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amputations
- Thread starter greenave
- Start Date
I think that there are actually two major causes - impaired circulation and nerve damage.
They will check for early symptoms of impaired peripheral circulation during the annual check-ups (I think they do an ultrasound of the blood vessels in your feet for that reason).
In extreme cases, that will mean that wounds will heal very slowly or not at all, and thus even minor injuries will require amputation.
The other cause is insensitivity to pain due to nerve damage, which would result in potentially treatable sores or other injuries not being noticed until it's too late (thus the advice to regularly check one's feet)
They will check for early symptoms of impaired peripheral circulation during the annual check-ups (I think they do an ultrasound of the blood vessels in your feet for that reason).
In extreme cases, that will mean that wounds will heal very slowly or not at all, and thus even minor injuries will require amputation.
The other cause is insensitivity to pain due to nerve damage, which would result in potentially treatable sores or other injuries not being noticed until it's too late (thus the advice to regularly check one's feet)
mish1953
Well-Known Member
The latest 2010 stats are pretty scary ...100 people a week lose a toe, foot or lower limb due to diabetes---The rate of leg amputations in people with diabetes is over 15 times higher than in people
without....Up to 70 per cent of people die within five years of having an amputation as a result
of diabetes...Diabetes is the fifth most common cause of death in the world.
Pretty scary
These figures are taken from ..http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Documents/Reports/Diabetes_in_the_UK_2010.pdf every diabetic should read the report , the cost to the NHS and country is horrific .
If you are diabetic then you need to take it seriously.
Personally I'm up there in the danger zone , I'm 58, Scottish, overweight, have had chronic venous insufficiency in both legs and am a T2 diabetic . I already have neuropathy in both feet due to blood not circulating properly & diabetes , my toes are an interesting blue colour , and I can walk on glass & not notice :shock:
Iv'e stopped smoking, am losing weight and making a big effort to get my blood sugars under control , I'm on the slippery slope and trying to put the brakes on but all I can hope for is to slow the process down at my age . I want to be skiing again when Im 60 :crazy:
7 days without cigarettes ... I'm ready to kill something :evil:
Hamish
Ipswich
without....Up to 70 per cent of people die within five years of having an amputation as a result
of diabetes...Diabetes is the fifth most common cause of death in the world.
Pretty scary
These figures are taken from ..http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Documents/Reports/Diabetes_in_the_UK_2010.pdf every diabetic should read the report , the cost to the NHS and country is horrific .
If you are diabetic then you need to take it seriously.
Personally I'm up there in the danger zone , I'm 58, Scottish, overweight, have had chronic venous insufficiency in both legs and am a T2 diabetic . I already have neuropathy in both feet due to blood not circulating properly & diabetes , my toes are an interesting blue colour , and I can walk on glass & not notice :shock:
Iv'e stopped smoking, am losing weight and making a big effort to get my blood sugars under control , I'm on the slippery slope and trying to put the brakes on but all I can hope for is to slow the process down at my age . I want to be skiing again when Im 60 :crazy:
7 days without cigarettes ... I'm ready to kill something :evil:
Hamish
Ipswich
Re: amputations-urgent advice
Hi
I'm new to this forum and not sure if anyone can help but need desperate help.
I have an aunt who is Type 2 diabetic and at the moment is in hospital having treatment for a wound on her foot [after stepping on a nail a few weeks ago] they have now discovered that she has bad circulation. Not a good combination in diabetic sufferers but it seems things are not looking good for her at the moment and the medics are talking about amputating her leg!
She was not suitable for an Angiogram nor a bypass which, I am told were the only two options open to her to treat her bad circulation. The wound is not infected and she has about a week to make her mind up about amputation [we have only a few days left]. From the literature I have read it seems amputation is the very last resort especially if the leg is gangrenous.
My question to the forum is, can anyone think of ANYTHING that we can suggest she try? Laser surgery?
Can it be treated on it's own with other remedies and improve on its own or is amputation really the only option now?
I am really really worried...
Thanks
R
Hi
I'm new to this forum and not sure if anyone can help but need desperate help.
I have an aunt who is Type 2 diabetic and at the moment is in hospital having treatment for a wound on her foot [after stepping on a nail a few weeks ago] they have now discovered that she has bad circulation. Not a good combination in diabetic sufferers but it seems things are not looking good for her at the moment and the medics are talking about amputating her leg!
She was not suitable for an Angiogram nor a bypass which, I am told were the only two options open to her to treat her bad circulation. The wound is not infected and she has about a week to make her mind up about amputation [we have only a few days left]. From the literature I have read it seems amputation is the very last resort especially if the leg is gangrenous.
My question to the forum is, can anyone think of ANYTHING that we can suggest she try? Laser surgery?
Can it be treated on it's own with other remedies and improve on its own or is amputation really the only option now?
I am really really worried...
Thanks
R
WhitbyJet
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,597
Reet - what an awful situation to be in, I am so sorry.
I dont know the answer, I am not medically qualified, dont know how bad the circulation problem is or anything.
If the ulcer is slow healing I know that some people have benefitted from Manuka honey dressings (expensive, thats why they are only used in private hospitals and not the NHS and some people had leeches attached to eat away at the infection).
As for bad circulation, all I know is that exercise would help with it, even if it is just moving the toes, curling and uncurling them, flexing the foot, relaxing, flexing again, all of these would help, eating onions, garlic and ginger, healthy cold pressed oils,etc.
I have a friend whose father was treated in Germany, he suffered intermittent claudication which is caused by poor circulation, his legs were mottled blue and deep red; doctors threatened with amputation, but he got a second opinion, was sent to a different hospital where he was given infusions (bit like a drip in your arm), it improved things for him, he now has one of those archair cycles, he is also out walking every day no matter what the weather does.
So I dont know, if there is enough time I think I personally would be inclined to ask for a second opinion. but if your aunt alreday has gangrene set in it may be too late for that. Oh God, I wish I could think of something to help.
Let us know how things go, thinking of you x x
I dont know the answer, I am not medically qualified, dont know how bad the circulation problem is or anything.
If the ulcer is slow healing I know that some people have benefitted from Manuka honey dressings (expensive, thats why they are only used in private hospitals and not the NHS and some people had leeches attached to eat away at the infection).
As for bad circulation, all I know is that exercise would help with it, even if it is just moving the toes, curling and uncurling them, flexing the foot, relaxing, flexing again, all of these would help, eating onions, garlic and ginger, healthy cold pressed oils,etc.
I have a friend whose father was treated in Germany, he suffered intermittent claudication which is caused by poor circulation, his legs were mottled blue and deep red; doctors threatened with amputation, but he got a second opinion, was sent to a different hospital where he was given infusions (bit like a drip in your arm), it improved things for him, he now has one of those archair cycles, he is also out walking every day no matter what the weather does.
So I dont know, if there is enough time I think I personally would be inclined to ask for a second opinion. but if your aunt alreday has gangrene set in it may be too late for that. Oh God, I wish I could think of something to help.
Let us know how things go, thinking of you x x
Thank you so much! This sounds very positive 
My aunt's wound isn't as far gone as our friend's father so it looks like there may be chance to save leg afterall. I can't tell you how grateful I am.
I've also heard that Manuka Honey Dressings are very good too for wounds but for a diabetoc patient not sure if this OK?
R x
My aunt's wound isn't as far gone as our friend's father so it looks like there may be chance to save leg afterall. I can't tell you how grateful I am.
I've also heard that Manuka Honey Dressings are very good too for wounds but for a diabetoc patient not sure if this OK?
R x
Hi Reet
I found this that may be of help:
http://www.crd.york.ac.uk/crdweb/ShowRe ... 1998001768.
Regards
Doug
I found this that may be of help:
http://www.crd.york.ac.uk/crdweb/ShowRe ... 1998001768.
Regards
Doug
WhitbyJet
Well-Known Member
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- 1,597
Reet - I have now had a chance to obtain further information from my friend. As previously mentioned her father was faced with amputation, begged for another chance and a second opinion.
He was prescribed stronger statins, vaso dilating drugs, was given infusions into both legs directly into the veins, he was given laser therapy to encourage blood flow and Ozonetherapy.
His ulcer was treated with Comvita dressings, as said before these are not usually available for NHS patients, honey dressings are used in private clinics only, they are very expensive. And yes they are used to treat diabetic ulcers, the honey is not ingested, its a topical application.
In addition, her father had to lose weight, keep tight control of bg levels, lower blood pressure and exercise, every day without fail, he started off gently, whilst lying down, curling and uncurling toes, flexing and releasing the foot, whilst sitting on the edge of the bed, feet on the floor, raise heels, keeping toes on the floor, and then keeping heels on the floor and raising toes instead. Apparently he found the exercising part the hardest, his legs hurt after just a few repetitions, but this is where the physiotherapist came in, she cracked the whip, exercise till it hurts, rest a little, then continue, he was doing 40 mins a day. Eventually progressed to doing much more.
Foodwise, tight bg control, cold pressed olive oil, virgin coconut oil, cold pressed linseed oil, generally plenty of protein, fish, eggs, chicken, fresh vegetables, not much fruit probably because fruit is high in sugar (I think thats the reason).
No smoking or alcohol.
He had pretty intensive treatment, so not sure if the dear old NHS can afford to offer this kind of treatment, cost and time factor tend to be prohibitive?
But it worked, not completely cured, but he can walk without pain, he lives near a hotel where he is allowed to use the indoor pool, he holds on to the rail and is walking in water, gives excellent resistance and strengthens the veins or so they say.
He has an armchair cycle to keep moving while he is watching TV, he is forever moving toes and ankles.
Thats all I know, the family dont remember the name of the medications prescribed, but remember that each case is different, the same meds might not be suitable for your auntie.
He was prescribed stronger statins, vaso dilating drugs, was given infusions into both legs directly into the veins, he was given laser therapy to encourage blood flow and Ozonetherapy.
His ulcer was treated with Comvita dressings, as said before these are not usually available for NHS patients, honey dressings are used in private clinics only, they are very expensive. And yes they are used to treat diabetic ulcers, the honey is not ingested, its a topical application.
In addition, her father had to lose weight, keep tight control of bg levels, lower blood pressure and exercise, every day without fail, he started off gently, whilst lying down, curling and uncurling toes, flexing and releasing the foot, whilst sitting on the edge of the bed, feet on the floor, raise heels, keeping toes on the floor, and then keeping heels on the floor and raising toes instead. Apparently he found the exercising part the hardest, his legs hurt after just a few repetitions, but this is where the physiotherapist came in, she cracked the whip, exercise till it hurts, rest a little, then continue, he was doing 40 mins a day. Eventually progressed to doing much more.
Foodwise, tight bg control, cold pressed olive oil, virgin coconut oil, cold pressed linseed oil, generally plenty of protein, fish, eggs, chicken, fresh vegetables, not much fruit probably because fruit is high in sugar (I think thats the reason).
No smoking or alcohol.
He had pretty intensive treatment, so not sure if the dear old NHS can afford to offer this kind of treatment, cost and time factor tend to be prohibitive?
But it worked, not completely cured, but he can walk without pain, he lives near a hotel where he is allowed to use the indoor pool, he holds on to the rail and is walking in water, gives excellent resistance and strengthens the veins or so they say.
He has an armchair cycle to keep moving while he is watching TV, he is forever moving toes and ankles.
Thats all I know, the family dont remember the name of the medications prescribed, but remember that each case is different, the same meds might not be suitable for your auntie.
Re: amputations-Update
Hi Everyone
Just wanted to update you all about my aunt. All is well
She didn't have to have the amputation in the end. asIn fact the same surgeon whom saw her initially, opted to performed the same operation again to see if it will work and lo and behold it did! Operation was a success and circulation has now improved and blood is pumping through her veins as normal. Thankfully! We're all so relieved. I shudder to think what the alternative would have been if she wasn't so insistent on waiting...
I wanted to wait until she was out of the woods first before I let you all know but I thought you might want to know what the outcome was. In fact she is celebrating her birthday today and on Saturday we are holding a small family day.
Thank you all.
R
x
Hi Everyone
Just wanted to update you all about my aunt. All is well
She didn't have to have the amputation in the end. asIn fact the same surgeon whom saw her initially, opted to performed the same operation again to see if it will work and lo and behold it did! Operation was a success and circulation has now improved and blood is pumping through her veins as normal. Thankfully! We're all so relieved. I shudder to think what the alternative would have been if she wasn't so insistent on waiting...
I wanted to wait until she was out of the woods first before I let you all know but I thought you might want to know what the outcome was. In fact she is celebrating her birthday today and on Saturday we are holding a small family day.
Thank you all.
R
x
Re: amputations-update
Dear All
Thanks again for your support and advice. Just thought you'd like an update on the situation.
Well, all is well. My aunt didn't have the amputation afterall. I took on board all of yuor advice and in fact as a last ditch attempt to save the foot, the same surgeon who operated on her initially tried with the angiogram again and it seems that did the trick of unblocking the veins and the blood is happily pumping through the veins as normal now. She is now recovering at home and every week the wound is improving. I shudder to think what the alternative would have been had she not kept her wits about her and insisted to the doctors that she waits to see what happens...
She is now focussing on building up her weight again, she lost a huge amount of weight on Metformin and her doctor here recommended another which she is doing fine on at the moment and her weight is picking back up each week. We are also planning a family get together for her birthday this weekend
So thanks once again.
R
x
Dear All
Thanks again for your support and advice. Just thought you'd like an update on the situation.
Well, all is well. My aunt didn't have the amputation afterall
. I took on board all of yuor advice and in fact as a last ditch attempt to save the foot, the same surgeon who operated on her initially tried with the angiogram again and it seems that did the trick of unblocking the veins and the blood is happily pumping through the veins as normal now. She is now recovering at home and every week the wound is improving. I shudder to think what the alternative would have been had she not kept her wits about her and insisted to the doctors that she waits to see what happens...She is now focussing on building up her weight again, she lost a huge amount of weight on Metformin and her doctor here recommended another which she is doing fine on at the moment and her weight is picking back up each week. We are also planning a family get together for her birthday this weekend
So thanks once again.
R
x
WhitbyJet
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,597
Aw bless, that is so good to hear, thank you for coming back and letting us know.
A big hello to your aunt, please pass on my best wishes, if I lived closer I would have baked her a low carb gateau to help her celebrate!
All the best to you and all your family x x
A big hello to your aunt, please pass on my best wishes, if I lived closer I would have baked her a low carb gateau to help her celebrate!
All the best to you and all your family x x
hanadr
Expert
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- soaps on telly and people talking about the characters as if they were real.
To correct a miaaprehension
Manuka honey dressings are available on the NHS. My T1 husband who has 2 Charcot feet has been treated with Manuka honey by the podiatry department of our hospital.
The best thing he has done for his foot health is to keep MUCH TIGHTER blood glucose control;mainly by reducing his carb intake and his use of insulin. His last HbA1c was 6.5%. this is a vast improvement on his previous numbers around 8%. It's helped with his kidney disease too. the next stage for his kidneys would be dialysis, but the disease progression has halted. It's stayed stable for a couple of years, since he started listening to my nagging.
I firmly believe that the nearer a diabetic's blood glucose is to NORMAL [ie around 5mmol/l most of the time] the less likelihood of complications and the more normal the rate of healing.
I personally heal absolutely normally if I hurt myself. My Hba1cs are consistently in the 5% range over the last few years.
Please don't anyone tell me that this is dangerous, because it only is if you use medication to achieve it. I use v-l-carb.
which incidentally can negate the tendency of T2 to progress.
Hana
PS it's the opinion of many authorities that at least 80% of amputations are avoidable.
Manuka honey dressings are available on the NHS. My T1 husband who has 2 Charcot feet has been treated with Manuka honey by the podiatry department of our hospital.
The best thing he has done for his foot health is to keep MUCH TIGHTER blood glucose control;mainly by reducing his carb intake and his use of insulin. His last HbA1c was 6.5%. this is a vast improvement on his previous numbers around 8%. It's helped with his kidney disease too. the next stage for his kidneys would be dialysis, but the disease progression has halted. It's stayed stable for a couple of years, since he started listening to my nagging.
I firmly believe that the nearer a diabetic's blood glucose is to NORMAL [ie around 5mmol/l most of the time] the less likelihood of complications and the more normal the rate of healing.
I personally heal absolutely normally if I hurt myself. My Hba1cs are consistently in the 5% range over the last few years.
Please don't anyone tell me that this is dangerous, because it only is if you use medication to achieve it. I use v-l-carb.
which incidentally can negate the tendency of T2 to progress.
Hana
PS it's the opinion of many authorities that at least 80% of amputations are avoidable.
