Alpha Lipoic Acid

Hi @Tim55 has posted previously of their benefits.
I cannot afford to buy them on a regular basis at mo. Hoping that will change.
Mind u I eat all of the above. Regularly now.

Hi Bewbushman.

As Ickihun says, I am a fan. I take it along with methyl cobolamine and Benfothiamin and I believe it is helping both with my neuropathy and other muscle weakness issues.

It also seemed to assist with my FBG levels too - since taking ALA I have halved my Metformin dose and still maintain good control.

When I ran out for a few days my FBG levels definitely rose and they fell back again once i resumed taking it.

I have just added L-acetyl cartinine as well as it is supposed to improve the effectiveness of ALA but i can't comment on that yet.

I found the thread "Help in dealing with Neuropathy" very informative - its in the "Complications" section.

Cheers

Tim

been taking it for two months but not noticed any improvement on my neuropathy

numan43 said:

been taking it for two months but not noticed any improvement on my neuropathy

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How are your bgs?
I think low bgs have to be in play too.
It's the high bgs causing damage.
Mind u it could be preventing more damage?

ickihun said:

How are your bgs?
I think low bgs have to be in play too.
It's the high bgs causing damage.
Mind u it could be preventing more damage?

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blood levels been steady for 9 months since starting lchf in march so dont really know of any benefits of the ala but i will give it another 30 days as surely 3 months would be enough time to see a difference

numan43 said:

blood levels been steady for 9 months since starting lchf in march so dont really know of any benefits of the ala but i will give it another 30 days as surely 3 months would be enough time to see a difference

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Are you in the same pain or has the pain changed?
I read that whilst the nerve repairs it can be painful.
Give it a good chance if you can.
Hope to hear of an improvement.
Ps. Just seen an article about research in a protein to help too.
Fingers crossed some relief might be on it's way.

my next port of call will be the local chinese medicine and acupuncture centre as I have given mainstream docs and nurses 10 or so years with no success in treating me...you'll prob think Im nuts but I also tried 6 weeks of laser light therapy with no success.

ALA can be prescribed by doctors in most EU countries except UK. it is a standard treatment for neuropathy. I have used it myself, but without much significant effect. It seemed to have a small effect on my fasting bgl, but did less for my pain than an aspirin. As I understand it ALA comes in two flavours ALA-L and ALA-R. One of these is the active form, the other goes straight down the drain. Forget which is which, and since the one I want is expensive and not really available in UK then for me it is an academic exercise.

i was told to use the r+ type

I believe it is a standard treatment for neuropathy in conjunction with vitamin B12, did you take both or just the ALA?

Also I am a little surprised by your "two flavours" comment.

The terms r(+) and s(-) or R and L are used to describe compounds which exist as two different shapes, each of which is the mirror image of the other. These are properly called enatiomers and such compounds are said to be "optically active"

No need to go into this in any more detail - think of it having a left-handed and a right-handed form.

Under normal manufacturing conditions there is no reason for one form to be formed over the other, so conventional synthesis will result in a 50;50 mixture of the two forms, properly described as the racemate, or racemic form.

It is possible to make a pure, single enantiomer, but only by either destroying the other, or by using a starting material which is itself a single enantiomer, so pure enantiomers are considerably more expensive to make than the racemate.

So what i am getting at is this. It may well be that the r(+) form is the one we want, and a manufacturing route will probably exist, but yes, it will be dear.

The alternative may well a racemate in which case taking it would mean half of it would be useful to you, the other half would not, but it is unlikely the impotent half would do you any harm.

I don't actually know what I am taking, TBH, but I now aim to find out...

Two flavours implies they are different isomers like Dextrose and Sucrose are two isomers of sugar. I used a figure of speech as a colloquilism rather than use technical terms that need a Phd in chemistry. i am only a Bsc myself. Yes the H&B ALA is a mixture, but when i enquired it was predominately the -L form.

Pure R-ALA is not very stable and is heat, light and moisture degraded. It has a short shelf life and so is not stocked in health shops. Those bodybuilders will know and use the Na-RALA form which has been stabilised. This form is quite readily available now in the UK. (I nearly said freely available, but of course it comes at a price.) Bodybuilders tend to use R-ALA in conjunction with L-Carnitine for best effect.

Ok mate, I see we are on a similar wavelength - I'm no Phd either, merely C,Chem MRSC, but I did spend a considerable part of my career bringing an optically active version of a phenoxy herbicide to market.

Very surprised if I am honest to see such references on here - you use flavours, I prefer Left or right handed, but I guess we both know what we mean.

I come back to it though, yes, pure r(+) might be ideal, but the racemate will be probably be helpful too. I doubt anyone has made the effort to purify s(-) and so you can probably buy either pure r flavour, or a mix of r and s, both of which may be helpful if - and only if - your problems are those that might be helped by it.

But actually, I think you are not quite right with your differentiation between isomers and enantiomers - isomers are structurally different while enantiomers are structurally identical, just with a chiral centre.

ok you two, is there any way i can verify which "flavour" i'm taking as i get it in a plastic bag on ebay, may be getting conned......btw i got an o level in french

Tim55 said:

Ok mate, I see we are on a similar wavelength - I'm no Phd either, merely C,Chem MRSC, but I did spend a considerable part of my career bringing an optically active version of a phenoxy herbicide to market.

Very surprised if I am honest to see such references on here - you use flavours, I prefer Left or right handed, but I guess we both know what we mean.

I come back to it though, yes, pure r(+) might be ideal, but the racemate will be probably be helpful too. I doubt anyone has made the effort to purify s(-) and so you can probably buy either pure r flavour, or a mix of r and s, both of which may be helpful if - and only if - your problems are those that might be helped by it.

But actually, I think you are not quite right with your differentiation between isomers and enantiomers - isomers are structurally different while enantiomers are structurally identical, just with a chiral centre.

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You would know this better than I, but that is mainly because there are only two forms. If there had been more forms then I would have been correct, I believe. I am glad we have not gotten into a discussion about L-Carnitine LOL

Yes the racemic ALA will probably give some benefit. Question, will the racemic stuff degrade as the R-ala in it gets exposed to light, heat and moisture?. Would NA-RALA be more cost effective?

We have now identified the three main protagonists, and can leave it up to our readers to decide on what they want to do.

Oldvatr said:

You would know this better than I, but that is mainly because there are only two forms. If there had been more forms then I would have been correct, I believe. I am glad we have not gotten into a discussion about L-Carnitine LOL

Not quite mate. There are indeed two forms. But what you might come across is actually three. Pure r, pure l and the racemate. Commercially however I suspect two is right - pure r, or 50;50

Yes the racemic ALA will probably give some benefit. Question, will the racemic stuff degrade as the R-ala in it gets exposed to light, heat and moisture?. Would NA-RALA be more cost effective?

We have now identified the three main protagonists, and can leave it up to our readers to decide on what they want to do.

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Well now, briefly.

I suspect that the degradation of the one pure enantiomer due to light etc is a result of racemisation - that natural balance that is kind of well, natural, so, over time, if you have the pure right - handed one, it will morph into the mixed...

I actually started with the L - carnitine today too................ so, I absolutely welcome anything you have to say about that, I am very aware that it is very easy to fall for the claims these sellers make because, deep down, we are all looking for a way forward, yes?

Bottom line for me is that I believe ALA, together with the methyl forms of B1 and B12 is helping me. I am not saying it will help everyone else though. As I have said elsewhere, I dont accept my problem is that I am diabetic, I have that issue for a reason, which I prefer to think of as Insulin resistance.

And once you start to research a bit down that road, well, it changed my mind.

numan43 said:

ok you two, is there any way i can verify which "flavour" i'm taking as i get it in a plastic bag on ebay, may be getting conned......btw i got an o level in french

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Sorry Mate

Missed this earlier.

My view.

If it says "r(+) ALA"" on the label then you have the purest form.

If it doesn't, then you probably have the mixed - which I think is what is helping me - and it should be fine

If we accept the left - handed shape = s(-) is useless to us, then it follows no-one would put the time, effort and money into producing it.

So, at worst you are probably taking a substance of which half may be helping you, and at best, all of it is. Doubtful though that it is totally useless but I am always a bit wary of anything in a plastic mag from e-bay

Bit late here now, and I may have had a beer or six, so signing off for now...

numan43 said:

ok you two, is there any way i can verify which "flavour" i'm taking as i get it in a plastic bag on ebay, may be getting conned......btw i got an o level in french

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Hi @numan43 Can you let me know how you get on pls?

You should read the book "The anti Oxidant Miracle" by Lester Packer. It is all about Alpha Lipoic and it discusses various trials that were conducted using ALA.
ALA is best taken with Vit B, C, D & E and Q10. The book is backed up with many trials and the results are amazing.

It cured my neuropathy.