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"Apologia" lol

In the nicest possible way-might be better to word your posts a bit more simpler then folks won't possibly misconstrue the point you're trying to get across.

or single line sentances if you want me to read them at all


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Having tried to wade through your other threads, and failing, I rather get the impression that words moreso than food are your passion!
However, please don't think you are the only diabetic who has a passion for food.....Maybe it's time for you to set aside the longings you have for the old days and develop a more positive approach to the various meat, fish, green veg, cheese, eggs, butter and cream dishes so beloved by those of us who choose a low carb high fat lifestyle.....Utterly delicious and in many cases, quite decadent

It seems obvious to me that you have a mastery of the English language and a wonderfully rich vocabulary.

If I said that I did not enjoy reading how you use the language I would not be entirely truthful.

However language should be a tool to facilitate effective communication not be a barrier to it. Effective communication is a two way affair and involves two or more parties sharin a common mutually understood language.

In my humble opinion in order to communicate effectively you need to start with at least a basic understanding of your audience and use the language that is appropriate and comprehensible to them.

Members of this forum come from a variety of backgrounds and probably have widely different educational levels and interests. I will hazard a guess though that there are probably very few if any classics or literature scholars amongst us. Your posts often read as if that is the target audience you have in mind. I suspect that you may be doing this unwittingly. I get the feeling that a lot of what you write ( your original posts on a thread) are addressed more to yourself than anyone else out there.

I suspect that the language you chose to use has the additional disadvantage that to the average user of the forum identifies you as someone different/possibly superior to themselves. It is difficult to empathize and offer support to someone that one perceives as being different/superior to oneself.

Worse still, it is very easy to feel antagonistic towards someone who some might perceive as trying to show off how clever/educated/knowledgable he is. I am not saying that this is what you are doing. I am merely saying that some may perceive things this way.

Why "apologia" for instance? It is a beautiful Greek word but why not just use "an apology". Use "apologia" and you risk half the people on the forum not getting the literary reference and quite a few of the rest possibly thinking that you are being pretentious.

Which is all a great shame, as you are someone that could use and deserves the advise and support of this forum.

You were only relatively recently diagnosed last January and you are understandably still in some shock from this.

You are frightened, also understandably, from the possible serious complications that diabetes can bring about.

You are also confused from the myriad conflicting information out there on what a diabetic should or should not eat.

Your fear and confusion have led you to the rather extreme conclusion that the only safe thing to eat is some chicken breast with either a few leaves of lettuce or half a cup of cooked carrots.

Not surprisingly you have managed to bring your glucose levels down.

But

Is this diet sustainable in the long term? Even if sustainable, Is it even a desirable long term diet? Does it provide you with all the nutrients , vitamins, trace elements etc necessary for good health? I have my doubts.

Would you be able to stick to such a diet long term. Not surprisingly you are already experiencing feelings of deprivation and longing for quality carbohydrate rich food. How long before you give in to temptation?

Many have already offered excellent advise and support to you, I am sure that many more would also do so if you allowed them to by making what you write a little more plain. The language may not be as beautiful then but it will be, I suspect ,more effective.

Pavlos

PS please take this rather too long reply as friendly advise, not as yet more criticism from me.

At the end of the day, English is not even my native tongue, so I am probably the least qualified on here to tell anyone how to use it!


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Hello.

Sorry your Apologia aroused these rather unsympathetic responses.

I'm sure I'm not the only person on here who appreciates different ways of trying to communicate accurately. As we keep saying, we're all different! And I do think we're here to offer support to those who we perceive as "different" from ourselves. (Different isn't doesn't equal superior).

Personally I have problems with the posts which include text and other shortened forms. I do try really hard but often give up on understanding them. I look things up if I'm not sure what's being said or implied rather than shooting off replies. But I wouldn't suggest talking down to this Forum because we're in the main not well educated (which I dispute but in any case life experience is an education). You must feel you can't win - being told you're elitist etc and then to talk down to us. Criticism of someone's style of writing can be felt as a very personal attack and therefore upsetting.

I do understand that an apology isn't the same thing as an Apologia and that you were trying to be accurate in your communication.

The most important thing is getting on with living successfully with diabetes. Thanks for sharing your feelings which are very real to you. I hope that we can help you work out a diet which will respect your health and your need for good tasting food. As you've already seen lots of people are happy to offer practical basic suggestions for eating and will answer specific questions about methods, etc. I'm working hard on bread substitutes at present!

Keep going - it will all get better, but allow your grieving.

Jane.

@chris9996 ..... Years ago I watched a film called Tom Jones, think it originated from a book by Henry Fielding, anyway...there was a scene which involved the lead character and one of the female stars eating fruit, think it was pears. It was the most messy, and sensuous sequence involving food that I've ever seen.... I don't think it was an X rated film because it didn't go any further................lol.

janewatt said:

Hello.

Sorry your Apologia aroused these rather unsympathetic responses.

I'm sure I'm not the only person on here who appreciates different ways of trying to communicate accurately. As we keep saying, we're all different! And I do think we're here to offer support to those who we perceive as "different" from ourselves. (Different isn't doesn't equal superior).

Personally I have problems with the posts which include text and other shortened forms. I do try really hard but often give up on understanding them. I look things up if I'm not sure what's being said or implied rather than shooting off replies. But I wouldn't suggest talking down to this Forum because we're in the main not well educated (which I dispute but in any case life experience is an education). You must feel you can't win - being told you're elitist etc and then to talk down to us. Criticism of someone's style of writing can be felt as a very personal attack and therefore upsetting.

I do understand that an apology isn't the same thing as an Apologia and that you were trying to be accurate in your communication.

The most important thing is getting on with living successfully with diabetes. Thanks for sharing your feelings which are very real to you. I hope that we can help you work out a diet which will respect your health and your need for good tasting food. As you've already seen lots of people are happy to offer practical basic suggestions for eating and will answer specific questions about methods, etc. I'm working hard on bread substitutes at present!

Keep going - it will all get better, but allow your grieving.

Jane.

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Dear Jane

I sincerely hope that you are right and that I am wrong.

I hope that people have no difficulty following Touchett's writing, that no misinterpretation of his true meaning takes place and that he gets no antagonistic responses as a result.

Not least because I have already admitted that I enjoy reading what he writes because of the richness of the language rather than despite of it.

Yet it is clear to me that enough of a misunderstanding has taken place for Touchett to feel the need to post this Apologia.

I was guilty of misunderstanding and reacting adversely to an earlier post by Touchett myself. A reaction I later regretted, when I had a chance to understand what was really behind his words.

Even her Apologia has resulted in more "negative" responses, judging from the first replies that followed it.

I was puzzled why this should be, and sought to answer my own question in my own reply that followed

What I wrote, just like my many earlier responses on other threads initiated by Touchett, had only one motive: to assist and advise her to the best of my ability and based on nothing more than one man's opinion and experience. One man who is by no stretch of the imagination an expert on medical or nutritional matters, any more than he is an expert on literary or linguistic issues.

As I freely admit, my native tongue is Greek and English only a second language ( although I do consider myself reasonably fluent in it).

Apologia is a Greek word by the way and can have multiple meanings in Greek at least: one being an apology, another being the response given in Court or otherwise by an accused person in his defense - Socrates apologia being a very famous example of the latter.

I accept that criticism of one's writing style can feel very personal and hurtful. To hurt was never my intention and in turn I apologize if my words ended up having that effect.

My main concern was, and probably still is, that the language may be getting in the way of the message. That the writing style may be suitable for expressing Touchett's feelings but perhaps sometimes making it difficult for others appreciating and responding to the real issues involved.

I guess our views are inevitably shaped by our own experiences and backgrounds. My own particular background is in the world of financial advisory services. I have years of experience in drafting professional advisory reports and in my world the clarity, simplicity and ease of accessibility of a writing style is a much more valued characteristic than the beauty of the words used or the inclusion of allusions to literary or other works. I guess in my world the message is king and the writing style it's servant not vice versa!

I did not make any assumptions about the forums level of intelligence or education. I merely pointed out that we all come from different educational backgrounds and may not all of us share his knowledge of literature or the classics. After all, I believe that the idea that one could not be well educated unless one studied the classics is one that has long since been superseded.

Anyway, I applaud both the sentiment and the content of your response. I hope more people share your opinion.

I am not sure you that you are right but I for one, sincerely hope that you are!

Pavlos






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I love the way they write - leave him alone. (is it a him?). My personal pet hate is mis-spelling, but I certainly wouldn't pull someone up about it.

Touchette has mentioned on another thread that she is in fact a girl.

All, Touchett is a very recently diagnosed diabetic and we've all been there and understand how much of a shock it can be. He/ she is not here selling false cures or thrusting diets down our throats. The writing style may well be a bit more poetic than we 're used to but I don't think we should give anyone a hard time over that ? As usual, if you don't like the thread, don't read it ! There are plenty of others we can comment on.


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I for one do not see any reason for you to apologise I read your original post and saw nothing offensive in it at all. I read it as just someone having a bit of a bad day and really missing the foods you used to eat and having a good old rant about it and who doesn't feel like that.....what I wouldn't give for a very large chunk of the crusty artisan olive or sundried tomato bread I used to have with my cheese now it is a ryvita cracker... the list is endless
I did not read the replies to your original post so was quite amazed to read on this thread that it did offend anyone can't for the life of me think why so don't feel bad about it you just said how you were feeling

I just went back and read your post and it was exactly what I've been trying to articulate. Thank you, your words spoke to me!


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I agree, no one should have to apologise for their writing style, it's just part of who you are! And I like touchette's way of putting her feelings into words. Although I can't claim I am / was a lover of artisanal food, I definitely understand what it's like when there are certain dishes you miss so badly and can't have them any longer like before diabetes.

I like the way Touchett writes and her name makes me think of 'Portrait of a Lady'. I also like the way Pavlos writes. I also like the way everyone writes on here. It's great how everyone is so different: you could never be bored. Puzzling over what people mean is interesting. I feel that Touchett's reaction to diagnosis is understandable and will probably change in due course when it becomes possible to see that diabetes is not necessarily such a bind as it now appears. Meanwhile, we're all different: I'm just about to go and listen to the Archers. Are you?

@lizdeluz ..... Yes, I too am an Archers fan

i agree with pav, im thick and therefore this may as well be greek, im an extremely uneducated person and find the tone condersending, which is my problem not touchets, but i understand the point pav is trying to make, it isnt an attack on anyone, hes as always just trying to help in my opinion which im entitled to, i may or not have anything useful to say but this language is excluding me from that possibility which im sure is no loss i dont see any need for an appology either and one was never requested, in the same way im happy for pav to ask questions in greek, it wouldnt upset me i just wouldnt understand it, which proves the point, if he was to do that im sure we would soon tell him that most people here dont speak greek therefore he would be better off speaking english if he could, this isnt english as i know it, its like reading shakespear, and if folks liked it so much why didnt they offer advice rather than offering criticism from the one person trying to help? imho