Type 2 Blood sugars during the night.

hi Charlotte - Can blood sugars rise in our sleep? - yes they sure can. It's what is known as the "dawn phenomenon" which usually occurs between 2 am - 8 am. Your liver dumps glucose to bring your level up. The only problem is that the liver tends to dump more glucose than you need.

I've always been told I should be checking my sugar levels between 1- 3 am. I tend to check my sugar when I get up during the night to make sure I'm not going too low. If I am, I will treat it accordingly... so will have to have a snack. I'm not sure what time your reading of 7.8 was? I have found over the years that my sugar can drop too low anywhere after midnight up to 5 am for me (I'm up 5.30 most mornings).

In regard to whether you should be eating during the night when you're hungry - it's probably not the best idea to be ramping up your digestive system as it could keep you awake. Your sugar level of 6.8 is not a level where you'd need to be eating something. I wouldn't eat something unless I was under 5 as then I know I'm at high risk of a hypo if I don't (I drop quickly below 5 and so that is why my endo said it is my safe number... hopefully you know what yours is). To satisfy hunger, you are probably safer having a small amount of milk or whatever you can tolerate and then head back to bed. If you need to eat, make it very soft and not too much carbs. Mind you I have digestive problems so this is just what I'd do... you may be ok with something different in texture. But really you don't want to be eating something that will take a while to digest and will keep you awake. My nan used to swear on a soggy weetbix and I still will have this if I need to at night to keep my sugar level (just one which is 11g carbs, not a bowl full of them). I wouldn't suggest eating meat, but maybe an egg would be ok.

*Edited by a moderator to remove unproven assertions that may cause unwarranted alarm.

CharlotteLouise2468 said:

My bloods were 7.8 2 hours after I ate my dinner. Was around 30g of carbs.

I usually eat cheese when I'm peckish cause I know that doesn't spike my blood sugars.
This morning they were 7.8 went up to 8.2 in 30 mins?!

Now I've had my shake and medication they've gone up to 13.7?!?! I've only had squash this morning and haven't eaten anything. I'm so worried

It's the highest they've been in a week or 2

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Hello charlotteLouise,the other thing that catches a lot of low carb high fat posters is....too much protein....because our bodies break this down and convert it to glucose,so we need to portion control our carbs fats and " proteins" ,clive

CharlotteLouise2468 said:

My bloods were 7.8 2 hours after I ate my dinner. Was around 30g of carbs.

I usually eat cheese when I'm peckish cause I know that doesn't spike my blood sugars.
This morning they were 7.8 went up to 8.2 in 30 mins?!

Now I've had my shake and medication they've gone up to 13.7?!?! I've only had squash this morning and haven't eaten anything. I'm so worried

It's the highest they've been in a week or 2

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I'm not sure what you mean by squash.... is that a fruit juice or something? If so, those type of drinks will put your sugar level up. I'm not sure if it was a sugar free thing you had.... but if artificially sweetened they also are known to raise blood sugar levels sadly. I stay away from artificial sweeteners now.

When you say you had a shake... is that like a shake for slimming? If so, they have carbs which includes milk and sugar.

Are you diet controlled only?

CharlotteLouise2468 said:

Okay I fell asleep around about 8.30pm I was so tired, but have woken up again at 00:30?!
I'm still awake obviously but I am absolutely so hungry and have just tested my bloods (6.8) they were 8.1 2 hours after my meal. Do people usually get a snack or do they try to go back to sleep?

I don't want my bloods to spike, just wondering whether this is a normal thing? To get hungry and wake up?


Thanks
Charlotte View attachment 16429

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Where your bloods sit, I would suggest you don't need to eat, which of course is very difference from feeling you want to eat - whether or not accompanied by hunger pangs. Hunger pangs can happen in the early days of low carbing, but it generally means it could be worth having a bit more fat in your diet. Fat usually helps us feel fuller, longer.

I completely disagree with Meps assessment of liver dumping/hypo and the dangers it holds - for most diabetics. Extreme cases may exist, but I have always understood, and firmly believe that liver dumping is something non-diabetics do all the time. It's almost the body trying to smooth out our blood scores, and keep them in a comfortable range. During the early stages of low carbing, our bodies can be a bit grumpy about losing all those yummy carbs that push our bloods up. Because it is used to running higher, it will try to do whatever it can to recreate those high levels, until it catches on that in your new world your bloods run a bit lower.

As its early days for you, I think you need to stick things out a bit longer to help your body settle down.

If you wake ravenous and are certain you can't get back to sleep, try a glass of water to take the edge off the pangs, or a spoonful (literally) of full fat yoghurt or peanut butter. You don't want to train your body to demand food in the middle of the night or your sleep patterns will never settle, which would be unhelpful.

I think there's some confusion here between two different phenomena. Here is some info:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/blood-glucose/dawn-phenomenon.html

Dawn Phenomenon is not the result of a hypo earlier in the night as that article explains.

(That is the Somogyi Phenomenon, explained here:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/blood-glucose/somogyi-phenomenon.html

BG rises don't always make sense, but at the end of the day, if you were a tad tired, that might have caused a liver dump to give you energy, especially if you hadn't eaten for some hours.

Likewise, an early morning liver dump (Dawn Phenomenon) is when your liver dumps to start your body preparing for the day. Some people go too low while asleep (hypo) and then rebound in the morning and this is the Somogyi Effect.

I suggest that if you do wake up in the middle of the night, you test. If your BG seems low you should contact GP/practice nurse the next day for advice.If it's 4 then most of us are told 4 is the floor and to eat something. But do talk to your HCPs.

People with diabetes are more prone to dehydration. You could try different bottled waters including naturally fizzy ones or buy a water filter jug, freeze strawberries and use them as fruit ice cubes, drink water with slices of lemon or cucumber in them and use straws. Squashes and juice drinks aren't hydrating and usually put BG up.

I low carb and to stop my fasting blood glucose from rocketing before I'm prepared to drag myself out of bed, I eat half a tub of creme fraiche before bed. High in fat, low in carbs, protein, and lactose. It keeps my stomach occupied enough that my liver doesn't feel the need to dump on me.

That won't work for someone counting calories because it has too many. If you are using meal replacement shakes and calorie counting you might need to shuffle your food around so that you don't wake up hungry in the night.

AndBreathe said:

I completely disagree with Meps assessment of liver dumping/hypo and the dangers it holds - for most diabetics. .

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Excuse my brain fog... it was somogyl I was thinking of. That's why I only share my own experience and don't give medical advice to anyone. Of course my point was to test during the night... very important especially if you are having problems.

I find the 'dawn phenomenon' very confusing, have been Type2 for sixteen years. Always used to have my main evening meal at about 7.30/8pm then a snack before bed, either a cracker [carbs] or a piece of cheese [protein] and my early morning reading would be 8ish, whichever I ate.

Recently, last couple of months, I've been eating nothing after my evening meal as a test, and have it earlier between 6pm and 7pm. My early morning readings are lower, between 5 something and 7 something, so for me, that suits me better.

Maybe its because of the length of time since my diabetes diagnosis, or because we're all individual and foods affect us differently, who knows....all a bit of a minefield...

And that's why I think we should all test, it really annoys me when my DN looks shocked when I say I test...when I was first diagnosed, all of us were given meters and test strips, it seems so obvious to me that they help us to gauge what is okay for us as individuals and what isn't....

CharlotteLouise2468 said:

Is it okay to snack on cheese? X

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I sometimes pop a babybel an hr before bedtime

CharlotteLouise2468 said:

I just had a munch of mature cheddar from sainsburys
I'm on my break from work but I've got 70g of cooked couscous (packet and weighed) with salad for tea
I'm at work till 8pm

I'm on a 7am-8pm shift

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Enjoy your break charlotte,watch out for the carbs in the cous cous though,test and see how you handle them,clive

@CharlotteLouise2468 When you first posted about your shakes on a different thread, I googled them and noticed they contain caffeine. This, in addition to working shifts, could be throwing your sleep patterns out of whack. Being overtired and in pain can elevate your bg levels.

I am still not completely convinced that you are T2 as you are such a young 'un. Take care x