Not allowed to go on school trip..

[Mrs.Walcott]

Hi all. I’m after a bit of advice. ..

My daughter is 13 and a type 1. There’s a school trip to Madrid in October that she wanted to go on. I’ve paid her deposit and received an email confirming her place.
I’ve just received a call from the school saying she can’t go. Kodi, my daughter, missed a lot of school from September to s December due to her diabetes. Since January, she has been at school a lot more. She’s had on average about a week off every month. Not all due to being diabetes related. Some absences were for hospital, doctors appointments. One week because she had tonsillitis. And a couple of mornings to attend family therapy. Although her diabetes has by no means bean well controlled, we’ve never had to seek advice from any medical source. ( other than routine appointments) since December.
The reasons given by the school for her not being able to go are:
- her attendance this academic year is below 50% due to her diabetes. ( she only attended school for about 4 weeks in total between September and December)
- when they’ve taken diabetics away before they’ve had trouble with night times (?!?!)

Whilst I do understand a concern about her diabetes, Kodi has done fantastically well since Christmas. She’s been in school regularly and we haven’t had to contact her diabetes team for continued support. As we had to between September and December

They’ve asked no questions regarding Kodi’s diabetes. They’ve made their decision solely on her attendance and the fact that she’s diabetic.

Has anyone else experienced similar?

I’ve a meeting this afternoon at 2.30.

 

[Deleted Account]

Diabetes UK have some useful advocacy services including one on education.
Details are available at https://www.diabetes.org.uk/how_we_help/helpline/your-rights/advocacy-packs/education-and-diabetes.

If it was me, I would point out to the school that diabetes is covered by the disability discrimination act (DDA).

 

[Diakat]

I would be asking if other children with low attendance are also being refused. I would also be asking to see their equality/disabiliry policy as t1 diabetes is covered by law and this sound like discrimination.
Ask for details of previous issues with night time.
Ask if any children with other health issues e.g allergy, irritable bowel, asthma, are being excluded from the trip.

 

[Robinredbreast]

Good luck this afternoon, go in with confidence and all the relevant information and don't let them bulldoze you, I hope she can go as it it would be a wonderful experience for her, a real confidence booster and learning new life skills.
Wishing you all the best x

 

[Mrs.Walcott]

Good luck this afternoon, go in with confidence and all the relevant information and don't let them bulldoze you, I hope she can go as it it would be a wonderful experience for her, a real confidence booster and learning new life skills.
Wishing you all the best x

Thank you xxx

 

[wiflib]

My advice would be to postpone that meeting if you can until you have the right support in place. Call the governors and your local education authority first.

 

[Mrs.Walcott]

I would be asking if other children with low attendance are also being refused. I would also be asking to see their equality/disabiliry policy as t1 diabetes is covered by law and this sound like discrimination.
Ask for details of previous issues with night time.
Ask if any children with other health issues e.g allergy, irritable bowel, asthma, are being excluded from the trip.

Thank you xxc

 

[Robinredbreast]

Thank you xxx

ps if it doesn't go well, then you can get in touch with a higher educational authority. Finger's crossed X

Calm, in control and a friendly assertiveness too,

 

[Heyrehair]

As per others comments here, this looks like discrimination to me.

Please let us know how it goes.

Good luck.

 

[Mrs.Walcott]

They’ve agreed to hold off on their decision until they have spoke to her consultant/ Diabetes nurse. Their decision was made solely on her attendance since September. They’d not completed a risk assessment on Kodi’s diabetes. Just went off her attendance. I’m confident the consultant will say she’s fine to go. We’ll wait and see. Many thanks to all that espoused xxx

 

[Diakat]

Sounds positive. Let us know the outcome.

 

[Dr Snoddy]

Cat amongst the pigeons time. I agree with the comments about discrimination. However, as an ex-teacher and veteran of many school trips both at home and abroad, I would like the point of view of staff to be taken into consideration. Staff on trips are effectively working 24/7 and are to some extent working solely as volunteers. They have to be confident that they can cope with any emergency should one arise and that if one or two staff are coping with a possible hospitalization, for example, that there are enough remaining staff to look after the remaining students. This puts incredible pressure on teachers and increasingly staff will not go on trips at all. My last head had a realistic view and said that staff would not be required to take anyone away if they felt that they were compromising themselves at all. In 30+ years I only ever refused to take one student and that was on the grounds of behaviour. I have dealt with many medically related conditions and incidents on trips over the years but the responsibility placed on individual teachers is huge. I hope that a suitable compromise can be reached.

 

[There is no Spoon]

I’m confident the consultant will say she’s fine to go. We’ll wait and see. Many thanks to all that espoused xxx

I hope this is the case for you.

But make sure when your speaking to them, while they are making there assessment IF this is not the case you want your money back. My daughter has some health issues a couple of years back and was refused to go on the trip.

Long story short it took months and months of arguing to get my money back, had to threaten legal action.

 

[Grant_Vicat]

Not that I would want to disappoint any child who might be going on a trip, it is difficult to comment on a particular case from an outside party's viewpoint. All I can say is that discrimination is not necessarily thoughtless victimisation, abuse or exclusion. Take for example health checks for issuing licences. Although I found it (and still, ironically do) a pain having to wade through the DVLA forms every 3 years, I classed the process as "positive discrimination" in that it protected the public as well as concentrated my mind on my responsibilities behind the wheel of a potentially lethal machine. In the case of Kodi Walcott, I really hope that she has the chance to accompany her friends. I agree with @Dr Snoddy, being a teacher myself, in that staff are not just guardians and instructors, but could be targets for litigation, not that I am suggesting that @Mrs.Walcott would take such a path. As I know from my own experience, people with little or no experience of handling diabetic episodes tend to show real anxiety when faced with the possibility. No parent would agree to put me up for a night from diagnosis at 11 months till 13 years old. It certainly wasn't "fair", but I understood the reasons. Although diabetes is touched on in First Aid courses, reality is somewhat different.

 

[Alasdair]

Looking at this from an outsider point of view, and I also accept that I don’t know all the details so it might sound a little harsh but:

1) this sounds like an elective trip. Therefore many student will not go because of the cost or family holidays or something else. I, and many others, missed the school ski trip to Italy - not because I was diabetic but because my folks couldn’t / wouldn’t fork out the money

2) attendance levels in the academic year are below 50%. I appreciate that there may be valid reasons for this - or is there? I don’t know obviously so it has to be asked. This is an eye opening statistic and I’d imagine the school are concerned about her attendance and the impact that it is having on her education. The trip is extra curricular so I would’ve thought it fairly normal for kids with poor attendance or poor behaviour records to be excluded from ‘reward’ or events outside of the school premises where legal liability may change etc.

3) the school need to do a proper risk assessment. Child’s attendance may form part of that because there are so many ‘unknowns’ (how well do they ‘know’ the pupil given the lack of attendance?)

4) teachers are teachers, not doctors or nurses and definitely not diabetes specialist. They are responsible for many things but primarily they are in it to help educate. If someone has shown that they have a medical condition that they cannot manage well for themselves (to the point where attendance is less than 50% for example) then why should a teacher be expected to carry the responsibility of helping them manage it while in a foreign country???


I hope you manage to get a solution that wins for everyone but I think there also has to be a realistic look at it before firing out the discrimination card.

 

[KK123]

Good luck with it all but there has got to be a serious problem with her type 1 diabetes to be missing a week of school every month???? Is her diabetes team doing anything about that? At 13 she must surely be well behind poor thing.

 

[leahkian]

I think it is about time the government passed a bill that would allow people from different job fields to have a diabetic nurse to go into the workplace and teach the basics of diabetes. It would help schools, playgroups and anyone who is involved with children to have a idea of what was happening. When i was 14 and 15 i was invited to soccer camps, mind we are talking 25 years ago. When i got there there were 3 coaches who had a chat with a diabetic doctor and had sheets of what they could go if i was unwell as it was i was unwell by having hypos at night but i went and got one of the coaches up and had some glucose and 2 biscuits and we waited 15 mins to make sure my BG was on the up. Teachers do have a hard job and the extra pressure of taking a diabetic child away but if the family and the teacher went to meet a diabetic team and find out what it would take to make sure the child is safe. The teacher could go back and then pass on what she has been told like if it is hot when they are away to reduce insulin and reduce it some more if they are doing exercise. My daughter is going on a History trip in july and 2 diabetics are going on the trip as well(my daughter is not diabetic). They asked my daughter if i would mind if they could ask me some questions, i said yes but only if the children and parents were there. We all got together on a Wed as my son has football practice, so the teachers asked questions and i let the children answer them and the teachers were looking at me and i was saying they are right, at the end of the night i gave them some websites and some information that i had got. Then they looked at me and said you did not answer many questions and i told them i am not going on the trip and they know their own bodies. I told them that if all the students were there who did not have diabetes i would have answered the questions but the pupils who are going on this trip are friends with most of the group and will be able to see the signs if their BS were dropping. I said the 2 children are not worried because they know what to do but i understand that you will worry, just as i will worry about my daughter when she is away. They are thinking about starting a brief overview of diabetes for the new starters in September and would i go in and answer their questions along with a diabetic nurse. If we educate the future children then people will see what diabetes is about and not just think about you cannot have sugar.

 

[slip]

When was your daughter diagnosed? I assume around the start of the school year? it would then be understandable that she took some time off school during the first few months - her attendance % should only increase as time goes on.....

 

[Mrs.Walcott]

Hi all. Sorry for the delayed update.

I haven’t an issue with the school saying that they can’t take my diabetic child away. The problem I have is they made that decision knowing nothing about her diabetes or needs. The only reason I was given was her attendance.
My daughter was diagnosed 2 years ago. From January, her attendance has been a lot better. Getting better all the time ( trip isn’t until October) On average, she’s had roughly a week per month off. These absences are not all diabetes related. She’s had tonsillitis, was sent home from school through passing out ( not diabetes related) Hospital appointments, doctors appointments for bloods and heart monitoring due to the passing out, as well as family therapy sessions ( once a month) . I could understand ,if to be able to go on the trip, you had to have an attendance above a certain percent. This is not the case. This only matters with my daughter. I can also understand the not wanting to take responsibility. Really I do.
What I do have a problem with is that they said she couldn’t go because of her attendance since September. This and the fact that “when they have taken other diabetics away before they’ve had problems with them through the night”
The school have a responsibility to have at least one member of staff trained in how to deal with any problems a diabetic may have whilst at school. The pdsn’s ho Into schools to do this training. Free of charge. My daughters school have only first aid trained staff.
I spoke to my daughters pdsn and consultant. They were both in agreement that there is no reason why Kodi should not go on the trip.The pdsn said she would go into school and train any relevant staff and answer any questions the school may have. I emailed the contact details for both to the head teacher at school a fortnight ago. I’m still waiting on a response. I sent a second email, to the same head teacher, asking if it was possible to arrange a meeting to discuss the progress of their decision. 3 days later, still no response. No one has contacted either the consultant or the pdsn.
If I’m honest, I don’t want my daughter to go. That is from a worried mum. I do however want my daughter to know that diabetes shouldn’t stop you from doing anything. I want her to know that just because she’s a diabetic she should not be treated any different from anyone else.
I will say again, just because a child with a disability is not allowed to go on a school trip that does not mean it has been discrimination. If the situation has been reviewed, using facts and speaking to professionals and it has been agreed that it’s not in the child’s best interest, fine. I would have to agree. If the professionals had said she shouldn’t go, I would of let it go. That wouldn’t be discrimination.
What I do class as discrimination is :-
*saying my child can’t go based on past experiences with other diabetics.
*using only my daughters attendance as evidence of problems with her condition.
* not discussing the concerns with either myself or a healthcare profession before making a decision.
*not completing a risk assessment to determine the risk of her going.
* not making reasonable adjustments ( under the disability discrimination act it states that schools should make reasonable adjustments) This doesn’t need to be anything huge. Having one of the attending staff trained by the pdsn would suffice.

With the above and the fact that they are now ignoring me. As well as not having contacted the consultant or pdsn in almost a fortnight, I’d say it’s discrimination. Never mind down right rude. I’m giving the hideouts head until Monday to reply.
If I get no response, my next step will be a face to face meeting with the head teacher.

I’m also still waiting for the copy of the disability/equality policy that I asked to see in the first meeting. She didn’t know where to find it and assured me she would email me the copy...

 

[slip]

If I get no response, my next step will be a face to face meeting with the head teacher.

No doubt it will end with the face to face meeting but please stay calm and courteous when it happens - reading your post I just imagined the more you typed the crosser and more furious you got, understandably!