Adding a few more carbs into diet

[vxrich]

So I've been lchf for just over 2 months now, seen the weight loss and much improved bs and hba1c. But the 2 main problems that I'm facing now are:

1. A niggling headache, not painful but kinda just there?

2. Feel quite lethargic and not getting the full of energy feeling people talk about?

I take plenty of vitamins etc as recommended by other athletes.

I have had a few bouts of illness over the last few months so it could all be down to that but.....

I started to read a book called the low carb athlete last night and it recommends not eating many carbs throughout the day ie be in a state of ketosis, but after a training session (preferably before an evening meal) eat a meal with carbs in. Not enough to take you out of ketosis but enough to replenish. Now I've been eating <20g carbs per day and I'm going to try and up it to around 45g with this carb meal after training. However would I still need to bolus for protein for this carb meal? And does anybody eat like this post training?

 

[tim2000s]

However would I still need to bolus for protein for this carb meal? And does anybody eat like this post training?

You'll need to test to find out. Some of us do, some of us don't. What I tend to find is that if the protein weight is more than the carb weight, I need to manage the gluconeogenesis effect, so inject later. Very much dependent on you though. In terms of eating carbs within your replenishment threshold, one of the LC weightlifters (I don't remember which one) has written extensively on the subject. Worth googling for it.

 

[vxrich]

Time will tell, just had some sweet potato, cauliflower cheese and left over beef. Bolused for the lot!
Really don't want to go down this route but I've gotta do something to get feeling good again. Got loads of training ahead of me and really don't want to be worrying about diet and ketones constantly. And definitely not going back to a carbilicious way of life!!

 

[vxrich]

Well there you go! Upped my carbs after training, bolused for carbs, half protein and 10%fat and bs is spot on and ketones are 2.2. Not complaining but thought the carbs would bring the ketone levels down?

 

[tim2000s]

Well there you go! Upped my carbs after training, bolused for carbs, half protein and 10%fat and bs is spot on and ketones are 2.2. Not complaining but thought the carbs would bring the ketone levels down?

It's a bit more complex. When your muscles are rebuilding their glycogen stores after a heavy weights or hiit session, you are able to eat more carbs as they are purely being used for the refeed. As a result, you don't use the carbs as an energy source, and therefore don't fall out of ketosis. The exact levels are rather individual. I'll see if I can find the links discussing this later.

 

[ElyDave]

would that also apply to carbs taken during exercise?

As an example I'm trying to stay around 50g/day at the moment, Ketones are around 1.2.- 1.5.

Id I take 15g carbs immediately before or during an hours run or turbo trainer session, is this going to cause a problem with staying in ketosis if as a result I end up going above the 50g/day. Logically it would suggest not as those carbs are going directly to fuelling the exercise rather than raising blood sugar.

But what about a long bike ride or running session, including an ultramarathon where I may be consuming 20-40g carbs/hr to stop BG falling (even with basal rate reduced and no bolus).

EDIT - should add I'm re-reading Phinney and Volek but finding this bit unclear so far.

 

[tim2000s]

would that also apply to carbs taken during exercise?

As an example I'm trying to stay around 50g/day at the moment, Ketones are around 1.2.- 1.5.

Id I take 15g carbs immediately before or during an hours run or turbo trainer session, is this going to cause a problem with staying in ketosis if as a result I end up going above the 50g/day. Logically it would suggest not as those carbs are going directly to fuelling the exercise rather than raising blood sugar.

But what about a long bike ride or running session, including an ultramarathon where I may be consuming 20-40g carbs/hr to stop BG falling (even with basal rate reduced and no bolus).

EDIT - should add I'm re-reading Phinney and Volek but finding this bit unclear so far.

I'm not sure about this @ElyDave. In the context of weight training and anaerobic exercise, where the body uses the glycogen to power the muscles as anaerobic exercise needs glucose, this makes sense.

In the context of an ultramarathon, where you are predominantly operating in an aerobic fashion, in theory at least, you should be able to perform burning fat alone, and in theory it would be preferable. I can see that on a Turbo trainer, this might not be the case, as I've observed on high intensity cycling that I get a liver dump. It may be that your basal rate on an ultra marathon should be even lower than you currently use!

 

[ElyDave]

I'm not sure about this @ElyDave. In the context of weight training and anaerobic exercise, where the body uses the glycogen to power the muscles as anaerobic exercise needs glucose, this makes sense.

In the context of an ultramarathon, where you are predominantly operating in an aerobic fashion, in theory at least, you should be able to perform burning fat alone, and in theory it would be preferable. I can see that on a Turbo trainer, this might not be the case, as I've observed on high intensity cycling that I get a liver dump. It may be that your basal rate on an ultra marathon should be even lower than you currently use!

That's my next experiment

 

[Brunneria]

Jusp popping in (type 2) to say that the niggling headache may be because you aren't drinking enough.

Easiest way to test this theory is to glug a lot (say, a litre) of water and see if it goes away.