Are you getting the right kind of calories?

Robinredbreast said:

After my dear dad died this year, I didn't have my hourly walk, there and back to the care home most day's, I was down and out and did , well, not a lot, I put on some weight. Not overweight I know, but aged 60 now, I have to work at a it, even though I wanted to stuff my face at times. Decades of diabetes isn't easy and if I don't keep a check on what I am doing, making sure I keep active and watching what I eat and not letting depression take a firm hold, then weight can go on. We are all, I'm sure, trying to do our best with life and diabetes.

Click to expand...

Yes it is difficult for all of us. My point though is that for those people with undiagnosed IR even if they do the same things that you did, keeping active and keeping a check on what they eat, taking as firm a hold as they can....the weight still goes on. This is T2 , yet they won't get a diagnosis for very many years as insulin levels just aren't checked. T2 is only diagnosed when BG levels rise, but often starts way before then and does cause weight gain. It isn't just difficult for these people, it's impossible. That's how it was for me when my parents died 22 years ago. I did everything I knew but still put on weight. My GP thought I was cheating on the diets. I wasn't. I ate less and less until I got ill with infection after infection. Only low carbing can help with IR and if you don't know about it it's a really depressing place to be, trying diet after diet and still gaining weight. You did all the right things and they worked because you don't have IR/metabolic syndrome/T2. Just imagine what it would have been like if you had done all that hard work and still got fat. It wouldn't have been you to blame, it would have been your body not responding how it should.

As for not letting depression take a firm hold, well there's another judgement on a whole other group of people.

Couldn’t agree more.

Editing to say I was agreeing with the post below from @zand - the reply function doesn't seem to have worked properly on my phone:

"OK, I don't have hypos. I don't even have to work at it, I just don't get them. It isn't because I am clever or work hard at my health. It just happens. Hypo free zand. Wonderful hey? That's because I do not have T1 or RH.

Some on this thread have said how well they maintain their weight and have indicated that they intend to always do so. They can do this because they do not have IR/T2. It sounds critical of those of us who can't manage that. The reason we can't manage that is because we have IR/metabolic syndrome/ T2. It isn't because we are greedy or stupid or lazy or hide our heads in the sand. It's because we are T2 and our bodies don't use insulin properly and therefore they produce more of the stuff and that makes us fat. I was insulin resistant for many years before being diagnosed as T2, and getting ever fatter every year. I tried to eat healthily but since dietary advice was usually centred around eating 'healthy' carbs I was never going to manage it until I discovered low carbing 7 years ago.

Please don't assume that because someone is fat they eat a worse diet than you. It really isn't that straightforward. I am lucky that I am not T1 and don't get hypos. Others are lucky that they don't have to spend their life waddling around being ridiculed. I don't criticize someone whose silly body has decided to stop producing insulin. I don't see why I should be criticised because my silly body produces too much."

kev-w said:

. . . . if obesity is one of the causes of T2

Click to expand...

Cause or symptom?

DavidGrahamJones said:

Cause or symptom?

Click to expand...

Those of us who have been there know the answer to that is symptom. There are plenty out there in the big wide world who just won't listen to that viewpoint though. Maybe certain conditions destroy the ability to listen?

zand said:

Yes it is difficult for all of us. My point though is that for those people with undiagnosed IR even if they do the same things that you did, keeping active and keeping a check on what they eat, taking as firm a hold as they can....the weight still goes on. This is T2 , yet they won't get a diagnosis for very many years as insulin levels just aren't checked. T2 is only diagnosed when BG levels rise, but often starts way before then and does cause weight gain. It isn't just difficult for these people, it's impossible. That's how it was for me when my parents died 22 years ago. I did everything I knew but still put on weight. My GP thought I was cheating on the diets. I wasn't. I ate less and less until I got ill with infection after infection. Only low carbing can help with IR and if you don't know about it it's a really depressing place to be, trying diet after diet and still gaining weight. You did all the right things and they worked because you don't have IR/metabolic syndrome/T2. Just imagine what it would have been like if you had done all that hard work and still got fat. It wouldn't have been you to blame, it would have been your body not responding how it should.

Click to expand...

A kindred spirit.

Just been making sure my food diary is up to date because I'm seeing my GP this afternoon. I've been eating low carb and less than 1000 cals per day for far too long without weight loss. Exercise has not helped to get the metabolism going, so I need something, not sure what. The problem will be that my poor old GP will not know enough about the problem, despite obesity being a major national problem. In the past I've just been told I have a broken metabolism, without any recommendations or referral to anybody resembling an expert. The nice diabetic specialist did offer me a book on low carb eating which is hopeful, I think she was disappointed when I was able to say "been there, doing that . . . . ".

zand said:

Those of us who have been there know the answer to that is symptom.

Click to expand...

It's sad really because I had a very large grandmother and mother and nobody would believe how little they ate. My mother especially because I can remember that better.

It would seem to be so simple to find young overweight people, see if it's possible to identify whether it's overeating or something else causing the problem. If it's something else then look at insulin resistance. You'd also have to look at other things which affect weight, IR is one, then there's cortisone (cortisol ?) levels, estrogen levels, gut bacteria diversity, genetics (ankyrin-B, the obesity gene).

zand said:

Yes it is difficult for all of us. My point though is that for those people with undiagnosed IR even if they do the same things that you did, keeping active and keeping a check on what they eat, taking as firm a hold as they can....the weight still goes on. This is T2 , yet they won't get a diagnosis for very many years as insulin levels just aren't checked. T2 is only diagnosed when BG levels rise, but often starts way before then and does cause weight gain. It isn't just difficult for these people, it's impossible. That's how it was for me when my parents died 22 years ago. I did everything I knew but still put on weight. My GP thought I was cheating on the diets. I wasn't. I ate less and less until I got ill with infection after infection. Only low carbing can help with IR and if you don't know about it it's a really depressing place to be, trying diet after diet and still gaining weight. You did all the right things and they worked because you don't have IR/metabolic syndrome/T2. Just imagine what it would have been like if you had done all that hard work and still got fat. It wouldn't have been you to blame, it would have been your body not responding how it should.

As for not letting depression take a firm hold, well there's another judgement on a whole other group of people.

Click to expand...

The above includes me, and not everything that is written is about certain individuals.

DavidGrahamJones said:

Cause or symptom?

Click to expand...

My original comment was just on the merits of the article, I made no mention of diabetes, I see a similar article written here https://www.diabetes.co.uk/in-depth/quality-calorie-vs-empty-calorie/ on the news section of the site.

Pipp said:

. . . . now am resigned to being fat forever.

Click to expand...

I wish I could peruade you to think differently, but I know exactly where you are coming from. Even though I get on very well with my GP, I'm psyching myself up to be more demanding and saying "Here's my food diary, 1000 cals a day on a good day, my BMR is 2300 cals a day, I cycle (stationary bike), row (likewise stationary) and even ski (Nordic thingy). I also play golf and usually keep busy doing the shopping, keeping the garden tidy and even carrying shopping for people when I take them shopping in the 'Good Neighbours minibus'. I'm still not losing weight (I've told her this before), over to you, cure me!" Probably won't get far although my diagnosis was a broken metabolism, there doesn't seem to be a cure.

Found this as a list of foods with empty calories and thus to be avoided


Treats like packaged cakes, cookies, and donuts contain both added sugars and solid fats.
Beverages like soda, sports and energy drinks, and fruit drinks contain added sugars.
Cheese, ice cream, and other full-fat dairy contain a good amount of solid fat.
Meats like sausage, hot dogs, bacon, and ribs contain solid fat.
Fast food — like pizza, burgers, french fries, milkshakes, etc. — often contains both added sugars and solid fats.
Hard candy and candy bars may contain both added sugars and solid fats.

Of course the idea that fats constitute empty calories is utter nonsense

They carry the fat soluble vitamins for a start. And are necessary for many bodily functions

DavidGrahamJones said:

I wish I could peruade you to think differently, but I know exactly where you are coming from. Even though I get on very well with my GP, I'm psyching myself up to be more demanding and saying "Here's my food diary, 1000 cals a day on a good day, my BMR is 2300 cals a day, I cycle (stationary bike), row (likewise stationary) and even ski (Nordic thingy). I also play golf and usually keep busy doing the shopping, keeping the garden tidy and even carrying shopping for people when I take them shopping in the 'Good Neighbours minibus'. I'm still not losing weight (I've told her this before), over to you, cure me!" Probably won't get far although my diagnosis was a broken metabolism, there doesn't seem to be a cure.

Click to expand...

What I don't understand is where you are getting the energy from. Far from being broken, your metabolism seems to be super efficient. Or do you have another explanation of how you manage to cope with about half the energy intake usually regarded as the normal requirement?

Mr_Pot said:

Or do you have another explanation of how you manage to cope with about half the energy intake usually regarded as the normal requirement?

Click to expand...

The energy intake usually regarded as normal is a calculated amount. I would have to have my calorie expenditure measured rather than calculated. This can be done by going to the University of Westminster, School of Life Sciences (Nutrition and Health Services) where they measure one's RMR by getting you to breath using a mask for 45 minutes. They measure the air you breath in and the CO2 you breath out, then crunch the numbers to come up with your calorie requirements. All for the extremely reasonable price of £180. By the time you add travel, it's less attractive.

They also have something called a Bodpod which will tell you your body composition.

Edit: It's like putting a gallon of petrol in a Mini and a Rolls Royce, you'd go farther in a mini. Or put another way, you'd need less fuel in a mini to travel the same distance.
Also worth considering is how much do we all absorb from the energy that we eat and is that affected by intestinal transit time and even the length of our intestines?

We got some killa jules on shopping day...

Oldvatr said:

Ah the lightbulb moment......

Click to expand...

Robinredbreast said:

The above includes me, and not everything that is written is about certain individuals.

Click to expand...

??? I didn't think any of this thread was about certain individuals at all? I thought it was about dietary advice and groups of people and how what is maybe right for some groups ( ie the general public) isn't right for other groups ( ie T2s)

My comment about depression wasn't personal to anyone, just saying that not everyone can control it as you and I have, but that doesn't make them lesser human beings for all that. I wasn't taking anything you said personally, rather I was thinking of those less fortunate than you and I for whom depression is a mega problem.