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at what level should one change?

  • Thread starter Thread starter sunnyspots
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sunnyspots

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Just wondering if anyone has an idea when a blood level really does mean 'don't eat that again!' vs 'that's not good but not too awful'? On the DESMOND course we were told we couldn't have blood testing strips (all the usual stuff) but we could always ask for urine strips. I've tended to take that as meaning a level is not too bad as long as it is below 11 - ie wouldn't be shown by urine testing. Am I kidding myself?

What do others do?
 
I think most of us would find below 11 too high as a target. NICE guidelines are below 8.5 two hours after eating. Average normal non- diabetics are below 7.8 two hours after eating, and many of us set that as a ceiling. You need to get a meter and strips to work out what you can eat in what quantities. Worthwhile investment to control your diabetes and avoid complications.
 
Urine sticks are ideal for Type 1's testing for ketones but are pretty useless for managing blood sugar levels. It takes a while for the kidneys to process blood into urine and so these strips will tell you what your blood sugar was 2-4 hours previous.

Read the basic information that Daisy gives to newly diagnosed, which tells you about acceptable levels and invest in a meter and strips for your ongoing health.
This is a thread about some cheap meters available.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26779
 
catherinecherub said:
Read the basic information that Daisy gives to newly diagnosed, which tells you about acceptable levels and invest in a meter and strips for your ongoing health.

For ease of reference, here is the information that I post to newly diagnosed, which Catherine was referring to:

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find well over 30,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

  • Reduce your carbohydrate intake
  • Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates
Reduce your carbohydrates
A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes ... rains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)
  • Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l
Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)
  • Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
  • 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l
However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips
The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

  • structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
  • self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
 
Thank you for the pointers and for the copied article. I clearly need to change my diet (I bought a meter before but didn't really know what to do with the results!) I knew my breakfasts were bad but lunch looks iffy too.

Thank you again for your help.

xx
 
It's not just what you eat, but "how much?"
I don't test after eating (Stable T2) but I would say if you REALLY LOVE something, just have a SMALLER bit. I have a single strip of LIDL's dark hazelnut chocolate every evening. It doesn't seem to hurt me, but the whole block might. I hven't changed what for years.
Hana
 
Funny you should say that. I've just ordered (shopping) a block of dark chocolate for the odd square or two.
 
sunnyspots said:
I've tended to take that as meaning a level is not too bad as long as it is below 11 - ie wouldn't be shown by urine testing. Am I kidding myself?

Each person needs to make their own informed judgement of the risks they are willing to take so the choice is yours. Here is some well researched information on levels. I doubt your course told you these but there are accepted scientific papers to back up all the following info.

I aim never to have a BS reading more than 6.5 two hours after any meal.

A blood sugar reading of 7.8 is believed to be the maximum that people can have before a significant risk of diabetic complications can begin to occur. From memory that is the level that was found when sugar levels begin to damage the blood vessels in the backs of most people eyes.

19 out of 20 non diabetic people will return to a BS level of less than 6.5 two hours after any meal.

3 out of 4 non diabetic people will return to a BS level of less than 5.5 two hours after any meal.

Each 1% rise in HbA1c DOUBLES your risk of diabetic complications so a person with an HbA1c of 7% has TWICE the chance of complications as someone at 6%, at 8% its FOUR times the chance, at 9% EIGHT times the chance etc.

The NHS top range of 7.5% for HbA1c equates to an average BS reading of 9.4 which is well in excess of the 7.8 safe maximum level. The bottom 6.5% value equates to an average BS reading of just under 7.8.

Most shockingly in most people studied beta cells (the cells in your body that store and release insulin) begin to die off gradually if your levels exceed 5.5 (yes five point five) and this destruction increases faster and faster as your levels rise meaning beta cell destruction actually begins when people are diagnosed in the PRE diabetic warning ranges not when they are actually diagnosed diabetic.
 
sunnyspots said:
Just wondering if anyone has an idea when a blood level really does mean 'don't eat that again!' vs 'that's not good but not too awful'? On the DESMOND course we were told we couldn't have blood testing strips (all the usual stuff) but we could always ask for urine strips. I've tended to take that as meaning a level is not too bad as long as it is below 11 - ie wouldn't be shown by urine testing. Am I kidding myself?

What do others do?

Yes, you are kidding yourself but it is not your fault. You have been given some very bad advice. Upon testing at 2 hours after your meals you should not be above 6.7mm normally and never above 7.8mm. Going up to 11mm is bad news. Urine strips will not give you the kind of tight good control you truly need in my view. Testing with a meter and strips is the only reliable way to see what is going on with your blood sugar. Your fasting level each morning should be as close to 5mm as possible. This kind of strong control will give you good health and will save you from complications.
 
sunnyspots said:
Thank you for the pointers and for the copied article. I clearly need to change my diet (I bought a meter before but didn't really know what to do with the results!) I knew my breakfasts were bad but lunch looks iffy too.

Thank you again for your help.

xx

Reduce and restrict carbohydrates in your diet, they are the components of your food that make blood sugar rise. Eat mainly proteins, fats for a while. Gradually introduce very quality carbs back as you find out how you tolerate them. Make especially breakfast a protein meal as that is the time you are likely to be most insulin resistant. Use your meter to see what your level is after each meal, if it is above 6.7mm, reduce carbs before the next meal. Take exercise and see the wonderful glucose lowering effect of it - even brisk walking is effective. Leave 4 hours between meals to ensure full digestion and to stop triggering off insulin production throughout the day. It takes a few weeks, even months, but the feeling of control makes you feel excellent once you have got it right.
 
Thank you everyone for your advice. Looking at your recommendations the only thing I seem able to eat is eggs or chocolate (I've just posted about the latter!) I know exercise has brought down my BS before but don't get a chance in the mornings when by sugars are highest. I did try walking the d
 
paltry said:
Thank you everyone for your advice. Looking at your recommendations the only thing I seem able to eat is eggs or chocolate (I've just posted about the latter!) I know exercise has brought down my BS before but don't get a chance in the mornings when by sugars are highest. I did try walking the d

May I ask why you can only eat eggs or chocolate? If you are not a vegetarian you can choose from meat, fish and a variety of other protein foods. If you are a vegetarian then you can choose cheese, soy, quorn or tofu etc to get protein. Variety is the key and eating only the most nutritious foods.
 
paltry if you're looking to reduce your BG's and still have a varied diet then a really simple way would be to half what you are eating in starchy carbs (bread, potatoes, rice, pasta, pastry, cereals) and then so you don't get hungry replace the half you've given up with meat of any kind, fish, cheese and any vegetables that grow above ground (I can also get away with carrots). Throw in a bit of fresh fruit and yoghurt and you'll soon notice the difference.

On the half of the starchy carbs you keep eating try to.

change white rice to brown rice.
change white pasta to brown or green or the tri colour stuff
change white bread to wholemeal brown or best is burgen soya bread
never eat mashed potatoes and try and eat roast potatoes as they process slower.

Don't be afraid of eating fatty things so a good eggs, bacon and mushroom fry up is fine in moderation. Cheese omelettes that kind of thing also fine imo.
 
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