Breakfast

Andy41

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Messages
50
Type of diabetes
LADA
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi @Andy41, my way of reasoning out after breakfast BSLs (I am assuming the 18 mmol/l is at the 2 hour mark after eating breakfast) is that the level is a balance of how many carbs and types of carbs and protein in and when; how much insulin and how determined, what type/brand of insulin used and when; what factors are influencing insulin sensitivity; and other factors not under direct control such as any intercurrent illness, the season, weather etc.
This above and below is from my own personal exploration of things and experimentation. It was not written as professional advice or opinion. A dietitian, DSN/doctor are your advisors and the ones to provide answers.
1) Taking carbs as an example: If you look up mendosa.com - Glycaemic values (and definitions for GI and GL) - Cereals of GI > 55 and GL > 10, tend to raise BSLS more quickly than those with figures below those levels. And looking further, if you add say, milk to the mix, the GI levels are lower. So adding something with fat in it slows passage of food from stomach to small intestine (where absorption takes place). So one way I can influence and reduce myBSL rise after breakfast is to eat low GI/GL cereals in appropriate but not too large amount, with other additions like suggested in other answers like yoghurt, cheese, eggs etc.which may slow and flatten the BSL rise.
2) Also some of us have been advised/taught how to calculate units of short-acting insulin per number of carbs (in grams), so that if the breakfast intake varies, the insulin dose is altered to best "match' the amount of carbs eaten. There are courses run which teach persons this - others on site are more au fait with these UK run courses than me, an Aussie.
3) If you google 'graphs or pictures of insulin profiles', you can see how the amount of particular injected insulin in the blood rises over time. For one brand of short-acting (bolus) insulin this may show a peak at 1 to 2 hours after injection but with another, some 2 to 3 hours after injection. Of course these levels are the drug company's results of testing on people and so represent an average of what these insulins blood levels are. So .. if I have a bowl of high GI cereal in hot water plus a sweetened OJ for breakfast which gives me a peak BSL at say one and one-half hours and inject just before breakfast a particular bolus insulin which typically peaks in its effect at say 2 and one half hours, the BSL peak is not necessarily going to be matched and 'combatted' well by the insulin. And in fact if I, in frustration, keep upping the insulin dose more and more with the same breakfast I can end up with still a high BSL at one and one-half hours AND a hypo later as the insulin peak at 2 and one half hours pushed the blood sugar down. The hypo may cause a rebound of BSL as glucagon and adrenaline are released plus whatever I have eaten to combat the hypo and I go into high bsl range again!! So in the past I would talk with my doctor about this: 3 main options a) change to a quicker-acting insulin b) change to lower GI/GL food plus more fat to bring the BSL peak to nearer the insulin peak c) alter the timing of insulin injection vs intake of food (e.g. in the above example, have bolus injection, wait 45 minutes or so and then have breakfast so that the insulin peak best meets the BSL peak. Again, these are all things to discuss with your health professional team first.
4) There is a thing called the Dawn Phenomenon (DFP) and in the Home section of this site under 'Type 1' you can find some info about it. DP leads to a situation where our bodies may become more resistant to insulin (= lowered insulin sensitivity) in the early morning, from say 4 am approx. onward) and glucose may be released more readily from the liver. Not every T1D has this happen or not all the time according to the info. But a higher than normal BSL first thing in the morning (called fasting BSL) may be a sign of DP (among other causes). So if insulin works less well in the morning more insulin may be needed then for a given amount of carbs than say for lunchtime or evening meal. And if fasting BSL is high, that adds onto the subsequent rise of BSL after breakfast. The idea of some exercise on waking, as suggested above, is to try to improve insulin sensitivity. But if you are keen enough to test BSLs say at 4 am, 6 am and then just before breakfast, a couple of times, you then have some readings to discuss with your dsn/doctor and see what they suggest.
5) because of the BSL rises after food some TID, including on site, actually stick to a low carb diet (see on Home page under 'Food and Recipes'). Lower carb intake = less insulin required (as a general rule). Low carb diets are endorsed by the NHS, but usually I gather for T2Ds. However for some T1Ds low carb appears to work well.
6) the other easy to measure factor is weight. The more we eat the more insulin may be required (particularly if carbs are a major part of one's diet) and the higher one's weight goes. Added weight can affect insulin sensitivity, up goes the weight, up goes the insulin dose(a vicious cycle). Yes, if one exercises a lot you may well be able to keep weight in normal range but again another reason to check with your health team about how appropriate your diet is.
Best Wishes.

Thanks kitedoc. I’ve read this a couple of times now and take a few more bits of advice each time. I’m guessing you’ve got all this down to a fine art!
 

kitedoc

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4,783
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
black jelly beans
Thanks kitedoc. I’ve read this a couple of times now and take a few more bits of advice each time. I’m guessing you’ve got all this down to a fine art!
Hi @Andy41, It makes things more predictable and for me, having less carbs has helped too. Typical (but not super-rapid to prepare) breakfast: Novorapid first as bolus: 1/2 to 1 tablespoon of oats, 2 tablespoons of chia, 2 tablespoons of psyllium husk, one each of flaxseed powder and hemp powder, splash of black pepper, tumeric, cinnamon and nutmeg: add boiling water, leave 25 minutes, meantime 1 or 2 boiled eggs and cup of coffee (with milk). Coffee and eggs first and at the 30 minutes after Novorapid injection - add milk to cereal mix and eat.
Good luck !!
 

alphabeta

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Messages
615
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Plain yoghurt? Boiled eggs with mayonaise? Omelet with tasty filling made the day before and eaten cold or zapped in microwave? Bit of cheese /cold meat/cucumber/tomato? Leftovers from yesterdays dinner?

How long after eating breakfast does it take to get back to reasonable numbers? I found I need way more fast acting in the morning then I need later in the day. I also found I need a substantial amount of fast acting just to counter 'feet on the floor effect' ,even if I don't have breakfast.
Can you tell me how do you prepare bliled eggs with mayo?
 
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Can you tell me how do you prepare bliled eggs with mayo?
I interpret "boiled eggs with mayo" as "boil some eggs, let them cool, peel, chop, add mayo."
It has been a standard sandwich filling in the May household since bread was sliced.
 
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alphabeta

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Messages
615
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
I interpret "boiled eggs with mayo" as "boil some eggs, let them cool, peel, chop, add mayo."
It has been a standard sandwich filling in the May household since bread was sliced.
Oh I thought it was something else... I usually avoid mayo for no reason but I will try this one.
 
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becca59

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2,867
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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Insulin
Sounds good. I will try this. I’ve got loads of frozen blackberries!

Picked a shed load of brambles (sorry don’t call them blackberries in my neck of the woods!) just for my low carb breakfasts. 80g of brambles 100g of Lidl yoghurt - 10 carbs. Used to love 2 Shredded Wheat with cold milk but as have DP and morning rising sugars until 2pm had to put up the white flag and move on.
 

Brendon.Dean

Well-Known Member
Messages
136
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
High Intensity Interval Training.
Although, for me, this rises my BG so wouldn't be much help.

Dang that's horrible does it happen to you regardless? Before or after meals and or if you do fasted HIIT?

I have a type 1 Aussie on instagram I follow who says he solved his spike in glucose by doing a slow warm up followed by his HIIT; maybe that could work for you?
 

Acheron05

Member
Messages
5
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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Insulin
2-3 eggs in the pan with two slices of low carb toast and half a tomato, seasoned with black pepper and hot sauce. Takes less than 8 minutes. Routine.
 
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Dang that's horrible does it happen to you regardless? Before or after meals and or if you do fasted HIIT?

I have a type 1 Aussie on instagram I follow who says he solved his spike in glucose by doing a slow warm up followed by his HIIT; maybe that could work for you?
I always do a slow warm up - it takes me 10 minutes to walk to the gym which is my warm up.
I don't mind not doing HIIT and concentrate on a longer run on the treadmill or cross trainer.

If I really get an urge to HIIT, I could up my basal on my pump.
But that would not help with this thread: to avoid post-breakfast highs.
 
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Brendon.Dean

Well-Known Member
Messages
136
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
I always do a slow warm up - it takes me 10 minutes to walk to the gym which is my warm up.
I don't mind not doing HIIT and concentrate on a longer run on the treadmill or cross trainer.

If I really get an urge to HIIT, I could up my basal on my pump.
But that would not help with this thread: to avoid post-breakfast highs.

Yeah, I hear ya.
 

smc4761

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,039
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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Insulin
Picked a shed load of brambles (sorry don’t call them blackberries in my neck of the woods!) just for my low carb breakfasts. 80g of brambles 100g of Lidl yoghurt - 10 carbs. Used to love 2 Shredded Wheat with cold milk but as have DP and morning rising sugars until 2pm had to put up the white flag and move on.

Thats very similar to myself Becca59. Only discovered the joys of Greek style yoghurt and I use frozen berries (left out the night before). I do however use about 180-220 g of yoghurt but still lowish carbs

With the cold weather coming soon though my try porridge again, made with half water/milk and salt