employment

chriswhite

Newbie
Messages
1
Hi, my son has recently shown an interest in joining the royal air force, to my suprise after contacting them today i found out that he cannot join any of the armed forces due to his diabetes. I cannot understand why, in the 21'st century the armed forces cannot find a position in their organisation for diabetics, most of them lead a normal life and manage their diabetes very well so why should they be able to discriminate in this way. If anyone can help please let me know. Many thanks Darren.
 

sugarless sue

Master
Messages
10,098
Dislikes
Rude people! Not being able to do the things I want to do.
No one's answered so I will try.In a past life I had several cadets refused entry into the RAF.They can afford to pick and chose I'm afraid!Some had medical conditions and one was even refused because her arms were too short for a pilot!I think that the armed forces do not come under the same disability discrimination that other employers do,it would be worth checking out.
A way in without joining however is that a lot of RAF ground services on Stations are now civilian contractors.He may get in that way and be on the bases without actually being a member of the forces.
 

LittleSue

Well-Known Member
Messages
647
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
The armed forces are definitely not covered by the Disability Discrimination Act. They can refuse refuse applicants regardless of whether the condition would affect the role the person wanted to perform. Eg a diabetic can be refused regardless of whether they want to be a pilot, nurse or cleaner, even though diabetics can perform those roles in civvy street.
 

Geoff

Well-Known Member
Messages
90
As regards being a pilot with diabetes, There is a very good reason why a diabetic who uses insulin is refused, that is, if you go hypo wile flying a thirty million pounds piece of high tech metal is going to fall out of the sky and kill a lot of people.

I used to fly gliders before I became a type 1 diabetic, now that pleasure is gone because of the above reason.
 

LittleSue

Well-Known Member
Messages
647
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Hi Geoff

About a year ago a Cardiologist (and private pilot) who did CAA pilot medicals told me the rules had changed, diabetics on insulin could fly solo. I checked the FAA website, which said you had to keep a meter strapped to your leg and test frequently during flight (every 15 mins I think) and follow a protocol depending on the results. I thought it looked unworkable, forcing you to eat carbs if bs was perfectly okay and regardless if it was going down or stable. You'd end up too high and have to land because of that, whereas if pumping or background dose right, without the extra carbs you could've stayed ok for ages.

Having looked today I can't find anything like that, maybe people tried and found it unworkable.

I wouldn't want uncontrolled insulin users flying planes. But it seems pointless saying you can do it and then setting rules that make it practically impossible.

Sue
 

iHs

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,595
Hi

Regarding flying or any job that would prove very dangerous hypo wise is to invest in a continuous glucose meter. I know of a couple of pumpers who have bought one of these and would not be without them.

The only drawback is the price. Medtronic do one called the Guardian and also Abbott Medisense have now launched the Navigator in the UK.
 

Jem

Well-Known Member
Messages
570
Dislikes
People that feel just because diabates is a life-threatening "illness" it should be treated with kid gloves and nobody is allowed to have a laugh. My humour got me through abuse, near death experiences, serious and debilitating illnesses and lifelong pain and deformity - why give up the thing that works??
A few years ago, I was led to understand that one of the theories was that if the insulin dependant service-person was captured and held by "enemy" hands that their life would be in danger "above and outside of the "normal" danger associated with such a position and possibility) because vital medication "could" either be withheld or hard to obtain over extended periods of time or due to locations ... and the government wouldn't want to be sued I suppose!
 

Special_K

Member
Messages
18
I can sympathise with the first post.

I did the same. I was a cadet for years and was going to join the RAF when diagnosed with Type 1. That was that dream gone.

In the eyes of the DDA a member of the Armed Forces must be considered as combat effective no matter what trade they fill (even driving a desk is out of the question at the moment). Therefore unfortunately this excludes any diabetic from service.

I would keep one eye on the DDA as I understand there have been some changes that now mean that diabetics can now join the police (with good control of BM's). As I think was mentioned earlier but has your son thought of joining any of the cadet forces, I am now an adult instructor and get to partake in many of the opportunites available to regular personell (albeit on a smaller scale)
 

grh1904

Active Member
Messages
40
chriswhite said:
Hi, my son has recently shown an interest in joining the royal air force, to my suprise after contacting them today i found out that he cannot join any of the armed forces due to his diabetes. I cannot understand why, in the 21'st century the armed forces cannot find a position in their organisation for diabetics, most of them lead a normal life and manage their diabetes very well so why should they be able to discriminate in this way. If anyone can help please let me know. Many thanks Darren.

I spent almost 12 years in the RAF, and I was aware of at least two diabetics. Both were diagnosed after joining. One was my old Warrant Officer and he was about 53, staying in on a 55 age engagment (Warrant Officers can stay in until age 55). He was allowed to remain in, but had certain restrictions, ie never allowed to leave the UK, not allowed to participate in exercises, and a whole load of stuff like that. He was T2.

The other was a chap who I did the discharge paperwork for, again a T2 diagnosed a couple fo years previous. he was a Corporal, who was allowed to serve out his engagement but was also banned from promotion etc, and similar restrictions to my WO.

I do feel that your comments above would start to provide a discrimination against any non diabetics in the RAF. Watch "WARZONE" on a Monday night on Channel 5, it features the RAF very heavily, in Afghanistan. I know people that in the last 4-5 years have done 3 sometimes 4 tours there, each one a minimum of 4 months, sometimes 6. Couple to this the requirment to staff locations in Kosovo, the Falklands etc.

If your son joined, (filling one of the perceived vacancies that the RAF has this financial year), he would not be allowed to serve in Afghanistan/ Iraq/Falklands/Kosovo etc. That means that those non-diabetics in the RAF will have their return tours come around that much more often. In essence what I'm saying is that it's not right for the RAF to create a post just to have a diabetic join up. That is different however if a service person is diagnosed during their service, they can continue to serve albeit with restrictions.

I can understand your frustrations that in this modern day and age, medical advances, DDA etc, your son is prevented from following his dreams, but as has been mentioned in other replies, ALL service personnel are first and foremost fighting personnel. Yes someone may be an aircraft mechanic who only ever sees a weapon twice per year (once on their weapons refresher training and then the other time when they maybe do a weekend on guard duty), but in places like Khandahar/Camp Bastion etc they are required to carry arms and carry out regular guard duties.

Because of the nature of operations out there, some personnel work 16-20 hour shifts, get about 8 hours standdown before returning to duty. The temperature is regularly 40 degress plus. The RAF Regiment go out and patrol/secure the air base perimeter for 4 days at a time, sleeping rough/in landrovers. It's quite obvious that any diabetics would really struggle to maintain their BG in tolerable ranges. Could the RAF rely on the safety of an aircraft where the diabetic engineer has just pulled a 16 hour shift to carry out a repair/equipment change between sorties, where the engineer only got a snack break, or eat something small like a piece of fruit while they worked????

I don't want this to sound negative or condescending in any way, it's just meant to point out some of the realities of modern military service.

That said I'm a Police officer now, (just over 7 years service), that last 4 of which have been as a diabetic. Initially diagnosed as T2 on oral meds etc, but was then moved onto insulin in June 2007.
Other than not being allowed to become a Firearms officer, or PSU (Police Support Unit - riot cops to the layman!!!!), I'm allowed to apply for any role I want, subject to a medical to show I'm maintaining good BG control.