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Call me cynical but.....I wonder what / who the drug companies have influenced and how

  • Thread starter Thread starter badcat
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Drug companies spend thousands every year wining and dining doctors and other HCP's as well as sponsoring trials which are published so long as they support the drug company's product. They exist to make money for their shareholders not to benefit mankind ( unless that also benefits their shareholders).
 
So does Kerrygold.
Any company that exists not to make money usually has a very short run.

On the whole, a world without any medicines wouldn't be one I'd prefer to live in
 
douglas99 said:
So does Kerrygold.
Any company that exists not to make money usually has a very short run.

On the whole, a world without any medicines wouldn't be one I'd prefer to live in
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Now I'm wondering if some of your own investments are in drugs companies lol ;) ( not prying, just commenting :))
 
zand said:
Now I'm wondering if some of your own investments are in drugs companies lol ;) ( not prying, just commenting :))
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Antibiotics, painkillers, anesthetic, vaccines, anitvirals, chemo therapy, insulin.........
I would have no issue in investing in drug companies.
 
bulkbiker said:
Drug companies spend thousands every year wining and dining doctors and other HCP's as well as sponsoring trials which are published so long as they support the drug company's product. They exist to make money for their shareholders not to benefit mankind ( unless that also benefits their shareholders).
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Before i retired I worked as a head of profession in childrens mental health services. You always knew when the drug reps had been to "meet" with the psychiatrists because all manner of food goodie ( mostly unhealthy carb fests) would suddenly appear at reception and the psychiatrists would have new "toys" on show on their desks ranging from things like laser pointers for computer presentations, mugs, post it holders, pens, etc etc covered in the drug companies name. I heard talk of rather more expensive goodies ( laptops, conference attendence pakages etc etc ) that werent on show Also they were funding catering venue hire etc for conferences the trust were puttng on, even after there was a directive to accept nothing from drug reps because of the conflict of interest issues they raised.
 
badcat said:
Before i retired I worked as a head of profession in childrens mental health services. You always knew when the drug reps had been to "meet" with the psychiatrists because all manner of food goodie ( mostly unhealthy carb fests) would suddenly appear at reception and the psychiatrists would have new "toys" on show on their desks ranging from things like laser pointers for computer presentations, mugs, post it holders, pens, etc etc covered in the drug companies name. I heard talk of rather more expensive goodies ( laptops, conference attendence pakages etc etc ) that werent on show Also they were funding catering venue hire etc for conferences the trust were puttng on, even after there was a directive to accept nothing from drug reps because of the conflict of interest issues they raised.
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You should have been there when the builders came around to bid on the contract to build the place initially!
You'd probably have driven away in a Jag to a holiday in the Seychelles.
 
bulkbiker said:
How many of those were discovered by drugs companies?
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Well, I guess you're bright enough to get your moldy bread out then?
And while I really sincerely hope you never, ever need it, good luck on finding your own isotopes, or anti aids retro virals, and milking your herd of pigs for insulin, or chewing a willow tree when you have a headache.
(Flush your aspirin now!)
Then you can really stand by your " nobler than thou" principles.
If you don't, no offense, but don't you think you'd be a complete sell out otherwise?
 
douglas99 said:
Well, I guess you're bright enough to get your moldy bread out then?
And while I really sincerely hope you never, ever need it, good luck on finding your own isotopes, or anti aids retro virals, and milking your herd of pigs for insulin, or chewing a willow tree when you have a headache.
(Flush your aspirin now!)
Then you can really stand by your " nobler than thou" principles.
If you don't, no offense, but don't you think you'd be a complete sell out otherwise?
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As usual you have attacked me rather than answered the question.
I have no problems with Pharma companies making money.
However they are not doing it for the greater good of the human race.
They have made relatively few discoveries but have indeed developed the discoveries of others with great profits for their shareholders and large salaries for their CEO's.
Insulin is a great example. So far as I know it was not patented by those who discovered its efficacy but instead Eli Lilley and Noro Nordisk took the discovery and tweaked it, mass produced it and made billions in profits from it. Was that really what Banting et al wanted?
 
bulkbiker said:
As usual you have attacked me rather than answered the question.
I have no problems with Pharma companies making money.
However they are not doing it for the greater good of the human race.
They have made relatively few discoveries but have indeed developed the discoveries of others with great profits for their shareholders and large salaries for their CEO's.
Insulin is a great example. So far as I know it was not patented by those who discovered its efficacy but instead Eli Lilley and Noro Nordisk took the discovery and tweaked it, mass produced it and made billions in profits from it. Was that really what Banting et al wanted?
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No idea.
What did he do to distribute insulin to the masses?
Did he set up the labs, which "big pharma" did a torch and pitchfork job on?
 
Really?
douglas99 said:
Antibiotics, painkillers, anesthetic, vaccines, anitvirals, chemo therapy, insulin.........
I would have no issue in investing in drug companies.
Click to expand...


I'd recommend some further reading or, if that's too much effort, watch a few investigative documentaries on the corrupt connections and influences between drug companies and health care organisations, including the NHS and, guess what, even cancer organisations and diabetes organisations.

There is overwhelming evidence that none of it is in the interest of "curing" or even "treating" medical disorders. It is all in the interest of promoting their own products or that of connected affiliates for the purpose of capitalism. For instance, this forum is sponsored (funded) by Janssen pharmaceutical, a subsidy of Johnson and johnson - who have been convicted of felony fraudulent marketing and bribery in the USA and been sued in class action suits for a drug they produced called Risperidone. They paid out over 3$ billion and the last suit in Philladelphia cost them 7$ million. Take a look also into the connections between drug companies and the meat and dairy industries - note how even this forum promotes foods which are actually counter effective to diabetes eg processed food and meat. Because antibiotics are sold and used in those industries to produce greater volumes of meat in a shortened space of time, once again we see self interest and not interest in well being of human kind, or even the environment or animal welfare for that matter.

So many ailments can be prevented and treated purely by a healthier diet and lifestyle. But people don't do this. They buy into the psychiatric industries, which is just about drug peddling and not about curing or preventing anything. I say this from first hand experience and from knowing others in care and health care industries who have seen drugs being used just to sedate and shut up people in the system, not to help them get better.

So rather than blindly say you would happily sponsor drug companies because you believe that they help treat people, I would recommend doing a bit of research and digging deep before making that decision. I'm sure there are probably some companies who do genuinely help treat people's conditions but unfortunately those are few and far between. I'm not being critical by the way, just raising awareness.
 
Bashing drug companies is easy to do but I never hear anyone suggesting how it should be different. No one can afford to work for free, all those scientists, factories, the delivery drivers who take your medicines to the pharmacy have their own bills to pay. You must have a very skewed view of the world if you think every single one of those people is sat around cackling thinking about how they can screw over sick people. I would also argue that industry, driven by its need to make a profit is often far more efficient than academia at actually getting stuff out the door in a usable and affordable format (I agree some drugs are prohibitively expensive but companies are aware there is a cut off on what people can and will pay). I am quite happy to say there are problems with the things big Pharma does (Particularly in the marketing of drugs which is a dark place), but don't for a second imagine that the organic kale producer down the road doesn't have it's own vested interests. So genuinely: how else should we be doing this?
 
badcat said:
Before i retired I worked as a head of profession in childrens mental health services. You always knew when the drug reps had been to "meet" with the psychiatrists because all manner of food goodie ( mostly unhealthy carb fests) would suddenly appear at reception and the psychiatrists would have new "toys" on show on their desks ranging from things like laser pointers for computer presentations, mugs, post it holders, pens, etc etc covered in the drug companies name. I heard talk of rather more expensive goodies ( laptops, conference attendence pakages etc etc ) that werent on show Also they were funding catering venue hire etc for conferences the trust were puttng on, even after there was a directive to accept nothing from drug reps because of the conflictrepresentative for a conference of interest issues they raised.
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Your comment about funding catering for conferences etc is so true. I was a User Representative at a symposium discussing Desmond and Daphne structured education courses, and that was heavily funded by a major drugs supplier. There was no attempt to offer diabetic compatible food, and there were no sweetners for the coffee. Loads of toys etc all with logo prominent, But I forget the drugs company name (selective memory?. more like defective memory LOL)

Actually, while I was there a T1D sitting next to me who was asked to step outside to use their injector pen. I was very surprised at that.
 
You may be interested by the Alltrials petition, http://www.alltrials.net/find-out-more/why-this-matters/the-alltrials-campaign/

The AllTrials campaign
Doctors and regulators need the results of clinical trials to make informed decisions about treatments.

But companies and researchers can withhold the results of clinical trials even when asked for them. The best available evidence shows that about half of all clinical trials have never been published, and trials with negative results about a treatment are much more likely to be brushed under the carpet [1].

This is a serious problem for evidence based medicine because we need all the evidence about a treatment to understand its risks and benefits. If you tossed a coin 50 times, but only shared the outcome when it came up heads and you didn’t tell people how many times you had tossed it, you could make it look as if your coin always came up heads. This is very similar to the absurd situation that we permit in medicine, a situation that distorts the evidence and exposes patients to unnecessary risk that the wrong treatment may be prescribed.​
 
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