Can we try to fix this?

How can you make all this right now desi? I have emails coming out my ears, people are angry at this latest development, and are being very vocal about it. I'm just glad I'm not admin or a mod here, this is going to get worse, I can feel it. The strength of feeling is massive, and I have not read a message I disagree with so far.

desidiabulum

I understand why people are starting to leave,

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No, they are not leaving. They have been banned. No choice, no redress, no ability to defend themselves.

suppose the suspensions are lifted, as we saw yesterday with Defren's unfair ban, what then? It can happen again, for no apparent reason.

It is very sad.

Defren was very gracious in her forgiveness, in my opinion, and promptly threw herself back into helping others. But now we have 4 people banned in one fell swoop. Its worrying.

Your post asks for a solution that can only come from admin.

Admin have either :

1 made some decisions they regret, but don't know a way back
2 acted in a way they feel is okay
3 are being leant on

Only 1 offers some hope, perhaps through dialogue with regular forum posters (privately, for obvious reasons) so that grievances can be aired.

I'm not holding my breath. This forum has a sad history. It's time to man up or ban up.

Geoff (proud to call the banned members my friends)

I dont know how forums like this work. Have the mods got a superior? I dont know who own and runs the site. Does anyone know this? Perhaps the owner(s) could intervene, just this once, and clarify things?

lucylocket61 said:

I dont know how forums like this work. Have the mods got a superior? I dont know who own and runs the site. Does anyone know this? Perhaps the owner(s) could intervene, just this once, and clarify things?

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Not likely on a Friday evening Lucy.

I am not planning on going anywhere just yet.

But I think some principles have been transgressed by banning people in such a way, and I have my own personal issue with the mods which I am still waiting to be satisfactorily dealt with.

desidiabulum said:

Maybe I can't Defren, but I want to try. The forum has been so valuable for me and so many others that I can't bear to see it disintegrate like this without doing what I can. I don't think the UK diabetic community should have to go through another split and recriminations and rival forums. I'm sure a lot of members don't understand these quarrels and just wnat them to go away. I honestly do not think that these are disagreements about major principles -- there are misunderstandings, misreadings, and very real offence given and taken, but not fundamental differences of opinion. I know that there is an elephant in the room relating to divisions and disputes outside the forum, and that this has often inflamed positions, but in my opinion these disputes should remain outside the forum where they belong.
Geoff -- I am trying to intervene with admin through pm.
Please, Defren, Geoff, Lucy, Shop, Ladybird, Mileana etc -- try to hold on while there's still a chance of trying to negotiate something.

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I will say this publicly, you have my support. I can only say what is coming to me via email and it aint pretty. I wish I could be more optimistic, but people are angry - very angry.

I have no plans to go, but admin's behaviour is bringing this on them.
I won't stay 'quietly' or sit by while injustice goes on. Here's why :

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.
Then they came for the socialists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak for me.

So future banning won't surprise me.

Geoff ("I have a voice !" The King's Speech)

There is a facebook page too if you want to speak the diabetes.co.uk direct - perhaps this is a way of getting in touch

Can I just say as a newbee - please stop all this. Please, all take some time to think (members and mods etc) I know feelings are running high to say the least, most of what has gone on I fail to really understand. It seems as though there are people arguing round and round to no apparent good. I have been reading most of the posts on this site each day and haven't seen anything that should have caused offence or fear to anyone. So why did all this start in the first place - no don't tell me I don't want to start it all off again. There is obviously a lot going on behind the scenes which most of the membership are not party to. So its all confusing and saddening. The last few days has left me, and I am sure has left others, feeling that we had better not ask anything because someone is going to jump down our throats. This site has given thousands of people help and support through its more experienced members so its absolute stupidity to start banning them, they are the mainstay of the site. The stuff that has been written over the last few days, its arguments and anger, is more scary than this b***dy disease. PLEASE just STOP and take some time to calm down.

Halfpint:

The last few days has left me, and I am sure has left others, feeling that we had better not ask anything because someone is going to jump down our throats

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I agree with you, thats how I feel. But, until we can get the moderators and admin to clarify the situation, we wont know what is, and is not acceptable. So I dont think it can stop just yet. Once we have clear rules and guidelines, we can breathe easy again about posting.

Can you think of it as a sorting out, rather than a war?

I dont know what I can and cannot post at the moment, riding this out to get clarity will be worth it for the relief of knowing we wont get banned for something we didnt know was wrong to post, wont it?

sending hugs and calming thoughts to you.

Thanks lucylocket61 - I think I will just not log on for a few days, I will wait and see what left middle of next week.

lucylocket61 said:

Halfpint:

The last few days has left me, and I am sure has left others, feeling that we had better not ask anything because someone is going to jump down our throats

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I agree with you, thats how I feel. But, until we can get the moderators and admin to clarify the situation, we wont know what is, and is not acceptable. So I dont think it can stop just yet. Once we have clear rules and guidelines, we can breathe easy again about posting.

Can you think of it as a sorting out, rather than a war?

I dont know what I can and cannot post at the moment, riding this out to get clarity will be worth it for the relief of knowing we wont get banned for something we didnt know was wrong to post, wont it?

sending hugs and calming thoughts to you.

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This is the problem at this moment, any one of us could be banned for saying something we didn't know we shouldn't say. Clarity and clear rule infraction punishments need to be made and made clearly. A wishy washy approach will leave people more confused than ever.

This whole thing should never have happened, it's making a mockery of a self help forum. My feelings are with newbies who have no idea what the hell is going on and why. This should never have got this far, and take it from me, that is the sentiment of most of the higher volume posters. What a tragedy this has all become.

It is very true that mebers of any forum need to know the rules and also the ethos of he forum Moderators have to deal with problems as they arise but generally people end to lnow where they stand.

I have beeen absolutely shocked by recent happenings here. This business of baning people for "offences" committed some ime ago which were not notified at the time {or so I understand} smacks of some totalitarian regiime .
The while obvious trolls are allowed to flourish and are even supported by the mods!
Posters are grumbling because they don't get heir ususal service from the voluntary advisors here who have been banned,
people have enjooyed this forum as a place where they could get good tips and advice from fellow diabetics and exchange ideas. At least with those with open minds.

I am sure people do not want o leave but why should they stay? The hert has gone out of it?
I feel somewhat sorry for benedict. I am sure he leaves he day o day running of the forum to others and doesn' have he time o spare o deal with unnecessary and meaningless disputes.

Hello to ALL you people, i have never had very much to say on here a\t all but used it to learn about my condition,I will be very sad to see so many people leave whose advice I have read and tried to use the [parts that I thought would help me. come on you good people just shake hands and forget what has gone on ,its in the past.I for one dont wamt to see so many knowlegable people leave , I might miss some more help that I may need ?

D'you know what makes me the maddest?

I'd bet a weeks wages that these people have been banned NOT for what they have posted in the forum, but for what they have expressed to mods, or admin, or benedict in PM's. Probably AFTER being contacted by those very people.

That is just plain stupid. PM's do NOT effect the overall integrity of the forum.

I had a post, well several posts removed as well.

I accept my moderation in the spirit I believe it was intended. No qualms about it at all.

I don't appear to have a ban, I will continue to post if I find something I feel may be of interest to others.

I will continue to post words of encouragement (when I remember to be nice, by nature a bit of a curmudgeon).

Never mind, soon be Christmas.

Defren said:

This is the problem at this moment, any one of us could be banned for saying something we didn't know we shouldn't say. Clarity and clear rule infraction punishments need to be made and made clearly. A wishy washy approach will leave people more confused than ever.

This whole thing should never have happened, it's making a mockery of a self help forum. My feelings are with newbies who have no idea what the hell is going on and why. This should never have got this far, and take it from me, that is the sentiment of most of the higher volume posters. What a tragedy this has all become.

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And here in lies the problem.

Look, we need to stand back here and cooly take stock and make sure we all understand the facts. Forums, unfortunately, are not democracies; joining a forum is not like joining a club or society, where you pay your dues and get to elect a committee and, thereafter, hold them accountable. They are proprietary spaces where administrators, moderators and owners are accountable to no-one. That is the problem - accountability. Any forum, whether it is for diabetes, or any other subject of interest, will only reflect the biases and prejudices of the owners and moderation team.

This situation is a mess, but the management team have only themselves to blame. For example, Anna locked a thread recently because she did not agree with some of the comments made therein. Why did she take such a high-handed approach? Does she not feel that forum members are important stakeholders? This is really disappointing, because it was she who persuaded me to stay following a previous clumsy attempt at moderation by another moderator (who has since resigned)! At no point was there any leadership or openness about the issues. There is no clear ethos that sets the tone and framework for how people interact with each other. Throughout all of this, the team have remained silent and that is unacceptable.

Diabetes is a potentially serious and life-threatening condition if it is not managed and treated. The irony is, if it is properly controlled, and if diabetics look after themselves and take responsibility for their wellbeing, people with diabetes do live full, long, healthy lives. The tragedy in all of this, is that we haven't been able to convey that message, and to convey the consequences of not managing it well, in a fair and balanced manner. To do that means there has to be integrity and leadership at the top and I think that is lacking, sadly.

Dave