers I posed as my baseline were based on that low carb, exercise filled lifestyle. What they actually could have been prior to that is anyone's guess. All I know is that my A1C was 6.6% meaning that my BG must have exceeded 8.9 to arrive at that average.

It was frustrating at first to accept because I started checking my BG at home for my own personal health reasons. I started way before I was diagnosed and never saw anything higher than a 130 immediately after meals.

One thing I did think I figured out about Dr. Taylor's post research assessment is that they seemed to use a very lax set of standards to declare people free of diabetes. By that it seems they were going by the 11 mmol OGTT standard which I find to be quite high. I've seen other standards where 8.9 is considered diabetes for the OGTT.

And to be honest I just typed all of the above out but I forgot the point I was trying to make. Sorry about that.
 
Andrew Colvin said:
Nope - had 6 weeks without exercise enforce on me and they stayed the same, but I put on 4 lbs so still working those off. I have stable numbers now and yes I drive them down but my body does not like me in the 3s; 3.8 is the absolute minimum I can get it to
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That is amazing.

So would you consider your diabetes "reversed"? Do you think you'll see an elevation again when you get older?

That's precisely my goal to get to where I can have non-diabetic levels without having to worry about maintaining a rigorous lifestyle.
 
Neo_USA said:
Of course,

I got blood work, EKG, and baselines prior to starting the NC diet. I even corresponded with Dr. Taylor with some questions as well.

I haven't checked back in with my GP, but we set it up on a monthly basis. He gave me some general guidelines and instructed me to check back in if it seem like things were going awry. I already have my blood work order for November to check my levels when I was supposed to come off the diet.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Glad to know that. Just don't like the idea that someone would be getting advice from us on forum without having medical support in the first instance.
 
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